chrisp65 Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 (edited) 41 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: Corbyn should survive his no confidence vote and I still think it's possible we end up with a snap general election and a labour government as a result you laughed at me a couple of days ago because I said something about Corbyn being the more honest of the main politicians then you come out with Corbyn leading Labour to power by the end of the year! We won't understand 2016 for another 25 years when the papers are released and we finally realise the water had LSD in it the thing I'll be most disappointed with, Wales probably didn't even make it to the Euros, I've been sat here for 2 weeks in a Macedonia onesie Edited June 25, 2016 by chrisp65 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newry_Villan Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 (edited) The latest from Sinn Fein, posted on their Facebook one hour ago Quote The British government has no democratic mandate to represent the views of the north in any future negotiations with the EU. It is not acceptable that the north of Ireland will be taken out of the EU against its wishes. A referendum on Irish unity is now the only sensible path to ensure prosperity, progress and equality for everyone on this island. Irish Unity is in everyone’s interests. Join Sinn Féin and help make Irish unity a reality I am Irish and have always wanted a United Ireland so it will get a yes from me. But blimey this vote has really lit a bonfire under the UK, The DUP, who wanted to leave, could potentially lead the North, majority wanted to remain, into the collapse of the UK something they would be so set against. Edited June 25, 2016 by Newry_Villan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 It was obvious to anyone with any common sense at all, but it's an interesting reaction to the Tory MEP Dan Hannan's comments that of course there'll still be immigration from the EU. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 (edited) SDLP leader said much of the same thing. Nationalist politics in the north is suddenly awake again, and every election cycle in the forseeable future we'll no doubt see both parties saying 'a vote for us will get you a border poll'. Similarly, I want a united Ireland but: I don't for a second believe that the unionists will allow a vote unless they are absolutely sure they will win it; I don't think the Republic would want anything to do with us unless it benefited them economically; and finally I don't think the country is ready to be divided in that way again just yet. Another decade or so, let the youngsters growing up now get to a voting age, and maybe then it'll be passionate but still a democratic process. As it is, there are still too many elements out there who would use the poll and the subsequent divisions as an excuse for violence. One thing is for sure: both the English and the unionists have completely miscalculated what a leave vote means for NI, although in the case of the former I suspect it was less miscalculation and more just not giving a shit. Edited June 25, 2016 by CarewsEyebrowDesigner 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wazzap24 Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 20 minutes ago, markavfc40 said: It's a bit early to be on the sauce isn't it mate. I can't see there being an election any time soon but if there is then I see zero chance of a Labour victory. They are in a disarray, wiped out in Scotland and look like prime to lose a load of votes to UKIP in Labour heartlands if there was an election soon. The Tory party are a mess but Labour are a shambles. Their failure to provide a strong opposition has allowed the Tories to get away with murder. The Tories should be prime to be voted out but Labour are nothing like ready to take advantage and won't be any time soon. We desperately, desperately need a credible opposition with a strong, well thought out, anti austerity financial plan. Austerity wasn't working anyway, but now more than ever this country is going to need huge internal investment to stop another lost generation over the next decade. Transport, infrastructure, education, health - we need heavy investment in all of these areas and more to have any chance of succeeding. This government won't give us that, it will be more cuts and more austerity and they will just shift the blame from Labour to the referendum result. I like Corbyn as a man, but he must know he won't get elected and for that reason alone he should step down and help find someone who will. 12-18 months of pain and a new, stronger opposition - then we might just see the back of the Tories for sometime. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairy In Boots Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 1 hour ago, jon_c said: New York doesn't have access to the EU market but it obviously is used for access to the American market. Toyko, again is for access to the Asian markets. I don't know about you but I hope to still be alive in ten years time, and beyond that. It wouldn't surprise me if banking stays in London, but there is no way they won't be asking our government for all sorts of hand-outs, tax breaks and deals, as a precursor to staying. Of course they will, we've already established that bankers are a bunch of lying, unscrupulous b**tards. I mean one of them is the leader of UKIP. Definitely agree. It's up to us now to take all of our eggs out of that one basket and move them to other areas so we aren't as dependent on them. Leaving the EU doesn't solve all our problems it's the first step on a long road and hopefully for better not worse the bureaucracy that came with the EU is an obstacle we can now avoid in our quest for a better Britain. Julian Assange grouped it like this: It's grouped like this, right (wing) IN is a vote for the empire, right OUT is a vote for the old empire, left OUT is a vote for a new better world, left IN is a vote that a better world is not possible I agree with that although I'd describe myself as central in my political thinking on most things, swinging either side on various issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 Quote Leave campaigner Nigel Evans has denied immigration will fall after the UK voted to leave the EU. The Conservative MP said there had been some “misunderstanding” over the Leave campaign’s position on reducing immigration. It'd be funny if it wasn't so tragic. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 On the North, the imperative in negotiations must be to keep the border open without prejudice as it is now. If customs posts, security forces and barriers and the like re-emerge on border crossings, those things will be like flies to shit for any nascent Republican groups with a couple of AKs and semtex wishing to restart their war. Of course, the dreary steeples, green fields and hills of Fermanagh, Derry, Tyrone, Armagh and Down now constitute an international boundary between a jilted economic block and a paranoid, insular state. Goodness knows what nonsense either side will be proposing in the exit negotiations. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 20 minutes ago, Davkaus said: Leave campaigner Nigel Evans has denied immigration will fall after the UK voted to leave the EU. The Conservative MP said there had been some “misunderstanding” over the Leave campaign’s position on reducing immigration. 20 minutes ago, Davkaus said: It'd be funny if it wasn't so tragic. I am sure that if the Project Fear predictions come true and Brexit results in total economic meltdown, mass unemployment, and a barter system replacing the pound, then immigration would decrease, emigration would increase and net immigration would turn into mass depopulation of the UK. Several VT members have already claimed that they will leave. It depends which experts you choose to believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 (edited) 2 minutes ago, MakemineVanilla said: It depends which experts you choose to believe. None of them, surely? I've had enough of people who know things. It's funny how many of the claims of the leave campaign have been confirmed to be lies...sorry, misunderstandings within a day of the results being announced. It's a shame none of these misunderstandings were clarified before voting. Edited June 25, 2016 by Davkaus 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabby Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 Well if the uk falls apart and goes into recession post leaving the EU then immigration from EU wont be an issue as be no work in UK to attract people here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 3 minutes ago, Nabby said: Well if the uk falls apart and goes into recession post leaving the EU then immigration from EU wont be an issue as be no work in UK to attract people here It's all going to be fine. We don't know what we're doing, what kind of relationship we want with the EU, if any, who will be dealing with the exit process, or any of the long term consequences, but it's going to be fine, and we won't have anymore of those immigrants, and we'll have £350m a week for the NHS. Oh, forget those last two bits, but you'll be able to have the bendiest bananas that you can imagine. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted June 25, 2016 Moderator Share Posted June 25, 2016 4 minutes ago, Davkaus said: None of them, surely? I've had enough of people who know things. It's funny how many of the claims of the leave campaign have been confirmed to be lies...sorry, misunderstandings within a day of the results being announced. It's a shame none of these misunderstandings were clarified before voting. The press have embraced the phrase "Post factual democracy" following the referendum. Facts and evidence now play no part in attempts to influence voters - influence rather than education is the aim, and voters are presented with so many wildly opposing 'facts' that they stop using them as a guide to how to react and vote in situations. Politics has successfully removed the need for evidence from its responsibilities. The rather shameful way that Farage backed out of the £350m claim is the way forward, not an isolated incident. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 1 minute ago, OutByEaster? said: The press have embraced the phrase "Post factual democracy" following the referendum. Facts and evidence now play no part in attempts to influence voters - influence rather than education is the aim, and voters are presented with so many wildly opposing 'facts' that they stop using them as a guide to how to react and vote in situations. Politics has successfully removed the need for evidence from its responsibilities. The rather shameful way that Farage backed out of the £350m claim is the way forward, not an isolated incident. At least the political classes have been confronted with the consequences of having an uneducated population. The best thing about the college-educated is not that they know a lot of useless stuff, it is that they actually tend to agree with the government more than the minimally educated. Or so, one of the chapters in Superfreakonomics, concluded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMcKenna Posted June 25, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted June 25, 2016 4 minutes ago, markavfc40 said: It's a bit early to be on the sauce isn't it mate. I can't see there being an election any time soon but if there is then I see zero chance of a Labour victory. They are in a disarray, wiped out in Scotland and look like prime to lose a load of votes to UKIP in Labour heartlands if there was an election soon. The Tory party are a mess but Labour are a shambles. Their failure to provide a strong opposition has allowed the Tories to get away with murder. The Tories should be prime to be voted out but Labour are nothing like ready to take advantage and won't be any time soon. Mark as it stands you are right, Labour have no chance. I agree with some of Corbyns beliefs but he is unelectable. The only hope is that he is deposed as Leader and a more centrist leader is elected. I cannot see that happening given his mass grass roots supports. However IF it was managed somehow, I believe Labour could win as many will not support the Tories led by Johnson, especially now that their various pledges are unraveling. In my opinion, although immigration, sovereignty etc were the headline issues for Leave, the straw that broke for many low/unskilled workers and unemployed, the straw that broke the camels back was 9 years of austerity especially in the Midlands, North, Wales, East. It was the ultimate protest vote with the EU as the scapegoat. If Corbyn stays politics over the next X years will be more polarised towards the extremes of left and right than they have been in 5/6 decades. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted June 25, 2016 Moderator Share Posted June 25, 2016 I'm not sure a more centrist leader is needed - Corbyn's problem isn't policies - the nation is absolutely ready to embrace a real change - Corby's problem is that he doesn't look or sound like a PM - what the labour party needs is a pretty puppet, not a return to the Thatchers New Labour. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 16 hours ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: P.S. If the recession hits and I have to lay anyone off, it won't be the Polish guy. Because 1) He's solid and 2) It might mean he has to uproot his family and move to another country. British jobs for Polish workers... Who's with me? Come on Dave. Come to Poland. You know you want to! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_c Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 Jeremy Corbyn trying the dry use of facts to win over the electorate is painfully reminiscent of the Parks and Recreation episode when Leslie is trying to get Fluoride put in the water. He needs a Tom Haverford. The people don't what to listen to facts they want #TDazzle 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Risso Posted June 25, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted June 25, 2016 17 hours ago, sharkyvilla said: Just heard the word Swexit on the news I like Departugal and Czechout. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 3 minutes ago, MikeMcKenna said: Mark as it stands you are right, Labour have no chance. I agree with some of Corbyns beliefs but he is unelectable. The only hope is that he is deposed as Leader and a more centrist leader is elected. I cannot see that happening given his mass grass roots supports. However IF it was managed somehow, I believe Labour could win as many will not support the Tories led by Johnson, especially now that their various pledges are unraveling. In my opinion, although immigration, sovereignty etc were the headline issues for Leave, the straw that broke for many low/unskilled workers and unemployed, the straw that broke the camels back was 9 years of austerity especially in the Midlands, North, Wales, East. It was the ultimate protest vote with the EU as the scapegoat. If Corbyn stays politics over the next X years will be more polarised towards the extremes of left and right than they have been in 5/6 decades. As Janice Turner writes in the Times: "Why are we surprised the working class gave two fingers to a future of uncontrolled migration and zero-hours shifts?" With all other channels of protest removed by Thatcher and Blair, this is the first time the working class have had a chance to protest, and while the rest of us dismiss them as racists, what we are really saying is that they should like it or lump it. Having another reason for despising the working class, is the perfect excuse for not doing anything about their plight. The ignorant, racist Chav bastards! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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