The now-enacted will of (some of) the people

[Genie]

I read a while back that access to UK waters for EU fishermen was one of the snagging points. If push came to shove I’d expect we’d concede that (as we at least get access to EU water in return, it’s a fairly easy sell even if it was a vote leave policy to kick ‘em out).

Is it known what the other road blocks are?

[Enda]

3 minutes ago, Genie said:

I dunno, but every few weeks he makes a big fuss about getting “personally involved” in something he should have been involved in all along.

Like his kids’ lives?

[Enda]

1 minute ago, Genie said:

Is it known what the other road blocks are?

State aid and level playing field.

The EU bans state aid. We don’t want to compete with your industries if they are getting massive state subsidies. We want the UK to agree, formally, to play by the same No State Aid rules. The easiest way to implement that is make the UK agree to ECJ rulings on state aid cases. That’s unacceptable to Brexiteers for obvious political reasons.

After the Internal Market Bill fiasco there is no appetite to take HMG on its word that it will behave.

[LondonLax]

A free trade agreement is not the same as frictionless trade. A free trade agreement just deals with what tariffs should be charged on things. 

The sticking point for frictionless trade is whether the UK will continue to adopt EU regulations and oversight for anything it wants to export into the EU. Obviously they don’t (otherwise why have a Brexit in the first place) so that will mean that customs checks are required to make sure any dodgy goods are not getting through. 

Even if some sort of deal is agreed on trade there will still be the need for a hard border to check goods.  

 

[Enda]

16 minutes ago, LondonLax said:

A free trade agreement just deals with what tariffs should be charged on things. 

Not quite! That was true in 1920. Trade agreements in 2020 reflect the complexity of the world so they cover things like state aid (we'll ban goods they give a competitive advantage to), protection of intellectual property (no just ignoring our patents), climate change (we have a carbon tax, they should too), sanitary measures (no pumping hormones into your cattle), product standards ("Irish whiskey" can only come from Ireland, "Champagne" has to come from France, computers can't be produced with mercury, and TVs should not explode), remedies if the foreign government simply seizes a private factory, and some political objectives (e.g. bans on child labour), etc. The EU recently signed a deal with Vietnam. It's hundreds and hundreds of pages long.

That's just the trade deal between the EU and Vietnam. Frictionless trade requires the full EU rule book, i.e. the single market. You are absolutely correct that the more the UK wants to depart from the single market, the more checks there will have to be.

[LondonLax]

1 minute ago, Enda said:

Not quite! That was true in 1920. Trade agreements in 2020 reflect the complexity of the world so they cover things like state aid (we'll ban goods they give a competitive advantage to), protection of intellectual property (no just ignoring our patents), climate change (we have a carbon tax, they should too), sanitary measures (no pumping hormones into your cattle), product standards ("Irish whiskey" can only come from Ireland, "Champagne" has to come from France, computers can't be produced with mercury, and TVs should not explode), remedies if the foreign government simply seizes a private factory, and some political objectives (e.g. bans on child labour), etc. The EU recently signed a deal with Vietnam. It's hundreds and hundreds of pages long.

That's just the trade deal between the EU and Vietnam. Frictionless trade requires the full EU rule book, i.e. the single market. You are absolutely correct that the more the UK wants to depart from the single market, the more checks there will have to be.

Sure, the bit in bold was the crux of the point I was trying to make. 

There seems to be an idea amongst a lot of the people I see that ‘it will be fine, they will agree a deal at the last minute and we will all get on with our lives’.

However it ignores the fundamental reality that the whole point of Brexit is to diverge from the EU. Following that, if you diverge from the EU then the EU will need to check all your stuff before letting it in.

If you go on Google Earth and look at all the major roads into the EU on the eastern side they all have enormous truck parks and customs stations where stuff is checked and cleared before entering.

That is what will be needed in Kent (and potentially Northern Ireland ). Only for the UK there is a natural bottleneck at Dover for all trade, rather than hundreds of crossing points like on the eastern side of the EU.

[TheAuthority]

21 minutes ago, Enda said:

Not quite! That was true in 1920. Trade agreements in 2020 reflect the complexity of the world so they cover things like state aid (we'll ban goods they give a competitive advantage to), protection of intellectual property (no just ignoring our patents), climate change (we have a carbon tax, they should too), sanitary measures (no pumping hormones into your cattle), product standards ("Irish whiskey" can only come from Ireland, "Champagne" has to come from France, computers can't be produced with mercury, and TVs should not explode), remedies if the foreign government simply seizes a private factory, and some political objectives (e.g. bans on child labour), etc. The EU recently signed a deal with Vietnam. It's hundreds and hundreds of pages long.

That's just the trade deal between the EU and Vietnam. Frictionless trade requires the full EU rule book, i.e. the single market. You are absolutely correct that the more the UK wants to depart from the single market, the more checks there will have to be.

If I want my British TV to explode then that's my right as an Englander.

#Brexit

[HanoiVillan]

3 hours ago, Enda said:

Brits are primed to think the EU always reaches agreement at the last minute because they have decades of experience of UK media reports on European Council negotiations. The Council is when the German Chancellor and British PM and French President and all the other heads of state meet to trash things like budgets out. It’s a within-EU deal, and often goes to the wire. In the background everyone knows the budget needs to be agreed or the EU institutions stop functioning.

This time is different. The UK’s team are dealing with Barnier and the European Commission. From an EU perspective, we are negotiating with an outsider. A rival, even. There’s no common bond like there is within the Council, it’s not an internal matter. Even if there’s no deal, the ECJ will still have a budget to pay the judges’ wages.

And that’s before the fact that a trade deal will have to go to the European Parliament for approval. The Parliament will want at least a few days to review, more likely a few weeks.

Holding out to the last minute just isn’t going to work this time. The British public’s failure to understand the basics of how the EU functions (not necessarily including you, Genie) might bite them again.

Good post, but the bolded line isn't right. The British public's understanding is really neither here nor there at this point.

[Enda]

31 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

Good post, but the bolded line isn't right. The British public's understanding is really neither here nor there at this point.

Well, I suppose I’m assuming they wouldn’t swallow the government’s bull. Perhaps you’re right.

[StefanAVFC]

 

well

[desensitized43]

1 hour ago, StefanAVFC said:

 

well

This whole thing has been embarrassing from the start but this is such a low for the country.

[WhatAboutTheFinish]

On the plus side, maybe they'll want to get around to prosecuting the other 750+ infringement proceedings against the current member states before this gets to court?

*EU flavoured sauce

[Dodgyknees]

The EU taking legal action is exactly what Boris, helped by the media, need in order to push the “enemy of Britain” narrative.

Men with red faces and 8 Union Flags after their name on Twitter will be so mad.

[Enda]

5 minutes ago, WhatAboutTheFinish said:

On the plus side, maybe they'll want to get around to prosecuting the other 750+ infringement proceedings against the current member states before this gets to court?

*EU flavoured sauce

What’s the rush? EU can take their time.

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

1 hour ago, avfcDJ said:

The EU taking legal action is exactly what Boris, helped by the media, need in order to push the “enemy of Britain” narrative.

Men with red faces and 8 Union Flags after their name on Twitter will be so mad.

Same day as "Record Migrants numbers" make it to Dover last month,  then the EU takes GB to court.

It's all a terrible coincidence. 

[HanoiVillan]

bleurgh

"satire"

[chrisp65]

Ironically, it’s actually Leave.EU that have **** the kids.

[blandy]

4 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

bleurgh

"satire"

You appear to have misspelt "words removed"

[snowychap]

 

[snowychap]

including: