The banker loving, baby-eating Tory party thread (regenerated)

[HanoiVillan]

42 minutes ago, Panto_Villan said:

The tories are behind a lot of things but they're different from most right-wing governments elsewhere because they've actually got quite a good environmental record overall. It's not perfect, of course (see the sewage controversy recently) but our emissions reductions actions  have been carried out relatively quietly and effectively under successive Tory governments.

Wind power is arguably the most important source of renewable energy in the world these days and I believe it was the UK that provided most of the funding for the big wind power companies to install and improve their offshore turbines over the last decade or two, paid for largely by surcharges on our energy bills. Offshore turbines are now at the point where they are a mature / affordable enough technology that a lot of other countries are using them instead of new fossil fuel plants because they're cheaper. Personally that counts for a lot, and I wish other countries and governments had been equally far-sighted. Instead of, say, the Germans - who have gone green by shutting down their nuclear power plants and burning gas and coal instead.

Anyone that cares about having a planet humanity can live on in 50 years time should be very grateful UK Conservatives aren't the same as US Republicans on this issue, or indeed many of the right-wing parties from the continent.

That's quite generous to be honest. They wound down Britain's coal mining industry several decades ago and the North Sea oil ran out, helpfully leaving the country with no meaningful domestic fossil fuel production industry that would need defending. Also, the development of our world leading offshore wind industry does have something to do with Tory councils refusing planning permission for onshore turbines during a period when they were significantly less 'woke' on the issue. 

That's not to say they deserve no credit at all, but they don't need much given how easy it is for them. 

[choffer]

 

[tinker]

1 hour ago, Panto_Villan said:

The tories are behind a lot of things but they're different from most right-wing governments elsewhere because they've actually got quite a good environmental record overall. It's not perfect, of course (see the sewage controversy recently) but our emissions reductions actions  have been carried out relatively quietly and effectively under successive Tory governments.

Wind power is arguably the most important source of renewable energy in the world these days and I believe it was the UK that provided most of the funding for the big wind power companies to install and improve their offshore turbines over the last decade or two, paid for largely by surcharges on our energy bills. Offshore turbines are now at the point where they are a mature / affordable enough technology that a lot of other countries are using them instead of new fossil fuel plants because they're cheaper. Personally that counts for a lot, and I wish other countries and governments had been equally far-sighted. Instead of, say, the Germans - who have gone green by shutting down their nuclear power plants and burning gas and coal instead.

Anyone that cares about having a planet humanity can live on in 50 years time should be very grateful UK Conservatives aren't the same as US Republicans on this issue, or indeed many of the right-wing parties from the continent.

You are joking? They have destroyed our rivers with sewerage being pumped into them , ruined our coastlines with the same sewerage companies getting a free ride. Why bother with treatment plants and expensive chemicals when we can just pump it straight into our natural ecosystems. It's a complete and utter disaster with little press coverage.

See here for the river Wyes destruction, heart breaking

[Panto_Villan]

5 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

That's quite generous to be honest. They wound down Britain's coal mining industry several decades ago and the North Sea oil ran out, helpfully leaving the country with no meaningful domestic fossil fuel production industry that would need defending. Also, the development of our world leading offshore wind industry does have something to do with Tory councils refusing planning permission for onshore turbines during a period when they were significantly less 'woke' on the issue. 

That's not to say they deserve no credit at all, but they don't need much given how easy it is for them. 

Hmmm. Although it's certainly true that the fossil fuel industry in the UK is a shadow of its former self, I still think it would have been way easier and cheaper to just build some new gas-fired power plants a decade ago rather than deciding to invest heavily in what were then fairly expensive and ineffective offshore wind turbines. I don't think there was much political benefit to increasing energy bills to pay for it either, I think it was just recognised as the appropriate thing to do despite the fact it clearly wasn't the easiest option available.

It does help that the North Sea is one of the best places in the world to support wind power, of course. And I know I'm basically praising the Tories for doing what you'd hope any sensible and well-informed person in that situation would do - but honestly it's more than a lot of other governments have managed before or since, so I think people attacking the Tories on their climate policy are often doing it out of reflex more than the evidence.

It's the same for the rollout of electric cars, and so forth. We're not doing anything revolutionary but the nuts and bolts of policy (incentives for buying EVs, road tax being linked to the emissions of a car, etc) is done largely competently without the sort of ideological interference you might see in other countries with uninterrupted right-wing government.

[Panto_Villan]

3 minutes ago, tinker said:

You are joking? They have destroyed our rivers with sewerage being pumped into them , ruined our coastlines with the same sewerage companies getting a free ride. Why bother with treatment plants and expensive chemicals when we can just pump it straight into our natural ecosystems. It's a complete and utter disaster with little press coverage.

See here for the river Wyes destruction, heart breaking

Sure, it's horrible and I'm not defending that. I even mentioned it as a negative point in my initial post.

But if I had to choose between the government decarbonising our economy or stopping water companies pumping sewage into rivers, I'd consider the former way more important - hence why I've weighted it much more highly when I consider how good a job they are doing on the environment.

[ml1dch]

8 minutes ago, Panto_Villan said:

But if I had to choose between the government decarbonising our economy or stopping water companies pumping sewage into rivers, I'd consider the former way more important

I had no idea that was an either / or choice.

[Xann]

More effort has been put into not finding the right answer to the reliable and clean energy question than solving it.

In fifty years they'll be cursing us.

[Panto_Villan]

15 minutes ago, ml1dch said:

I had no idea that was an either / or choice.

Silly me, not realising that sewage being pumped into rivers completely invalidates anything that the Tories might have been done to ensure the planet remains livable for future generations. Guess it is either / or after all.

[Davkaus]

51 minutes ago, choffer said:

 

That is **** it, isn't it.

It's been bothering me. This disgraced MP is a relative nobody. He has no influence, no power, he's been nowhere near the front bench since Cameron was PM and most people have no idea who he is. It makes absolutely no sense to be burning so much political capital to defend this guy from a suspension, worst case a by election in a very safe seat with sudh a huge majority of both voter share in that seat, and commons majority. It was a baffling set of actions based on the information we had.

But Boris getting out in front to cover his own arse and take down someone in a position of being able to hold him accountable? That makes perfect sense.

[bickster]

2 hours ago, Panto_Villan said:

The tories are behind a lot of things but they're different from most right-wing governments elsewhere because they've actually got quite a good environmental record overall. It's not perfect, of course (see the sewage controversy recently) but our emissions reductions actions  have been carried out relatively quietly and effectively under successive Tory governments.

Wind power is arguably the most important source of renewable energy in the world these days and I believe it was the UK that provided most of the funding for the big wind power companies to install and improve their offshore turbines over the last decade or two, paid for largely by surcharges on our energy bills. Offshore turbines are now at the point where they are a mature / affordable enough technology that a lot of other countries are using them instead of new fossil fuel plants because they're cheaper. Personally that counts for a lot, and I wish other countries and governments had been equally far-sighted. Instead of, say, the Germans - who have gone green by shutting down their nuclear power plants and burning gas and coal instead.

Anyone that cares about having a planet humanity can live on in 50 years time should be very grateful UK Conservatives aren't the same as US Republicans on this issue, or indeed many of the right-wing parties from the continent.

Sorry but this is utter nonsense. Phases 1, 2 & 3 in the bidding processes for offshore wind farms were all completed between 1998 and May 2010, I'll let you work out which party was in power during that period. Phase 4 was started in 2019 so it took the Tory Party 9 whole years in power to get that process underway and right now phase 4 produces no power

 

1 hour ago, Panto_Villan said:

And I know I'm basically praising the Tories for doing what you'd hope any sensible and well-informed person in that situation would do

No, actually you are praising them for something they played no part in.

 

[ml1dch]

Imagine how embarrassed you'd have to feel if you voted for this.

 

 

[Nicho]

I can generally handle the horrible decisions a Tory government makes, I know they are scum looking after a certain class with a mental strangle hold over the lower classes via patriotism and essentially anti communist sentament. 

What I cant handle is the u-turns. You are in government, have some conviction in your ethos, culture, manifesto, what you were voted in based on. 

For me its worse than the decision its self, the original decision is the policy they believe in. Carry it out, its what you were voted in for. Fall on your **** sword. 

Impact of social media on politics I suppose. 

[HanoiVillan]

41 minutes ago, Nicho said:

I can generally handle the horrible decisions a Tory government makes, I know they are scum looking after a certain class with a mental strangle hold over the lower classes via patriotism and essentially anti communist sentament. 

What I cant handle is the u-turns. You are in government, have some conviction in your ethos, culture, manifesto, what you were voted in based on. 

For me its worse than the decision its self, the original decision is the policy they believe in. Carry it out, its what you were voted in for. Fall on your **** sword. 

Impact of social media on politics I suppose. 

Nah, sorry, screw that, I want to force them to backtrack from as many of their shit ideas as humanly possible. People keep voting for the feckers so what else is there to do but hope they can be shamed into backtracking on their most wretched schemes?

[Nicho]

6 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

Nah, sorry, screw that, I want to force them to backtrack from as many of their shit ideas as humanly possible. People keep voting for the feckers so what else is there to do but hope they can be shamed into backtracking on their most wretched schemes?

Well they stay in power for atleast 15 years as their natural terrible intentions never bear fruit. So just their slightly less evil or thought out plans get through, destroying society grandually rather than causing so much damage quickly they lose the next election. 

[OutByEaster?]

They believe in two things;

• That government gives them a licence to make themselves money from their corporate constituency.
• That staying in government is vital if they are to continue to make money.

In this instance, the first of those things had the potential to upset the second of those things, so they've done the only decent thing they could; abandoned their adopted principle and thrown one of their own under a bus.

 

[tinker]

4 hours ago, Panto_Villan said:

Silly me, not realising that sewage being pumped into rivers completely invalidates anything that the Tories might have been done to ensure the planet remains livable for future generations. Guess it is either / or after all.

 Defending the mess they are making is not a good move when they are indefensible , Oil companies getting UK tax rebate

Quote

Revealed: ExxonMobil, Shell and BP among oil companies paying negative tax in UK on some North Sea operations

Since the Paris agreement, ExxonMobil has received net tax repayments of £360 million on its North Sea operations, BP £490 million, and Shell £400 million, rounded to the nearest 10 million [...]

[...] 

A third of all significant energy companies operating in the North Sea paid negative tax last year.

This is possible in large part because of a UK tax policy that was brought in just a few months after the Paris climate accord was agreed in 2015.

The policy allows oil and gas companies to claim back public money in order to help with decommissioning rigs and infrastructure as the UK progresses towards its net zero carbon emissions targets.[...]

 

[...]Some of these sums relate to corporate tax arrangements, but significant portions relate to money for decommissioning.

The UK government's Oil and Gas Authority has estimated that the total bill for decommissioning will be £51bn.[...]

 

[HanoiVillan]

1 hour ago, Nicho said:

Well they stay in power for atleast 15 years as their natural terrible intentions never bear fruit. So just their slightly less evil or thought out plans get through, destroying society grandually rather than causing so much damage quickly they lose the next election. 

I'm not much of a believer in 'heightening the contradictions' I'm afraid. I used to believe in that stuff, but 5 years is a long time for them to have free reign to 'do their worst', and come election time it won't matter what they've done, the country's political and media class will fall in line behind them as always.

[Panto_Villan]

6 hours ago, bickster said:

Sorry but this is utter nonsense. Phases 1, 2 & 3 in the bidding processes for offshore wind farms were all completed between 1998 and May 2010, I'll let you work out which party was in power during that period. Phase 4 was started in 2019 so it took the Tory Party 9 whole years in power to get that process underway and right now phase 4 produces no power

 

No, actually you are praising them for something they played no part in.

 

Huh. You're right re: the offshore wind tenders, and I stand corrected. I guess we can chalk up another success for New Labour.

Nonetheless, the UK has seen the largest emission reductions of any major country since 1990. The conservatives have been in power for 18 of those 31 years. Clearly Labour may actually be responsible for some of the best policies but it seems to be stretching credulity a little to argue that they had nothing to do with it at all, or that their environmental record is "indefensible" as posters above have suggested.

Edited November 5, 2021 by Panto_Villan

[desensitized43]

10 hours ago, Nicho said:

I can generally handle the horrible decisions a Tory government makes, I know they are scum looking after a certain class with a mental strangle hold over the lower classes via patriotism and essentially anti communist sentament. 

What I cant handle is the u-turns. You are in government, have some conviction in your ethos, culture, manifesto, what you were voted in based on. 

For me its worse than the decision its self, the original decision is the policy they believe in. Carry it out, its what you were voted in for. Fall on your **** sword. 

Impact of social media on politics I suppose. 

Yeah I’m pretty sure you don’t want the tories to go “full Tory”. You really won’t like the results.

People dying in the street because they’ve dismantled the nhs and social care system so that only those that can afford it can get the help they need.

The return of the poor houses for those that fall on hard times and can’t afford to pay their bills because they’ve removed all the safety nets.

Massive deregulation of pretty much every industry leading to runaway capitalism and basically the worst excesses of greed.

Manipulation of the political structure to shut out all the other parties because ya know, tories were born to rule.

I could go on but frankly there isn’t enough time in my day.

[The Fun Factory]

We probably got about another 10 years of this at least. Happy Friday everyone.