The now-enacted will of (some of) the people

[KentVillan]

 

[Xela]

9 hours ago, chrisp65 said:

If I wake up in the morning and Leyland haven’t announced they’re re launching the Triumph Toledo, I’m going to be properly pissed off.

[bickster]

Not a single pop was heard on Merseyside

[bickster]

10 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

It isn't. There is absolutely no chance whatsoever of us rejoining the EU, when it would involve joining the Euro, no rebate or opt-outs for anything.

'Rejoin' is dead on arrival.

5 years of Tory government.

5 years of natural death

5 years of the younger generation finding it harder to work abroad

5 years is an awfully long time in politics

Never say never

Even the Royal Family is going through some sort of existential crisis. The favourite son is a suspected paedo and grandkid number two has stuck two fingers up and walked away

A lot of things can happen before the next Election. Who knows even Labour might sort itself out.... ok I'm going too far now

[chrisp65]

16 minutes ago, bickster said:

Not a single pop was heard on Merseyside

Absolutely nothing here, not even the distant sound of a Valley with Stockholm syndrome.

[snowychap]

Torygraph (behind paywall

Quote

Boris Johnson is preparing to impose full customs and border checks on all European goods entering the UK after Brexit, in a ramping up of pressure on the coming EU-UK trade talks, the Telegraph has learned.

In a radical departure from pre-election ‘no deal’ planning that prioritised the smooth flow of goods into the UK from Europe, Whitehall departments have been told to prepare for imposing the full panoply of checks on EU imports to the UK.

The toughened approach, which is designed to give UK negotiators greater leverage against Brussels, came as Mr Johnson promised that Brexit would open an exciting new chapter “in our great national drama”.

...

“We are planning full checks on all EU imports - export declarations, security declarations, animal health checks and all supermarket goods to pass through Border Inspections Posts,” said a senior Whitehall source with knowledge of the plans. “This will double the practical challenge at the border in January 2021.”

...

UK negotiators hope the move will increase their leverage in the negotiation, raising the cost of a ‘WTO-exit’ for the EU. 

A senior EU source rejected the idea. “We saw similar threats from Theresa May, but frankly we never believed them. And if the UK is actually ready for border checks - which are indeed coming - then so much the better for both sides.”

...full article on link behind paywall

 

[tonyh29]

The lead singer at the gig I was at (Nigel Clark) made a reference at 23:00 to us  turning our back on 47 years of European peace and that was about it as far as my evening went 

didn’t hear any fireworks , though Tbf after a 3 am finish last night it feels like a few are going off in my head right about now 

[Seat68]

16 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

The lead singer at the gig I was at (Nigel Clark) made a reference at 23:00 to us  turning our back on 47 years of European peace and that was about it as far as my evening went 

didn’t hear any fireworks , though Tbf after a 3 am finish last night it feels like a few are going off in my head right about now 

You won't hear any fireworks at a Dodgy gig. Baddum tish. 

That said a rather apt song for the current floppy haired loon on at number 10. 

 

[Dr_Pangloss]

The people out 'celebrating' on Parliament Square are genuinely pathetic little creatures, utter cretins.

[HanoiVillan]

1 hour ago, bickster said:

5 years of Tory government.

5 years of natural death

5 years of the younger generation finding it harder to work abroad

5 years is an awfully long time in politics

Never say never

Even the Royal Family is going through some sort of existential crisis. The favourite son is a suspected paedo and grandkid number two has stuck two fingers up and walked away

A lot of things can happen before the next Election. Who knows even Labour might sort itself out.... ok I'm going too far now

Obviously you're right that we can 'never say never', and that I'm going too far to say 'absolutely no chance whatsoever'. It is theoretically possible. So is being invaded by Norway, but the probability seems pretty low.

Of the three potential factors you've mentioned there, the first point has a more natural remedy than rejoining the EU, the second will not build a permanent 'rejoin' majority for the same reason it doesn't build a permanent Labour majority, and the third factor, of young people lacking mobility around Europe, is literally a benefit for older people who have turned out to really resent mobility.

In 2016, when pushed to defend our EU membership, most politicians struggled. When they did, they highlighted the benefits that we, specifically, received - the rebate, the opt-out of Euro membership, the opt-out of Schengen, the fact that UK governments, over decades, built up a case that we had the benefits of membership but few of the costs. That didn't persuade enough people when we actually had them. We would not be in a position to negotiate any of that in the future.

'We' (where 'we' here is those broadly sympathetic to many of the things lost as part of our lost membership) will need to learn to fight for things again, in the British political arena. If what we want is labour mobility around Europe, we can argue for relaxed immigration requirements for citizens from those countries, and sign bilateral agreements enabling more two-way movement. We don't need EU membership for that; in fact it would be a highly-inefficient way of achieving that goal. But what we would need to do is win the debate first among the British public, and we're a long way from doing that now.

[StefanAVFC]

WHY O WHY are the BBC only challenging these views NOW? Rather than doing vox pops in Stoke and just nodding at this sheer ignorance.

[bickster]

I feel sorry for the workers obviously

and I'm not suggesting it is Brexit that has done this either (its a £300,000 tax bill). Two more of Mr Garner's businesses are also going pop

He's clearly just not very good at what he does but idiots wanted to believe his bullshit because he's a businessman, thing is, he's clearly a not very good businessman

[NurembergVillan]

Quote

In a statement, Garner said: “I’m devastated at the events over the last 24 hours and personally have lost everything. However, my thoughts are with the Norton team and everyone involved, from customers, suppliers and shareholders at this truly difficult time.

“Without dialogue Metro Bank appointed BDO administrators yesterday. We are now working positively and proactively with BDO to ensure Norton has the best possible chance to find a buyer. It has become increasingly difficult to manufacture in the UK, with a growing tax burden and ongoing uncertainties over Brexit affecting many things like, tariffs, exports and availability of funding.”

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/jan/30/taken-for-a-ride-how-norton-motorcycles-collapsed-amid-acrimony-and-scandal

I had a meeting with him about 18 months ago, and he was ferociously pro-Brexit.  Whether that was misguided, he saw something I didn't, or he was just enjoying being one the government's poster boys on international trade missions, I couldn't tell you.

I feel sad that such an iconic brand making incredible products has gone to the wall.

[bannedfromHandV]

1 hour ago, NurembergVillan said:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/jan/30/taken-for-a-ride-how-norton-motorcycles-collapsed-amid-acrimony-and-scandal

I had a meeting with him about 18 months ago, and he was ferociously pro-Brexit.  Whether that was misguided, he saw something I didn't, or he was just enjoying being one the government's poster boys on international trade missions, I couldn't tell you.

I feel sad that such an iconic brand making incredible products has gone to the wall.

The worrying thing is that this could be a trend we need to get used to over the next decade or longer.

British industry as a whole may suffer but on the flip side, there’ll be more McDonalds and Starbucks outlets.

[Tumblerseven]

I dont undestand this irish border issue the new protocol. Ive read on it still dont understand the **** thing..  

Can someone explain me this if EU and UK would terminate transition period and divorce without any trade deal would there be a hard border?

[bickster]

5 minutes ago, Tumblerseven said:

Can someone explain me this if EU and UK would terminate transition period and divorce without any trade deal would there be a hard border?

Undoubtetly yes. The EU would have no option but to erect one.

[Tumblerseven]

Thank u brickster thats what i thought.

So i watched a documentary movie brexit behind closed doors. And i keep remembering the scene when some british  delegates came to negotiate and they tried to blame potential hard irish border issue on the EU. They said we wont put any hard border so if border comes into existece its because of u and if anything happens is because of u the EU.

And i just watched Farage lbc show he talked about Boris Johnson his tomorow day speech in London to some EU ambasadors or delegates where hes planing to tell them that UK wont listen EU or follow EU courts decisions.  time stamp 4:15  

If that hapens and UK seriously wont follow something they agreed to im sure EU can and will terminate transitioning period. After that EU will have to put hard border in ireland and then im sure torries with journalists will blame EU for whatever happens. 

So im not british im from other EU country and if that happens and i fell it can happen that is really messed up.  That would damage EU and UK relationships big time.

 

 

 

[WhatAboutTheFinish]

58 minutes ago, Seat68 said:

Any word on British industry suffering as a whole and any potential flip side?

The latest forecasts from, proffers of doom, the IMF, have UK economic growth outperforming Japan, Germany, France and the Eurozone as whole, over the next two years. The only major developed nations we are lagging behind are Canada and the US.  I guess we can all use that in the overriding narrative of this thread as we see fit.

[bickster]

11 minutes ago, Tumblerseven said:

If that hapens and UK seriously wont follow something they agreed to im sure EU can and will terminate transitioning period. After that EU will have to put hard border in ireland and then im sure torries with journalists will blame EU for whatever happens. 

So im not british im from other EU country and if that happens and i fell it can happen that is really messed up.  That would damage EU and UK relationships big time.

You see none of that matters because we're free now... they had a party on Friday night to celebrate the fact that its all over and we're free, we are, we're free, it's bloody marvelous.

What the effin morons don't realise is, that it's only just beginning. As has been said by the remainers all along, the circles cannot be squared and the Tory Party is going to struggle massively to do what they say they are going to do.

This can go one of two ways as I see it

a. The Tories have to capitulate on virtually everything they've said and align themselves with the EU anyway or

b. There will be no trade deal

My money is on b simply because it's likely to extend the period where the Tory Party don't become deeply unpopular (but only by about a year)

[snowychap]

48 minutes ago, Tumblerseven said:

I dont undestand this irish border issue the new protocol. Ive read on it still dont understand the **** thing..  

Can someone explain me this if EU and UK would terminate transition period and divorce without any trade deal would there be a hard border?

I don't think that is the case, no.

The transition period is something provided for within the treaty (the Withdrawal Agreement). I think there are only a few circumstances that allow for an early termination but that wouldn't annul the entire treaty.

I believe there is only one way out of The Protocol on NI and that is if the MLAs (whether Stormont is sitting or not) decide that they don't want to continue with the current arrangements at one of their periodic votes (every four years or every eight years if the previous vote receives cross community support - this last bit from Wiki so I guess it could be wrong).

Therefore the only way to a hard border is if MLAs decide to vote against the current arrangements (and the UK and EU cannot agree other arrangmenets).

Edited February 2, 2020 by snowychap