The now-enacted will of (some of) the people

[bickster]

20 minutes ago, ml1dch said:

I remember reading shortly after the vote that there is quite a lot of resentment in the area towards Nissan workers, going back years. That they are the elitist "good job" types, looking down on everyone else. Presumably nonsense, but your average chip-on-the-shoulder leaver isn't really known for their critical thinking. Or how a local economy functions.

So it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of those Nissan workers are in that 39%.

I seem to remember that there were a few stories around at the time suggesting otherwise. I seem to recall it went along the lines of the bosses said to vote remain so they voted leave

[Genie]

10 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

Yeah, and that’s why we have to be careful when it’s too easy to look at the vote, see some town voted leave or tory or some other stupid decision and just condemn the lot of them.

I agree, but saying that there must have been a good chunk of Nissan workers voting leave. At least 1/3 surely?

[sidcow]

4 hours ago, Genie said:

Yet if tomorrow the UK declared war on France for whatever reason an awful lot of the population would be thrilled.

They've been too quiet for too long. We've been at war with the French for 800 years, don't let the last 100 years or so fool you. 

[blandy]

3 hours ago, meregreen said:

I’m old enough to remember the Icelandic Cod Wars. Both countries had a naval presence. We had state of the art destroyers, much larger than the Icelandic gunboats. They simply crossed the sterns of our trawlers and cut their nets. £10,000 quids worth of gear. 

Me too. You’re right. I could tell tales of visiting Iceland and leather clad blondes, the friendliness of the people  compared to what we were warned about, and about fisheries protection and stuff  politicians, people... different things

 

[HanoiVillan]

Absolutely risible

The provocative claim in the headline here is . . . the interpretation of 'one [unnamed] source'. Also another outing for the frequently-spotted formulation 'Boris Johnson has seized personal control of Britain's No Deal preparation'. Seized control, no less! Wrestled it away from someone else, he did, and don't think too hard about who would be responsible for giving control to somebody else in the first place.

[markavfc40]

I assume David Frost and the rest of the negotiators are on time and half on Saturday/double time on Sunday. They should have put them all on task and finish and this would have been sorted months ago.

It sounds like they are going round in circles but I still expect/hope UK blinks and we get a deal, all be it a diabolical substitute for what we are giving up.

[Genie]

8 hours ago, markavfc40 said:

They should have put them all on task and finish and this would have been sorted months ago.

They’ll all probably be part of the investigation into what went wrong and drag it out for about 4 years. 

[Genie]

Raab says that the EU are worried that the UK will do rather well. He doesn’t go ok to say how that’s possible though...

[chrisp65]

12 minutes ago, Genie said:

They’ll all probably be part of the investigation into what went wrong and drag it out for about 4 years. 

Yep, and of course, that investigation won’t start this side of an election, so the start won’t be for three years. The first year or so they’ll be working out the wording of the remit. The inquiry itself will take three or four years. That will then put the findings due on the next election, that’ll be kicked down the road.

So, I would say the inquiry will have a result around about 2028, and the result will be ‘there were many factors and variables and it could possibly have been handled better by several people at several points in time, but at the end of the day people voted for brexit and it was delivered’.

Lots of people will make lots of money out of the inquiry.

There’s every chance there will be an inquiry in to it.

Somewhere around 2032. Think I’m joking? Hillsborough.

 

[Davkaus]

9 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

Absolutely risible

The provocative claim in the headline here is . . . the interpretation of 'one [unnamed] source'. Also another outing for the frequently-spotted formulation 'Boris Johnson has seized personal control of Britain's No Deal preparation'. Seized control, no less! Wrestled it away from someone else, he did, and don't think too hard about who would be responsible for giving control to somebody else in the first place.

I used to be a supporter of the freedom of the press, but allowing this poison to be printed as news is outrageous.

[StefanAVFC]

8 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

I used to be a supporter of the freedom of the press, but allowing this poison to be printed as news is outrageous.

I'm with you. My tipping point was much earlier though, 'enemies of the people'

[StefanAVFC]

 

[StefanAVFC]

Sorry for spam, but separate points

[Davkaus]

It's become clear that they're not just accepting no deal, they're trying to ensure the public don't just accept it, but think it's a really good idea to show those **** germans who's boss.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Johnson flown to the next round of negotiations in a Spitfire, only to get out in a full 1966 England replica strip. 

Also, geniuses; it's still not Merkel and Macron you need to speak to. Jesus **** christ. 

Edited December 13, 2020 by Davkaus

[StefanAVFC]

9 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

Absolutely risible

The provocative claim in the headline here is . . . the interpretation of 'one [unnamed] source'. Also another outing for the frequently-spotted formulation 'Boris Johnson has seized personal control of Britain's No Deal preparation'. Seized control, no less! Wrestled it away from someone else, he did, and don't think too hard about who would be responsible for giving control to somebody else in the first place.

Inside as well

[StefanAVFC]

3 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

Also, geniuses; it's still not Merkel and Macron you need to speak to. Jesus **** christ. 

Well, yeah. But as with the Oven-Ready Deal stuff, Boris can just turn around and claim that he only wanted to call Macron and Merkel to wish them Merry Christmas, so when people point out that all trade talks come through the commission he can blame those awful Europeans.

[markavfc40]

I caught a bit of Andrew Marr interviewing Ed Miliband this morning and Marr kept waffling on about sovereignty and you could see Miliband was getting pissed off with him. As Miliband said you sign up to any deal you have will rules and obligations attached to it but that doesn't mean you have lost sovereignty as the sovereignty comes from the choice you had in signing up to that deal.

This whole sovereignty line is a red herring in fairness they are now clinging to as there is nothing else left. It is a bone to throw to the knuckle draggers though. 

[Davkaus]

1 minute ago, markavfc40 said:

I caught a bit of Andrew Marr interviewing Ed Miliband this morning and Marr kept waffling on about sovereignty and you could see Miliband was getting pissed off with him. As Miliband said you sign up to any deal you have will rules and obligations attached to it but that doesn't mean you have lost sovereignty as the sovereignty comes from the choice you had in signing up to that deal.

 

Obligatory reminder that we'd have only recently come to the end of chaos with Ed Miliband. What a good choice we made.

[Davkaus]

I honestly fear for next year, and don't think it'll take long for the big sections of the economy to come crumbling down.

We're not prepared at the border in any way - that test of French processes at the tunnel for 9 hours caused a 5 mile queue. It took hours to clear that queue once things restored to "normal", but that's not an option in January. Our haulage companies are ****. No two ways about it. Our manufacturers that rely on EU imports (pretty much all of them), are pretty ****, because getting things in to the country is either going to be significantly more expensive (air freight), or just slightly more expensive and a lot more unpredictable if they opt for road haulage. We'll pay a lot more even for that, due to the extra time, fuel and opportunity cost for lorries sitting in hours of traffic jams at the border. These changes along could be significant enough to send companies under that run at thin margins.

Even without covid joining up to make it a good old economic spit-roast, I think we'd be looking at a significant number of SMEs folding, and millions more unemployed over the next 6-12 months. It's not going to be pretty.

And on top of that, we'll be paying more for pretty much everything. Even without tariffs, and it looks incredibly likely there'll be extra costs due to tariffs, we'll be paying more for all of the wondrous red tape. Anything that gets driven in to the country is going to become more expensive, even if it has no tariffs applied.

Supermarkets have stockpiled supplies, but the panic buying is going to make March/April look trivial - and that was just logistical problems within supermarkets to get stock out on the shelves, there were few real shortages. It's not going to be so quick to recover this time.

 

[Genie]

3 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

I honestly fear for next year, and don't think it'll take long for the big sections of the economy to come crumbling down.

We're not prepared at the border in any way - that test of French processes at the tunnel for 9 hours caused a 5 mile queue. It took hours to clear that queue once things restored to "normal", but that's not an option in January. Our haulage companies are ****. No two ways about it. Our manufacturers that rely on EU imports (pretty much all of them), are pretty ****, because getting things in to the country is either going to be significantly more expensive (air freight), or just slightly more expensive and a lot more unpredictable if they opt for road haulage. We'll pay a lot more even for that, due to the extra time, fuel and opportunity cost for lorries sitting in hours of traffic jams at the border. These changes along could be significant enough to send companies under that run at thin margins.

Even without covid joining up to make it a good old economic spit-roast, I think we'd be looking at a significant number of SMEs folding, and millions more unemployed over the next 6-12 months. It's not going to be pretty.

And on top of that, we'll be paying more for pretty much everything. Even without tariffs, and it looks incredibly likely there'll be extra costs due to tariffs, we'll be paying more for all of the wondrous red tape. Anything that gets driven in to the country is going to become more expensive, even if it has no tariffs applied.

Supermarkets have stockpiled supplies, but the panic buying is going to make March/April look trivial - and that was just logistical problems within supermarkets to get stock out on the shelves, there were few real shortages. It's not going to be so quick to recover this time.

 

Basically the automotive industry is screwed. I can’t see how they can function.

180,000 direct jobs and 864,000 across the wider industry in the UK (according to SMMT)

£78.9b turnover and £15.3b to the UK economy hanging by a thread.

but the fish...