The Chairman Mao resembling, Monarchy hating, threat to Britain, Labour Party thread

[Jareth]

Labour still not voicing support or opposition to domestic vaccine passports - I wonder which way they'll go - support Boris or join Jezza - tough choice for them, the focus groups must not have produced a clear winner. 

[Ingram85]

What is the alternative to Labour as an opposition voter? I’m a red at heart but Corbyn and Starmer are as useless as each other just at different ends of the scale. I’ve voted Green the last few times but there’s a few policies I don’t agree with. Stuck. 

[ml1dch]

44 minutes ago, Ingram85 said:

What is the alternative to Labour as an opposition voter? 

Same as every election. Whichever candidate is most likely to beat the scumbag standing for the Tory party.

[MessiWillSignForVilla]

Pretty damning poll for Labour.

Also, super weird that there's loads of support for policies proposed under Corbyn, maybe more flag waving isn't the answer?

[LondonLax]

7 hours ago, bickster said:

Didn't he sack RLB for refusing to remove the tweets that Maxine Peake and the Indie both aknowledged were wrong? The inference being that she was unapologetic about the incorrect opinion expressed.

Though having said that the Starmer Apology Campaign is rather getting on my tits. If he was visiting a vaccination centre he has no need to apologise. Either he was visiting a Vaccination Centre, no apology required or he was visiting a looney conversion therapy church, in which case he really should have his bumps felt as well as issue an apology

“Incorrect opinion”

[bickster]

Just now, LondonLax said:

“Incorrect opinion”

Yes the author of the piece and the publisher both conceded that the point raised was factually untrue. The opinion expressed in the article was incorrect 

[darrenm]

1 hour ago, bickster said:

Yes the author of the piece and the publisher both conceded that the point raised was factually untrue. The opinion expressed in the article was incorrect 

Not sure "inaccurate" counts as conceding that the point raised was factually untrue.

Quote

I was inaccurate in my assumption of American Police training & its sources

.https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-did-israeli-secret-service-teach-floyd-police-to-kneel-on-neck

[bickster]

11 minutes ago, darrenm said:

Not sure "inaccurate" counts as conceding that the point raised was factually untrue.

Darren, look it up in a dictionary if you want but it really isn't worth debating any more. I just couldn't see a similarity between the RLB sacking incident and Starmer visiting a loony church. I am still failing to see the parallels drawn

 

[dAVe80]

A depressing but unsurprising poll. It says two things to me. People don't know who Starmer is, or what he or the Labour Party stand for anymore, and people support radical policies. 

On Teesside, Labour have taken their vote for granted for too long, and become increasingly out of touch. You may want to blame Corbyn for that, but as someone who is eligible to vote in a Tees Valley constituency, I'd say a larger issue is the way the local party and CLPs have been run. Labour North remained, and still does to a certain extent remain to the run by the right. Local councils were dominated and still are by local, long serving Blairites, and they have failed to get across the message that austerity and cuts were down to the Conservative governments. The local MPs and candidates have all mostly been rigtwing, or parachuted into the seats. 

What we're seeing now is years of Teessiders not being able to tell the difference, and austerity having the face of Labour. Labour didn't fight hard enough to keep their factories open, and to bring work to the region. What they saw was Labour politicians telling them keep voting for us, but nothing changing. That's why Brexit was so appealing. When you have nothing, and someone says things will change if you vote for us, that's an infinitely better message than vote for us, cus the alternative is worse. 

In my opinion Labour in the Tees Valley don't have to look far. Cast a gaze to Tyneside, and see what Jamie Driscoll is doing as the Labour Metro Mayor. Standing on a platform of transformation, and selling an alternative. Offering something different, and doing it from a left wing position. More of the same from Labour, or going back to watered down Tory Lite policies isn't going to cut it. 

[chrisp65]

I think I’d have to say at this point, I have no idea what’s going on with the majority of the voting public.

 

 

[bickster]

11 hours ago, Jareth said:

Labour still not voicing support or opposition to domestic vaccine passports - I wonder which way they'll go - support Boris or join Jezza - tough choice for them, the focus groups must not have produced a clear winner. 

As much as I've argued against them elsewhere, it must be difficult for Labour to form a position on this until the detail exists which it currently doesn't

[Davkaus]

1 hour ago, dAVe80 said:

A depressing but unsurprising poll. It says two things to me. People don't know who Starmer is, or what he or the Labour Party stand for anymore, and people support radical policies. 

 

And the tories have actually done good things for that area. You're right. Labour have taken the north for granted for a very long time. The Tees Valley mayor is a tory and pretty popular, polling even higher than he did when he was elected, parts of the civil service have moved up there and created loads of jobs.

I don't think it's as simple as "Starmer is no good, I'll vote tory".

It's hard to see a Labour government for a very long time unless something radical happens. They lost Scotland and won't get it back. They've lost large parts of the north and midlands, and I don't see them offering anything to win that back either.

The Labour Brexit vote turning blue might be the end of the party as a plausible party of government for a generation.

Edited April 6, 2021 by Davkaus

[Demitri_C]

Its really strange how things are reversing.  London is more labour (see khans polls against bailey for london mayor) and how the north is becoming tory.

 

[dAVe80]

16 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

And the tories have actually done good things for that area. You're right. Labour have taken the north for granted for a very long time. The Tees Valley mayor is a tory and pretty popular, polling even higher than he did when he was elected, parts of the civil service have moved up there and created loads of jobs.

I don't think it's as simple as "Starmer is no good, I'll vote tory".

It's hard to see a Labour government for a very long time unless something radical happens. They lost Scotland and won't get it back. They've lost large parts of the north and midlands, and I don't see them offering anything to win that back either.

The Labour Brexit vote turning blue might be the end of the party as a plausible party of government for a generation.

Definitely agree that it's not fully Starmer's fault. Essentially he's in the same position as Corbyn was, in so much as the Labour Party in the Tees Valley hasn't changed all that much, and Labour North is happy to go along with that. The difference is I feel he's quite happy to carry that on. 

I'm a doing disservice to all the hard working activists who have pushed to change it, but unfortunately have been met with a party machine that is doesn't want to change. From experience I can tell you how disheartening it is to go out and campaign for a local party that wants you to shut up, and stop going on about how things could be done better. A local party that actively wants to keep quiet about the national leader, and his policies, and didn't want to build on the success of 2017. 

Interesting you mention the Tory Mayor. Again this was just a disaster waiting to happen for Labour in the region, and the start of things to come. Since he got voted in, Labour have lost MPs, and councils over the region. He is absolutely going to win his position back, and this goes back to Labour North, and in this election the national party not wanting to promote candidates who want to do things differently. If they'd have put the effort into supporting Jessie Joe Jacobs in the way they have Dr Paul Williams in Hartlepool, then maybe she would have had a fighting chance. As it stands, he's on for a landslide. 

[HanoiVillan]

16 minutes ago, dAVe80 said:

Interesting you mention the Tory Mayor. Again this was just a disaster waiting to happen for Labour in the region, and the start of things to come. Since he got voted in, Labour have lost MPs, and councils over the region. He is absolutely going to win his position back, and this goes back to Labour North, and in this election the national party not wanting to promote candidates who want to do things differently. If they'd have put the effort into supporting Jessie Joe Jacobs in the way they have Dr Paul Williams in Hartlepool, then maybe she would have had a fighting chance. As it stands, he's on for a landslide. 

They're not serious about winning.

[Jareth]

10 hours ago, MessiWillSignForVilla said:

Pretty damning poll for Labour.

Also, super weird that there's loads of support for policies proposed under Corbyn, maybe more flag waving isn't the answer?

And some pretty awful hot takes today no less than from the Guardian where the blame is being put at Corbyn's feet - there was me thinking Labour won the seat twice under him. 

[OutByEaster?]

I remain confident that Labour can beat Corbyn in this election.

 

 

 

 

[HanoiVillan]

1 hour ago, Davkaus said:

The Labour Brexit vote turning blue might be the end of the party as a plausible party of government for a generation.

Perhaps - maybe - it wasn't a stroke of genius to change the party's policy to support an unpopular second referendum, then appoint the main architect of that policy change as leader, and then for him to cram through as candidate for a by-election in a heavily leave-supporting seat a man who supported that policy change in his previous time as an MP, even though he had no connection to the town.

Perhaps this isn't all Jeremy Corbyn's fault, somehow.

Perhaps, perhaps, perhaps.

Edited April 6, 2021 by HanoiVillan

[Jareth]

This lot are wind-up merchants (though the Keir/Keith parody of birthergate is funny) - but they have a point - 2% share in that poll, without campaigning yet, if that gets any bigger then it could well take the seat away from Labour - where will the blame be put if that happens? 

 

[Chindie]

18 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

Perhaps - maybe - it wasn't a stroke of genius to change the party's policy to support an unpopular second referendum, then appoint the main architect of that policy change as leader, and then for him to cram through as candidate for a by-election in a heavily leave-supporting seat a man who supported that policy change in his previous time as an MP, even though he had no connection to the town.

Perhaps this isn't all Jeremy Corbyn's fault, somehow.

Perhaps, perhaps, perhaps.

Wash your mouth out.

Corbyn is the original sin. He lost the referendum, he turned Labour into the most anti-Semitic organisation since 30s Germany, he purposefully lost those elections, he made the sensible core of the party drive a stake into its heart... He made you tread on that plug this morning. He made the milk go off. He made it snow on Easter Monday.