The Chairman Mao resembling, Monarchy hating, threat to Britain, Labour Party thread

[Jareth]

5 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

If fairness, he might have caveated it by letting us know he'd abandon all ten of them prior to testing whether he could win power - which is what he did.

He's not a Tory, he's especially not whatever madness the modern Tory party is - but he's very much to the right of the modern middle and modern middle is a fair bit right of where it was a while back - he's sort of where Blair and the Cameron/Clegg creature were - corporate enough to win an election, but hoping to ask for the odd concession, like, hopefully, a working health service.

 

Thanks, actually I think that crystalises it a bit - he's Nick Clegg 2.0, but with legal nous enabling no pledges to stick. He'll probably be working for Elon Musk in 10 years. 

[markavfc40]

13 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

he's sort of where Blair and the Cameron/Clegg creature were - 

 

I don't think he is anywhere near where Cameron/Clegg were. In fairness though Clegg had little say in things and it was the Cameron Osborne austerity show which is the reason for many of the issues we are facing now. The decimation of social care being the biggy and the NHS reforms/under funding and general destruction of our public services. 

I don't see Starmer being anti public services or someone who will stigmatise those with f all. At the very least under Starmers Labour I expect our public services to be rebuilt and adequately funded, a decent welfare safety net reinstated, and our relationship with the EU to be rebuilt. Oh and some standards and consequences for your actions to return to politics. 

[blandy]

7 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

The first bit is I think inarguable; what makes you think he's left of Blair?

Blair and New Labour were all about “third way” politics, not Tory, not “old” Labour smokey rooms with Union leaders, anti Europe stuff. You had Gordon Brown’s third world debt cancelling, and also the abolition of the old clause 4 stuff. Bit of a mix.

Starmer strikes me as to the left of that, as @bickstersays, too. But it’s a different era and the situation is completely different if Starmer gets in. The economy is crashed. Society is more liberal around LGBTQ+, race, drugs, all kinds. The NHS is crashed.  It’s a much worse situation he will inherit. Starmer’s career to date suggests more left than Blair, less charisma, more organised, much less likely to be a lapdog of the US president.

[OutByEaster?]

6 minutes ago, blandy said:

 

It’s a much worse situation he will inherit. Starmer’s career to date suggests more left than Blair, less charisma, more organised, much less likely to be a lapdog of the US president.

It's definitely a very difficult situation to inherit, I'm not sure I see where you're getting him as further left from though.

If anything, for me, he's more a corporate style centrist than Blair by appearance and more likely to be a lapdog of the US corporate state (who've pretty much replaced the President since those days).

He remains a hell of an improvement on the criminal gang we have in power at the moment though.

 

[OutByEaster?]

I do wonder, if the Labour party ceased to exist tomorrow - a sort of Thanos-like fingersnap out of existence - would the Tories still lose the next election?

I suspect the answer might well still be yes.

Starmer is in both a cursed and blessed position in that it doesn't really matter what he's like, he's going to win the election.

[LondonLax]

2 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

.

If anything, for me, he's more a corporate style centrist than Blair by appearance and more likely to be a lapdog of the US corporate state (who've pretty much replaced the President since those days).

 

 

Would you be able to set out on here the Labour policies that are giving you this impression? I’m genuinely interested.

Edited February 23, 2023 by LondonLax

[OutByEaster?]

4 minutes ago, LondonLax said:

Would you be able to set out on here the Labour policies that are giving you this impression?

Policies aren't really Kier's thing.

I'm going by how quickly he ditched the ten centre-left pledges he made in order to get the members to elect him, his purge of left thinking members of his party, his dinners with arms manufacturers, his refusal to back the unions in the ongoing battle against this government,  the praise he received from Farage on saying we should remove foreign workers from the NHS and have more Brits, his cosy relationship with The Sun, him being The Spectator's politician of the year, his weaponising of anti-semitism and his promise not to tax or regulate the banks.

Even in today's five "missions"the top one is "growth" a promise to the city to continue to measure our society using a metric that's hugely flawed and damaging, they include massive support for private energy companies rather than a nationalised green energy project and NHS reform, with no visible guarantee that I can see that "reform" doesn't mean further outsourcing.

It's all very money friendly - he's a kitten to the banks - the best that we can hope is that he'll then gain some sort of concessions from that power as a result.

 

[Davkaus]

47 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

the praise he received from Farage on saying we should remove foreign workers from the NHS and have more Brits

 

I broadly agree with your views on Starmer, but this is categorically not what he said.

[OutByEaster?]

47 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

I broadly agree with your views on Starmer, but this is categorically not what he said.

It's a fair cop guv. I may have over egged that.

Do you reckon I can get away with hissing "It's what he meant"?

 

[Jareth]

Question Time was as informative as ever - the Labour panelist refusing to give any opinion whatsoever on any issue - as doing so would be rocking the boat. Can't blame them, it's going to the corner flag when you're 3 nil up. Dull as **** though. 

[Chindie]

5 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

It's a fair cop guv. I may have over egged that.

Do you reckon I can get away with hissing "It's what he meant"?

 

No. Starmer's too acceptably status quo to give less than staid good faith support.

[tinker]

8 hours ago, Jareth said:

Question Time was as informative as ever - the Labour panelist refusing to give any opinion whatsoever on any issue - as doing so would be rocking the boat. Can't blame them, it's going to the corner flag when you're 3 nil up. Dull as **** though. 

Anything to get us away from these Tory clowns, don't give the media a sniff of controversy. 

[Wainy316]

9 hours ago, Jareth said:

it's going to the corner flag when you're 3 nil up. 

Probably the best analogy I've seen of Starmer's time as leader.

[blandy]

11 minutes ago, Wainy316 said:

Probably the best analogy I've seen of Starmer's time as leader.

When he took over they were 5-0 down.

[The Fun Factory]

12 minutes ago, Wainy316 said:

Probably the best analogy I've seen of Starmer's time as leader.

Yeah but it's like playing to the corner flag at 3 nil after you have lost 8 of your last 11 games. 7 if you are being kind.

[Wainy316]

Just now, blandy said:

When he took over they were 5-0 down.

And the only reason he is 3 goals up is because the Tories then scored 8 own goals.  

[magnkarl]

56 minutes ago, Wainy316 said:

And the only reason he is 3 goals up is because the Tories then scored 8 own goals.  

And in the same period Labour and Saint Jezza scored 10 own goals and couldn't beat a cheating, lying government even if they literally gave them the win. As blandy wrote above, when Keir took over the party was a mess created by someone who should've never been allowed to be leader.

[Xann]

The potential for good chaos isn't zero.

Finding a middle path that satisfies the suits and the disenchanted majority will be very difficult. Privatisation hasn't worked at all for the second group, and if that group remains engaged with politics Starmer would seem to have to upset the suits, or it's a short stay at the top? 

Say the tax swervers go in hard on a theoretical reformist PM Starmer? They risk him escalating the scrap.

I'm taking the BBC getting an enema as a given. You can't be editing out the Brexit PM's hungover gaffes from Remembrance Sunday for a historic sober clip and not expect a shakeup.

Since hostilities have kicked off since the initial Russia report, Starmer has the option of setting the intelligence services on: how we got a Chinese nuclear power station? How we nearly got national Chinese comms infrastructure? How the KGB family got into the Lords? How Russian money and influence was all over the Tories, Brexit and likely a smattering of 'his own' (he'd maybe be delighted to see the back of?)

*The public's piss could really get boiled. 

We'll just have to see what happens? 

Hope it's not the fudge or truce, and the ball getting kicked down the timeline? An easy way out in the short term, but there's a proper pileup of different shades of shit coming.

Solving problems sequentially, starting now, is an easier ask than attempting a fix on a clutch of simultaneous crises down the line. Those crises are no longer over the horizon.

Let's see if KRS KC gets in, then has the bottle to get the ball rolling, then makes some sustained progress?

The offshore gang would then really be sniffing desperately for actual dirt, but almost certainly executing a plan B smokescreen too? Too many gullibles fell for the Joo Hater Jez ruse

 

* The tenuous bit. Honestly, this country. No wonder we've been turned over.

10 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

Policies aren't really Kier's thing.

I'm unlikely to vote for the guy first time around, but not giving the bullshit press a clue has seemed a viable strategy to date.

We don't have a clue either, obviously. Ridiculous really, but that's where we are.

 

The obvious caveat is that this is all very 2 dimensional thinking, China and Russia could potentially dwarf domestic politics.

[blandy]

2 hours ago, Xann said:

Let's see if KRS KC gets in, then has the bottle to get the ball rolling, then makes some sustained progress?

Yes. That’s the key, because it’s the point you have most power and mandate. He’s going to have a massive pile of things to deal with if/when he gets in and picking the right ones to tackle first is essential. After the first couple of years it’s much harder.

[Jareth]

Lucianna Berger back in the fold. It’s now okay to set up another party and campaign against Labour, it’s loyal.