TRO Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 (edited) 16 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: I know you do. I thought his positive running and physical strength, particularly down the channels, caused Dunk issues. Though admittedly my view was hampered by being in row C. We didn't exploit that space very well in the first half and I thought his touch was poor at times. Though this is Gabby we are talking about here, not some superstar striker. He's bang average at the best of times and Dunk is a Premier League defender playing in the Championship, though Gabby is and remains a completely different type of player to RHM. So, as I said, horses for courses. I don't know what you mean with your last line. To say a football player is 'physical' is a fairly well established term. I don't know how to make it much clearer and still keep it succinct. RHM lacks it. not to labour the point but Steve Bruce has already mentioned the physical side of the game as paramount to a player succeeding. That is not to be construed as a clogger or a vinnie Jones. We only have to marvel at the physical elements of Agureo and Suarez how they bully the opponent back in order to APPLY their technique as testimony to SB's claims. Edited November 25, 2016 by TRO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, Richard said: Nope. I am being realistic with the fragility of the improved atmosphere at the club among the fanbase. Agbonlahor is not liked , is seen as a disruptive person at the club taking the piss out of it. People may bite their tongues more because they like the manager but i firmly believe that should Agbonlahor even have a suggestion of a slip about him, regardless of Bruce dropping him or not, that will have a bad affect on the atmosphere. Not liked by who? A fair few supporters? I have heard nothing about him not being liked around the club or the other players not liking him. Quite the opposite in fact. Bruce has actually praised his attitude and the fact he has worked so hard in training and things like asking to be allowed to be in the dressing room pre Blues game. As it was he impressed enough to be picked. The reaction from some on here actually doesn’t correlate to the reaction he gets at games where has gotten a very good reception since coming back into the fold. Under a manager like Bruce I am supremely confident that if he messes up again he is done. He won’t get the opportunity to stink the place out. I am sure Gabby knows that and I am hopeful he will continue to repay the faith shown in him by Bruce by continuing to work hard. As long as he does that whilst his ability can still be questioned I will have no problem with him being involved, putting in a shift when asked and continuing to be part of a squad on the up. As for RHM he couldn’t do what Bruce is asking Gabby to do which it seems is to be a physical presence up top, hassle and close down the opposing sides back line hopefully allowing others up top some space. RHM is just 18 and if he continues to work hard then his rapid development at this club will hopefully lead to a first team chance eventually. That won’t be playing the role Gabby is being asked to play though. Edited November 25, 2016 by markavfc40 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted November 26, 2016 Share Posted November 26, 2016 19 hours ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: I know you do. I thought his positive running and physical strength, particularly down the channels, caused Dunk issues. Though admittedly my view was hampered by being in row C. We didn't exploit that space very well in the first half and I thought his touch was poor at times. Though this is Gabby we are talking about here, not some superstar striker. He's bang average at the best of times and Dunk is a Premier League defender playing in the Championship, though Gabby is and remains a completely different type of player to RHM. So, as I said, horses for courses. I don't know what you mean with your last line. To say a football player is 'physical' is a fairly well established term. I don't know how to make it much clearer and still keep it succinct. RHM lacks it. Let me explain a little further Doug - it's a term used when you're trying to find something positive to say about a players performance but really you're struggling to come up with something- so out trots the line " he put himself about" face it Doug he's not really done much with the football at his feet has he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 On 26/11/2016 at 09:38, Dave J said: Let me explain a little further Doug - it's a term used when you're trying to find something positive to say about a players performance but really you're struggling to come up with something- so out trots the line " he put himself about" face it Doug he's not really done much with the football at his feet has he? What makes you think I'm struggling or that I would care to? I have no personal interest in Gabby succeeding, or RHM. Only in Aston Villa Football Club. That's not to say I don't occasionally take a particular shine to certain players, but neither of these two would have me shedding a tear if they left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 19 hours ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: What makes you think I'm struggling or that I would care to? I have no personal interest in Gabby succeeding, or RHM. Only in Aston Villa Football Club. That's not to say I don't occasionally take a particular shine to certain players, but neither of these two would have me shedding a tear if they left. I think you might regret RHM if/when he moves- I like him Doug and think he will do well given the opportunity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 6 minutes ago, Dave J said: I think you might regret RHM if/when he moves- I like him Doug and think he will do well given the opportunity Maybe. I don't doubt it's a possibility. I've seen very little evidence of it so far mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 (edited) On 11/25/2016 at 14:49, markavfc40 said: Not liked by who? A fair few supporters? I have heard nothing about him not being liked around the club or the other players not liking him. Quite the opposite in fact. Bruce has actually praised his attitude and the fact he has worked so hard in training and things like asking to be allowed to be in the dressing room pre Blues game. As it was he impressed enough to be picked. The reaction from some on here actually doesn’t correlate to the reaction he gets at games where has gotten a very good reception since coming back into the fold. Under a manager like Bruce I am supremely confident that if he messes up again he is done. He won’t get the opportunity to stink the place out. I am sure Gabby knows that and I am hopeful he will continue to repay the faith shown in him by Bruce by continuing to work hard. As long as he does that whilst his ability can still be questioned I will have no problem with him being involved, putting in a shift when asked and continuing to be part of a squad on the up. As for RHM he couldn’t do what Bruce is asking Gabby to do which it seems is to be a physical presence up top, hassle and close down the opposing sides back line hopefully allowing others up top some space. RHM is just 18 and if he continues to work hard then his rapid development at this club will hopefully lead to a first team chance eventually. That won’t be playing the role Gabby is being asked to play though. Gabby will respond to SB, because SB is a different animal to those before him. this is not a get out of jail card for Gabby.....but I think the clubs demise and frustrations seemed to get the better of him and he mentally and physically threw the towel in( not saying that is right, but he is human) and we had a hierarchy not fit for purpose. There won't be a repeat, because that is all behind us. Edited November 30, 2016 by TRO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 30 minutes ago, TRO said: Gabby will respond to SB, because SB is a different animal to those before him. this is not a get out of jail card for Gabby.....but I think the clubs demise and frustrations seemed to get the better of him and he mentally and physically threw the towel in( not saying that is right, but he is human) and we had a hierarchy not fit for purpose. There won't be a repeat, because that is all behind us. There is an argument much like Vassell that he simply went stale having been here since he was a kid and could have done with a fresh challenge. As it is he hung around and I am under no illusions one of the drivers behind that would have been the 50k+ wages he was on. Whilst he has been a part of the demise only a small part of it is down to him. He isn't to blame for those around him leaving. He saw Milner, Barry, Downing, Petrov, Ashley Young, Carew all move on for one reason or another and not get replaced with anything like the same quality. Whist he hasn't helped himself, quite the opposite in fact, it is also little wonder his performance levels dropped as the quality around him diminished. Anyway as this is the RHM thread lets hope he can at least give us the initial 4-5 year spell Gabby did when he broke into the first team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 Couple of great posts above, exactly how I feel about the whole saga from a humanist point of view. We don't have the faintest idea of what these players, as individuals, are going through on a day to day basis. How they tick. What demons they might have, how they are being treated by those around them. As long as they show the effort on the pitch, where it counts, generally I'll forgive them for most indiscretions. I've never really faulted Gabby's effort on the pitch, though I know some might I don't agree. His behaviour last season was poor. But to reiterate something I've said before, this is not his 4th, 5th or 6th chance. It is his 2nd. He might have been injured and/or crap before that, but that doesn't count as a misdemeanor. Happy to let somebody drag this back to RHM now! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 1 hour ago, TRO said: Gabby will respond to SB, because SB is a different animal to those before him. this is not a get out of jail card for Gabby.....but I think the clubs demise and frustrations seemed to get the better of him and he mentally and physically threw the towel in( not saying that is right, but he is human) and we had a hierarchy not fit for purpose. There won't be a repeat, because that is all behind us. With the greatest of respect this is a get out of jail free card- if not I 'm not sure what is. The clubs demise as you point out surely should have sent him on a different orbit? And as for RHM I don't see any job that Gabby can do- that this kid could not do either, but this is just my view Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 2 minutes ago, Dave J said: With the greatest of respect this is a get out of jail free card- if not I 'm not sure what is. Yep. What's wrong with that? If it's a genuine reason that stands up to scrutiny of course. Though it hasn't been 'free'. He has lost a large portion of the fanbase, possibly forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, Dave J said: With the greatest of respect this is a get out of jail free card- if not I 'm not sure what is. The clubs demise as you point out surely should have sent him on a different orbit? And as for RHM I don't see any job that Gabby can do- that this kid could not do either, but this is just my view Dave I have read a lot of your stuff and have an empathy in much of what you write. I am not trying to compromise with you here, but appealing for you to understand my point. I have wrote oodles of posts criticising Gabby's play over the years, but for me, this is different. when I was criticising him we were in the top half of the Prem.....now we are 11th in the championship (in quick sand) with a manager capable of getting us out. I am not asking any fan to now be his friend, but he is being paid fortunes, not his fault with a hefty contract term, the new manager could easily have taken Rdm's view( just remember much easier to be destructive than constructive) Steve has looked at the positives and given him a chance.....bearing in mind he has done nothing to upset or hamper SB....he is just going with a structure that he believes in and Gabby offers him an attribute he buys in to. The forward line for me is very diverse all the players offering different attributes, Gabby is no exception....in isolation I have never been a Gabby fan.....but a fit and fired up Gabby I think we need to get out of this quagmire. I respectfully say, look at the big picture and ignore the trap of the narrow mind we can all fall in to at times. Ps sorry, back to RHM, but explaining why we think SB is favouring Gabby at present. Edited November 30, 2016 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 1 hour ago, TRO said: Dave I have read a lot of your stuff and have an empathy in much of what you write. I am not trying to compromise with you here, but appealing for you to understand my point. I have wrote oodles of posts criticising Gabby's play over the years, but for me, this is different. when I was criticising him we were in the top half of the Prem.....now we are 11th in the championship (in quick sand) with a manager capable of getting us out. I am not asking any fan to now be his friend, but he is being paid fortunes, not his fault with a hefty contract term, the new manager could easily have taken Rdm's view( just remember much easier to be destructive than constructive) Steve has looked at the positives and given him a chance.....bearing in mind he has done nothing to upset or hamper SB....he is just going with a structure that he believes in and Gabby offers him an attribute he buys in to. The forward line for me is very diverse all the players offering different attributes, Gabby is no exception....in isolation I have never been a Gabby fan.....but a fit and fired up Gabby I think we need to get out of this quagmire. I respectfully say, look at the big picture and ignore the trap of the narrow mind we can all fall in to at times. Ps sorry, back to RHM, but explaining why we think SB is favouring Gabby at present. TRO- I agree with much of what you say for pretty much the whole time - however the bigger picture for me is quite simply in my very humble opinion he is frankly not good enough, not even in this league. I think most regulars on here will know this is a view I have held for some time now and therefore is nothing to do with any off- field antics. Even in MON's days I just could not see a player in there - just a remarkably quick young man- but lacking in footballing attributes- so from my point of view unfortunately there is no bigger picture to gaze at. No I don't want him in the squad let alone the first 11 so for me it's very easy to say put RHM in his place. I'm not trying to be clever or funny towards anyone - it's purely a footballing opinion of mine that's all. TRO having being bought up on the likes of Little, Gray, Shaw, Yorke, Saunders all technically gifted footballers ( Gray ? ) but still what a player - maybe I was spoiled but I make no apologies for having a liking for players who are comfortable on the ball and easy on the eye to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 3 minutes ago, Dave J said: TRO- I agree with much of what you say for pretty much the whole time - however the bigger picture for me is quite simply in my very humble opinion he is frankly not good enough, not even in this league. I think most regulars on here will know this is a view I have held for some time now and therefore is nothing to do with any off- field antics. Even in MON's days I just could not see a player in there - just a remarkably quick young man- but lacking in footballing attributes- so from my point of view unfortunately there is no bigger picture to gaze at. No I don't want him in the squad let alone the first 11 so for me it's very easy to say put RHM in his place. I'm not trying to be clever or funny towards anyone - it's purely a footballing opinion of mine that's all. TRO having being bought up on the likes of Little, Gray, Shaw, Yorke, Saunders all technically gifted footballers ( Gray ? ) but still what a player - maybe I was spoiled but I make no apologies for having a liking for players who are comfortable on the ball and easy on the eye to watch. I do understand what you are saying. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 3 hours ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: Yep. What's wrong with that? If it's a genuine reason that stands up to scrutiny of course. Though it hasn't been 'free'. He has lost a large portion of the fanbase, possibly forever. well do you really think it's genuine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Designer1 Posted November 30, 2016 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted November 30, 2016 Oh good, two Gabby threads. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted December 1, 2016 Moderator Share Posted December 1, 2016 1 hour ago, Designer1 said: Oh good, two Gabby threads. Yes, That. On topic now please Villans. Ta. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 10 hours ago, Designer1 said: Oh good, two Gabby threads. He's so fat that he needs two threads. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 So- do you think RHM will get any game time up to christmas? Or in the new year during the ACN? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyp102 Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 9 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said: So- do you think RHM will get any game time up to christmas? Or in the new year during the ACN? No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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