Mantis Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 1 minute ago, Richard said: But mantis his job was to make it better ! If he hasn't improved on Sherwood then why get rid? He hasn't improved results-wise but I think medium to long term he'll be better. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 4 minutes ago, Richard said: Ive never seen and new manager come into a club to take over from a bad one , be worse and people let him off because it was shite before he joined so it seems to be acceptable that it's still shite! Presumably he was brought in to be better than sherwood and get more out of the team. A ew manager is never going to have 100% his own players but he is expected to have managerial ability to get the best out of the players he has. There're is no improvement , we are further behind. If it is acceptable that it's as shit as Sherwood we may have just stuck with Sherwood see if Sherwood was shite (and he was) because the performances were bad and the performances are just as bad now then equally you have to judge Garde as shite . Or else if you are happy with Garde now you should have been happy with Sherwood then ! Not to be that guy, but isn't this situation pretty much how it was when Lambert took over from McLeish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Pilchard Posted January 9, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted January 9, 2016 There is an interesting discussion going on here. Garde's appointment, apart from the good odds I got on him straight after Timmy had been sack, didn't really excite me. But his first game - yes there was a huge slice of luck in City's strikers playing like they had been learning off Gestede, and Guzan made it one of the few games of the season where he didn't give virtually throw the ball in the net - it showed a sense of togetherness, and dare I say it, felt as if a plan had been put in place and actually worked. Sadly, as games went on it became pretty obvious to me that yes - it was very early, but Garde wasn't the man for the job - and he hasn't been - because there has been no improvement at all. He had two weeks to work with the squad early on and we ended up getting thrashed at Everton. He's managed one club in the whole of his career. Where he inherited some good players (yes, had to sell some but he still had some good players) and produced a team that finished lower in the league than the bloke before him, and then, after him. He had no Premier League experience, and to me, it felt like a justification for the failed French project from two people who had made an almighty cock-up in the Summer. I wouldn't sack him now. It's pointless (almost like out league form then!) Get to the end of the season and then look at it. I suspect, looking at tonight's comments from him - he'll be doing the same and we might get lucky and he could walk away. Reasons why I don't think he should be the long-term manager of Villa: - Whilst I appreciate some say he did a good job at Lyon, I see the managers before him and after doing better than him. Those saying this I expect know much more about the French league than myself. - The team has shown no improvement in his ten games. In fact, I actually think it's gone backwards. There is no plan in games. No spirit. Nothing. In ten games, not only have we not won a single game, but critically to me, with a fixture list that included Watford, Sunderland, Norwich and Wycombe - we haven't even looked like winning a game. So much so - I don't think he'll actually win a game as Aston Villa manager. - The lower is littered with clubs who have tried 'projects' which haven't worked out and stuck with these foreign coaches only to have to sack halfway through a ruined Championship season. Fulham with Magath. Portsmouth with Perrin (though I think he was sacked early on - it's another case of a foreign coach coming in and failing miserably). The old Wimbledon now MK with the Egil Olsen. We need to learn from our own and others mistakes. Plus, and I admit this is an extremely childish and ridiculous reason - Aston Villa and France have never gone. We haven't had success with one French person I can think of - indeed Carew is probably the only player I can think of as anything of a success from the French league. - When managers start putting out odd teams, it's often because they've lost the plot a bit and just trying *anything*. That team put out in the most important game of the season at Norwich was not only a terrible decision, but so baffling I couldn't get me head around it. - The continued use of this bloody 4-2-3-1 formation. It hasn't work for the past four years - it's not going to start now. - I haven't seen one decent argument as to why he should stay. He hasn't been helped out by the players. Or the team around him that had put this squad together. But this is a squad made up of internationals and 'talent'. These players are good enough to win once in a fixture list that includes Watford, Sunderland, Norwich and League Two Wycombe. And he's had enough time to be able to get at least one win from them. So for me he's not good enough - at least he hasn't shown me anything other than a spirited performance for his first game. But as I said - getting rid now would be stupid. Because rather Garde, rather than Sherwood - it'll be whichever idiot takes the job this time tainted by relegation. Get to the end of the season, bring someone who can bring us together as a club (which is very, very difficult when the players and even people at the club itself seem to be making decisions to move away from the fans) and get a spirit going. Having said all that - the scenes at the end of the game - that's not deserved and never should be. Fair play to Richards for at least trying to reason with them but there is no reasoning with lunatics. I can also understand why they may be upset - but if you get that angry and upset at seeing Aston Villa not play very well you have to question why they continue to pay ridiculous sums of money to get so upset and angry. Nothing in this world is so important to get you so angry that you end up screaming abuse in stranger's faces. For all the shite that Villa have played out in particularly the last twelve months, the actions of those rabid 'supporters' is more embarrassing that anything we have shown. Do they really think that this is going to help? Think to next season - when the majority of these players are still with us because nobody will want to sign these failed players - they've shown they aren't good enough - we need these players on our side to drag us back up. Richards trying to reason with them is the first sign I've seen of him being a 'captain'. Though I must admit the 'we're trying' thing is wearing thin. All this nonsense from players on a various number of social media sites, interviews on the OS about fighting for every game, the need to improve, determination etc. This shouldn't be being said to us. Surely as a professional footballer the bare minimum is to give 100% and try your best. This should have been from game one, not game twenty. 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanky Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 I'm on the fence with Garde. He is clearly frustrated with the players and needs a window, but is it him going to be signing the players? On the other hand some of his selections are questionable and we don't seem to have any real plan, something Sherwood was heavily criticised for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilchard Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 2 minutes ago, Mantis said: He hasn't improved results-wise but I think medium to long term he'll be better. What makes you think that? Is it just hope or is it something he has shown whilst here? I'd love to think he'll make us better, but I struggle to find any kind of reason as to why he will. Show me the light!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 16 minutes ago, Mantis said: But you're counting cup games. Without them it's just 9% and that win was on the first game of the season. And of course, the fact that the diabolical run under Sherwood preceded Garde's arrival undoubtedly made it even more difficult for him. 9% is still better than 0% last time i checked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 3 minutes ago, Mantis said: He hasn't improved results-wise but I think medium to long term he'll be better. Based on what? We're getting worse week on week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 1 minute ago, Pilchard said: What makes you think that? Is it just hope or is it something he has shown whilst here? I'd love to think he'll make us better, but I struggle to find any kind of reason as to why he will. Show me the light!! Sherwood just isn't a football manager. I think Garde knows what he's doing but he's not a miracle worker obviously. 1 minute ago, Zatman said: 9% is still better than 0% last time i checked No shit but the fact that his only win came at the very beginning of the season and then we went on to lose every other league game bar one doesn't suggest that he'd be doing a better job than Garde right now. 1 minute ago, Genie said: Based on what? We're getting worse week on week. Based on his record at Lyon. I think a lot of the problem right now and in fact for the whole season is that we're just in one big spiral downwards confidence-wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwj Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Ive never seen and new manager come into a club to take over from a bad one , be worse and people let him off because it was shite before he joined so it seems to be acceptable that it's still shite! Presumably he was brought in to be better than sherwood and get more out of the team. A ew manager is never going to have 100% his own players but he is expected to have managerial ability to get the best out of the players he has. There're is no improvement , we are further behind. If it is acceptable that it's as shit as Sherwood we may have just stuck with Sherwood see if Sherwood was shite (and he was) because the performances were bad and the performances are just as bad now then equally you have to judge Garde as shite . Or else if you are happy with Garde now you should have been happy with Sherwood then ! I am happier with Garde because he's actually a football manager with experience at one of the world's biggest clubs. Sherwood is a charlatan and a cockney prick who blagged a gullible American for 9 months. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferguson1 Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 It may not be the best place to post this here but does anyone honestly know if people from the club read the topics on this site? Just curious. If I was a player, I for one would be intrigued to see what fans were saying about me. Moreover, someone from the club should print some of these comments and show them to the squad maybe then it would hit home? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 4 minutes ago, Genie said: Based on what? We're getting worse week on week. ive seen nothing to indicate progress. Defence has got worse, our attacking threat is still poor and one dimensional seeing as we still need our right back as a creator. Organisation is a shambles and we havent even looked competitive in some of the winnable games we played 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 56 minutes ago, AVFCAM said: I think Remi will leave within weeks if we still haven't won...I think the abuse will eventually drive him out...it won't chase our fate this season but I think it will be better for us next season. In years to come however, should we make it back to being a comfortable Premier League team, we'll be wishing that we'd got Remi Garde as our manager again. I think he'd be successful with players of a higher ability. Too many players, like Gestede just aren't good enough for this league. Give him last seasons team, or a team from any of the last few years, with just a few better players and we'd be fine. To to be fair, if we had Austin, Rhodes or even Wiemann I think he'd be better as his tactics would be OK as we score more goals. Garde is the sort of manager clubs hire when they're stable and looking to push on. The kind of moves Leicester, Southampton and stoke have made in recent years. I'm beginning to think he's not the sort of manager we hire to fix this current mess. If we see no real improvement then I fail to see why he should be trusted to bring us back up. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Pilchard Posted January 9, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted January 9, 2016 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Mantis said: Sherwood just isn't a football manager. I think Garde knows what he's doing but he's not a miracle worker obviously. No shit but the fact that his only win came at the very beginning of the season and then we went on to lose every other league game bar one doesn't suggest that he'd be doing a better job than Garde right now. Based on his record at Lyon. I think a lot of the problem right now and in fact for the whole season is that we're just in one big spiral downwards confidence-wise. Right, so you are believing Garde will 'come good' on the basis of: - Not being Tim Sherwood - Your belief Tim Sherwood wouldn't be doing any better - At Lyon you believe that he did a good job - There is a lack of confidence. Not being Tim Sherwood is not a reason to think Remi Garde is going to be a success any more than it is that he's also not Christopher Biggins. Great - my the reason why I can't jump on board with that - and I wish I could, is that: - Tim Sherwood clearly had to go. He'd thrown his toys out of the pram to the detriment of the team. But I don't see that as a reason to why his successor will eventually do any good after no wins in ten. - As stated above - I don't have a great knowledge of Lyon, but what I've read doesn't indicate to me that he has the skills necessary and under performed compared to person before and after him. - It's his job to improve confidence. During his time here it's got worse. How is he going to improve it if we keep losing games - something which is partially blamed on confidence. Edited January 9, 2016 by Pilchard 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 I love how Garde threw the players under the bus today like Sherwood did (similar enough comments as well) and not a mention of it on here 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 What has he said ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderball Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 3 minutes ago, Pilchard said: What makes you think that? Is it just hope or is it something he has shown whilst here? I'd love to think he'll make us better, but I struggle to find any kind of reason as to why he will. Show me the light!! I don't want Mantis to seem like a lone voice of on this, but I believe Garde has restored order and we are slightly better for his arrival: not results (take away Bournemouth on day 1 and there nothing in it), but we are usually more solid, he makes selection decisions that make sense, I feel his selection is based on performance and strategy rather than 'Passion'. But above all else, another manger change is not going to assist now, the better players are French speaking and he is best placed to expoit them, I think his temperament is better for the long term good (as a pose to Pearson etc), most decent solid managers wouldn't touch us now. But most of all, he has inherited a terrible squad that is not his. The only good players we had we sold, what's left is rubbish, we have a few with potential, but it all needs time and strategy, and changing direction again will only stall things. i do believe signing Alladyce (or his like) would have been completely the wrong move, that would never have moved us forward, it would only have been treading water, and incidentally I don't think he would have kept us up either. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arj Guy Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 1 minute ago, Zatman said: I love how Garde threw the players under the bus today like Sherwood did (similar enough comments as well) and not a mention of it on here Fair point although maybe it's because back then people were convinced that the players were good enough and that Sherwood wasn't getting the best out of them. Whereas now it is obvious that the players are just complete shite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 1 minute ago, Arj Guy said: Fair point although maybe it's because back then people were convinced that the players were good enough and that Sherwood wasn't getting the best out of them. Whereas now it is obvious that the players are just complete shite So Sherwood wasn't as bad? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilchard Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Thanks, Thunderball - as I've been saying - I'd love to share the optimism - it's better than being unhappy with whoever is in charge, but I can't help but disagree with the reasoning Quote but we are usually more solid, Personally I'd disagree as we haven't looked like winning a game in the last ten in a 'light' looking fixture list. But, such like the Southampton and City games, I can see where you are coming from. It's just not enough to be 'usually' for me. Quote he makes selection decisions that make sense THAT Norwich team selection will always stick in my mind, Quote I feel his selection is based on performance and strategy rather than 'Passion'. But it's having the same effect as if he was chosing the team based on the best haircut. Quote I think his temperament is better for the long term good (as a pose to Pearson etc), most decent solid managers wouldn't touch us now. I think that is the nearest one so far that I can 'get behind' and can see that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supervillan78 Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 This club is a turd. Sherwood and Garde just have different ways of polishing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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