The now-enacted will of (some of) the people

[Follyfoot]

29 minutes ago, blandy said:

Not even the Government, not even Bunter, think "it might be OK". It will not be OK.

The Deal, the one almost reached is extremely poor and harmful for the UK. No deal is worse than that. Further, "No deal" is only No deal on the 31st of Dec. After that, there's going to have to be a deal(s). These deals will be worse than what we have now, for the remaining 2 weeks.

It's not going to completely wreck the country (just yet). It's just going to make things worse. They're already not great - what with the fungus ravaging the economy and people's health and jobs.

Regardless of deal or no deal, thousands and thousands of jobs are going to go over the next few years, companies are going to leave and not invest in the UK, prices are going to rise, fruit and veg is going to be left unpicked, Finance is going to move abroad to Frankfurt and Amsterdam and Paris and so on. Tax revenue will fall...

Likely break up of the UK.

It all sounds like dramatic overstatement, but it's not. This stuff is all in the Government', the Brexity Government's knowledge and analysis. A year ago, Johnson was saying that No deal would be a massive failure of leadership, and now he's pursuing it, or if not pursuing it, making it a severe risk.

The government know all this, the media know it, we know it. All there is now is attempt to point blame away from the culprits, attempts to kid folk for a little bit longer, some short term denial and refusal to face facts. If it makes you or anyone else feel better for a bit, then good for you.

Go back a year or 4 and this is so far from what was promised to leavers and remainers alike, so far away from Cake and eat it, 350 million a week for the NHS, that you should be furious with the throbbing whoppers, grifters, opportunists crooks and liars who are actively harming the UK.

I respect your opinion as much or even more than anybody on this site, I will review where we are on this day next year, As a father it concerns by massively and hope and pray your interpretation is wrong, ok? But honestly people having a go at friends and family who voted for Brexit as was suggested by somebody further up the post, What the hell is this all about

Edited December 13, 2020 by Follyfoot

[bickster]

10 minutes ago, Follyfoot said:

I respect your opinion as much or even more than anybody on this site, I will review where we are on this day next year, As a father it concerns by massively and hope and pray your interpretation is wrong, ok? But honestly people having a go at friends and family who voted for Brexit as was suggested by somebody further up the post, What the hell is this all about

There is no point is waiting for a bomb to land on your head before you decide to take cover.

And people who voted for this shit have to own this shit, they have to realise the harm they done to everyone and everyone's future, otherwise there's no way back.

[markavfc40]

1 hour ago, chrisp65 said:

So, do you think it could work out ok?

If you do, that’s absolutely fine, I’d be interested to know what you’ve seen or heard that could lead you to think it’ll be a positive experience for the masses.

@Follyfoot Chris asked you the above question earlier and as it is as rare as rocking horse shit, certainly over the last few months, to see someone on this thread seemingly not thinking Brexit is going to do grave damage to this country, then I'd genuinely be interested as to why you think it could work out ok.

[StefanAVFC]

19 minutes ago, Follyfoot said:

 But honestly people having a go at friends and family who voted for Brexit as was suggested by somebody further up the post, What the hell is this all about

I dont do this but my case, living in the EU Brexit directly affects my rights and risks my way of living, and for what benefit? So I would not be annoyed if someone in my position chose to be angry and have a go  

Edited December 13, 2020 by StefanAVFC

[mjmooney]

1 hour ago, Follyfoot said:

Do not underestimate the resilience  of the British people

Wouldn't it just have been easier to be resilient to straight bananas? 

[mjmooney]

20 minutes ago, Follyfoot said:

But honestly people having a go at friends and family who voted for Brexit as was suggested by somebody further up the post, What the hell is this all about

It's about the rest of us being **** ING ANGRY about what the stupid bastards have done to us. Does that answer your question? 

[Follyfoot]

2 minutes ago, mjmooney said:

It's about the rest of us being **** ING ANGRY about what the stupid bastards have done to us. Does that answer your question? 

No

[chrisp65]

46 minutes ago, Follyfoot said:

In all fairness Chris there can be no positives from this year at all, Please let me know of any similar year in the last 200 years? Covid and Brexit, what a lovely combination. Yes Boris and Cummings et al are lying toads but how is this a surprise, In our lifetime Aitken with his sword of truth and shield of justice, going to war on the basis of a college thesis, Tarzan and Westlands, Parkinson and Keays and on and on....

I don’t think there have been similar years.

Yes, we’ve had pandemics, we’ve had wars, we’ve had economic collapses and the oil crisis. But I don’t think they’ve ever been quite so self inflicted before. We haven’t been forced in to Brexit by unforeseen circumstances, or by third party events, we have voluntarily raced in to it, literally before we even decided what it meant. We’ve had multiple opportunities to pause and take stock, but decided that would be close to treason and have chosen to keep on running towards the edge.

Individual politicians have always been sleazy, be it money, or power, or sex. I don’t think, in my lifetime they’ve ever previously operated quite so openly to milk the system. Yes, they used to claim expenses for third homes and for duck houses in moats. But we’ve gone from that, to hundreds of millions. To ministers, such as the current Sec of State for Wales openly accepting tens of thousands of pounds to ‘help with election expenses’ from Russian and Ukrainian millionaires. PPE companies giving ‘consultancy’ positions to MP’s and then ‘winning’ hundred million pound tenders. Tenders it turns out, that were not tenders, but direct awards. It’s corruption, they are stealing on our credit card.

As it happens, there is potentially a positive. We might actually have some of the smaller UK nations realising they should be more in control of their own destiny and be less reliant on Westminster for crumbs from the table. It’s a risk, I think there will soon be a strong effort to put a stop to this, starting with the Internal Market Bill, designed to put Westminster back in control. But that’s the possible positive in the long game if we’re lucky. 

 

[ml1dch]

33 minutes ago, Follyfoot said:

But honestly people having a go at friends and family who voted for Brexit as was suggested by somebody further up the post, What the hell is this all about

Depends how far "having a go" really goes. Punching them? No, of course not. Yelling at them? Probably not.

Thinking they are a prick and probably choosing to not leave my kids alone with them? Absolutely.

The animosity should be saved for the 2019 voters though. The 2016 vote is pretty forgivable. People who have sat through the last four years and doubled down on it this time last year, they are the real scumbags in this story.

There are reasonable excuses for 2016. Right now is the 100%, no-grey-area, inevitable consequence of a 2019 Tory election win. And anyone who voted for that, voted with their eyes wide open for what happens in January. 

Edited December 13, 2020 by ml1dch

[Davkaus]

In an alternate reality:

• We'd have given the EU credit for its positives instead of spending decades blaming it for our own government's failings and letting half-arsed journos make up lies to sell papers (like the current PM, for example)
• If we still had enough people wanting to leave anyway, we'd have asked a more meaningful referendum question
• If we didn't ask a meaningful question, we'd have spent some time actually reflecting on the answer and deciding next steps instead of blinding invoking article 50 and starting the clock
• If we stupidly started the clock without knowing what we wanted, we'd hurriedly establish a position that could be agreed on within the UK government, that didn't violate the rules of the EU, as that's a complete non starter

Yet here we are. All we can do now is sit back, watch what happens, and I hope at some point hold the people who did this fully accountable. But we won't. 

 

Imagine, just *imagine* how the feckless politicians overseeing this farce would have reacted in 2015/2016 if we'd suggested "and then you'll probably need to send some navy gunships out to ward off French fishermen". 

[Follyfoot]

7 minutes ago, ml1dch said:

Depends how far "having a go" really goes. Punching them? No, of course not. Yelling at them? Probably not.

Thinking they are a prick and probably choosing to not leave my kids alone with them? Absolutely.

The animosity should be saved for the 2019 voters though. The 2016 vote is pretty forgivable. People who have sat through the last four years and doubled down on it this time last year, they are the real scumbags in this story.

There are reasonable excuses for 2016. Right now is the 100%, no-question end result of a 2019 Tory election win. And anyone who voted for that, voted with their eyes wide open for what happens in January. 

Why would you not leave your kids in the trust of a friend who has a different opinion from you? There’s quite a few of my friends who have some really bizarre views But I would trust them with my life, a trust that has been built up over decades. 

Edited December 13, 2020 by Follyfoot

[StefanAVFC]

It isnt just a difference in opinion though is it?

It's a massive massive change to all of our lives at nearly every level. Its reasonable to be wary of those who voted for it and continue to cheerlead it after 4 years of complete wank. 

[ml1dch]

6 minutes ago, Follyfoot said:

Why would you not leave your kids in the trust of a friend who has a different opinion from you? There’s quite a few of my friends who have some really bizarre views But I would trust them with my life, a trust that has been built up over decades. 

Because I wouldn't have trust in them. If they've shown that they are happy to take decisions that will ruin or risk other peoples' lives then you take extra precautions around people like that.

I know people with a history of drink-driving. I wouldn't leave them with them either. 

[sidcow]

2 hours ago, Follyfoot said:

I am putting it out there simply because nobody but nobody on this thread in the last 30 or 40 pages has possibly thought it might be okay. It is extremely unhealthy for everybody to have the same opinion, I appreciate reading all the stuff that everybody puts up about what a **** up BREXIT will be, I am just adding some much-needed balance. Don’t worry I’ve got my tin hat on and expect barrage of abuse for it but it is what it is

I think if you look at the comments from 95% of economists and academics they all say its going to be a disaster. The remaining 5% are hardened brexiteers.

Thinking it's all going to work out OK is like believing that miniscule number of "medically qualified" people who say vaccines are dangerous and ignoring the vast majority of medical professionals who think they are a good thing. 

As has been said on here before the "Australia" rules are a complete red herring because they hardly trade with the EU at all and instead mostly trade with nations in their locality who they have deals with.   It's like basing the vast majority of your exports and imports on a model used for tiny niche (and therefore probably very wide margin) areas of trade. 

[bannedfromHandV]

To overcome Brexit you must first become Brexit.

[ml1dch]

5 minutes ago, sidcow said:

As has been said on here before the "Australia" rules are a complete red herring because they hardly trade with the EU at all and instead mostly trade with nations in their locality who they have deals with.   

It's also a(nother) lie. Australia has several trade facilitation agreements with the EU.

[sidcow]

I've just been reading through the various newspaper sites and noticed that the Daily Express were running a poll to vote if we are right to continue negotiating a deal of if we should withdraw now.  I voted on it to see the result and it came out as 95% of people thought we should call it off now. 

I mean how much of a **** can you be? 

Even when there is still a chance to get a deal that will ensure prosperity for our nation, you think we should just throw it away? 

Honestly, words fail me. I think some people just think we're playing a bit of a risky strategy in a game of monopoly. 

[Genie]

1 minute ago, sidcow said:

I've just been reading through the various newspaper sites and noticed that the Daily Express were running a poll to vote if we are right to continue negotiating a deal of if we should withdraw now.  I voted on it to see the result and it came out as 95% of people thought we should call it off now. 

I mean how much of a **** can you be? 

Even when there is still a chance to get a deal that will ensure prosperity for our nation, you think we should just throw it away? 

Honestly, words fail me. I think some people just think we're playing a bit of a risky strategy in a game of monopoly. 

People don’t grasp that it’ll hurt them. It’s like American’s obsessed with wars because it’s always a long way from their front door.

This is real and will bite at everyone. 

[markavfc40]

8 minutes ago, Genie said:

People don’t grasp that it’ll hurt them. 

 

That is the bottom line. It is as simple as people not realising the consequences of all this on them. 

It is already becoming very clear though that when the shit hits the fan those that voted for it will blame the EU and even have the brass bollocks to blame those who voted remain and have all along predicted what would happen. 

[blandy]

1 hour ago, bickster said:

people who voted for this shit have to own this shit

To a point. Maybe I’m soft, but an awful lot of people who don’t have time to follow every political angle or analysis were misled to the extent that they trusted people who we know to be liars. Remain lied too. Not everyone who voted leave is guilty. That’s like blaming the victims of fraud, not the fraudsters. Humans are able to manipulated by other humans, just as we are able to be robbed or hurt.

The other thing that is a known phenomenon is how it can be hard to fool someone into believing something untrue, but it is science fact that then trying to get them believe they have been tricked is even harder. The way our minds work is once something gets embedded, it’s really really difficult to reverse that view, even when facing clear evidence.

The blame, all of it lies with the Liars, conmen, grifters, profiteers, deluded little Englanders, left wing and right wing anti-EU ideologues, the slacker Cameron, the divot May, who were the proponents, sales people and architects of this shit-show.

They caused it. The voters were fooled as much as fools.