The Tim Sherwood Thread

[TrentVilla]

That's just my thoughts, call it absurd if you wish Stevo but fact is we are relegation candidates as it stands so the 50m clearly didn't have the desired impact and for me it was just not enough to replace the entire spine of the team as well as strengthen the rest of the squad!

It is absurd.

And we're relegation candidates right now because we're being badly managed. Sherwood actually bought well, imo. He's managing the team poorly.

Ironic that he is seemingly trying to discredit the one area of the job the fans think he has done well

[AvfcTheObsession]

I think our first eleven is weaker in midfield and attack than it was last season.

Benteke > Gestede or Ayew.

Cleverley + Delph > Gana/Vereout (at this moment in time).

Gana and Vereout may prove to be better than the 2 best CMs we had last season, one is young and both are adapting to the league, but right now Delph and Cleverley would offer a PL side more.

[useless]

Overall the squad is better than it was last year. Just need someone to manage them properly.

Disagree with this. We have replaced Lowton with Crespo, Baker with Ilori, Vlaar with Richards, Senderos with Lescott,Delph with Gana, Cleverley with Veretout, Benteke with Gestede and Weimann with Ayew. I'm failing to see any level of improvement apart from Richards coming in.

I think all them will prove to be improvements, with the exception of Gestede on Benteke and possibly Gana on Delph. Although Gana was looking really useful before his injury and didn't look that much of a down-grade on Delph, he was poor against Stoke but I think he'll be back to his best before long.

[Dr_Pangloss]

That's just my thoughts, call it absurd if you wish Stevo but fact is we are relegation candidates as it stands so the 50m clearly didn't have the desired impact and for me it was just not enough to replace the entire spine of the team as well as strengthen the rest of the squad!

It is absurd.

And we're relegation candidates right now because we're being badly managed. Sherwood actually bought well, imo. He's managing the team poorly.

Hold on, according him, he didn't actually buy these players, right?

[TRO]

The net spend isn't relevant as such but i think it's crazy to say he "had 50m to spend" as though had it to spend to improve the team we ended last season with as that wasn't quite the case was it!

From the struggling team he inherited he lost Benteke, Delph, Cleverley, Vlaar and Given. Those were the best players at this club!!  On top of that he had to try to actually improve on the team from last season and had correctly identified that others were not good enough so those also had to go or be omitted, players such as Nzogbia, Baker, Senderos, Bent, Weimann, Kozack etc etc 

Lets not forget that but for Sherwoods arrival and the bounce it created we would surely have now been a Championship side.. We survived by the skin of our teeth.

50m was nowhere near enough for such major surgery as we are now finding out. We needed to spend that just to replace Benteke, Vlaar, Cleverley & Delph! As it is i think we have just about replaced:

Delph (Gana)

Vlaar (Richards)

Weimann (Ayew)

Given ??????

Benteke ???????????????????

Bent ?????

Kozack (Gestede)

Cleverley ?????

Nzogbia (Traore)

So for me with the 50m those departures generated, we have not even adequately replaced Benteke, Given, Cleverley or Senderos or even Bent for that matter who had goals in him!

The lack of actual investment by the wantaway owner is crippling the club and will likely see us relegated and deservedly so...keep playing with fire & all that!

 

                     I think your analysis is fair.....personally, I have an issue with the character of the side, that may be largely down to so many foreign imports.....but there again i do see character in the likes of saido Mane, Andre Ayew, Praet

[TRO]

That's just my thoughts, call it absurd if you wish Stevo but fact is we are relegation candidates as it stands so the 50m clearly didn't have the desired impact and for me it was just not enough to replace the entire spine of the team as well as strengthen the rest of the squad!

It is absurd.

And we're relegation candidates right now because we're being badly managed. Sherwood actually bought well, imo. He's managing the team poorly.

Ironic that he is seemingly trying to discredit the one area of the job the fans think he has done well

                    think, being the operative word, time may prove that wasn't so good either.

[StefanAVFC]

Overall the squad is better than it was last year. Just need someone to manage them properly.

Disagree with this. We have replaced Lowton with Crespo, Baker with Ilori, Vlaar with Richards, Senderos with Lescott,Delph with Gana, Cleverley with Veretout, Benteke with Gestede and Weimann with Ayew. I'm failing to see any level of improvement apart from Richards coming in.

Because. of. the. manager.

It really isn't hard to grasp.

[VillaCas]

The net spend isn't relevant as such but i think it's crazy to say he "had 50m to spend" as though had it to spend to improve the team we ended last season with as that wasn't quite the case was it!

From the struggling team he inherited he lost Benteke, Delph, Cleverley, Vlaar and Given. Those were the best players at this club!!  On top of that he had to try to actually improve on the team from last season and had correctly identified that others were not good enough so those also had to go or be omitted, players such as Nzogbia, Baker, Senderos, Bent, Weimann, Kozack etc etc 

Lets not forget that but for Sherwoods arrival and the bounce it created we would surely have now been a Championship side.. We survived by the skin of our teeth.

50m was nowhere near enough for such major surgery as we are now finding out. We needed to spend that just to replace Benteke, Vlaar, Cleverley & Delph! As it is i think we have just about replaced:

Delph (Gana)

Vlaar (Richards)

Weimann (Ayew)

Given ??????

Benteke ???????????????????

Bent ?????

Kozack (Gestede)

Cleverley ?????

Nzogbia (Traore)

So for me with the 50m those departures generated, we have not even adequately replaced Benteke, Given, Cleverley or Senderos or even Bent for that matter who had goals in him!

The lack of actual investment by the wantaway owner is crippling the club and will likely see us relegated and deservedly so...keep playing with fire & all that!

 

                     I think your analysis is fair.....personally, I have an issue with the character of the side, that may be largely down to so many foreign imports.....but there again i do see character in the likes of saido Mane, Andre Ayew, Praet

Benteke is a real loss but he is a once-in-a-generation player and impossible to replace like for like - we've spent £15m to try and remains to be seen whether that will be enough (...it won't be).  Benteke is in my opinion the main reason why we stayed up last season. Sherwood lucked into a world class striker coming back into form

It's a matter of opinion regarding the rest of the players you mention and there are quite a few red herrings in there

- Bent effectively was not part of the squad for some time so its a little misleading to suggest that he needed replacing,

- Kozak and Zog are still avialable to Sherwood, so again need no for replacement.

- Senderos never played for Sherwood and would have been available for him if he wished so again no replacement needed. 

- Vlaar was past his sell-by date and Weimann was not to the required standard - I think given the choice most fans would stick with Richards and Ayew rather than go back to Vlaar and Weimann

- Given is no great loss and Bunn plus Sarkic is more than a fair swap

- Traore, Amavi, Gana (prior to his injury) and Vertout look quality and a real upgrade to the squad

- Lescott has had a crap start in a crap team. He was WBA player of the year last year. There is every chance that in a settled, organised side under an experienced competent manager he will return to form

- Iioro didnt suit Rodgers but is highly regarded in his home country

- Grealish is reaching maturity and (if correctly handled) should become a better player with each passing game. We also have three or four academy players who have the ability to contribute when called upon (and we all know how good Tim is with the youngsters!! Look at Harry Kane!!)

We can argue until the cows come home whether we are overall better, the same or worse. The fact remains that last season the overwhelming majority felt that we were underperforming under Lambert and again the overwhelming majority in the summer felt that this was an excellent transfer window

Our gross and net spend was three times what Stoke spent and yet we set up against them like they were Real Madrid

Our squad is comfortably better than at least half a dozen teams and with a proper manager we should be sitting mid-table

It's not the players its the manager

 

[Villarocker]

Get Frank De Boer in, he'll teach the players how to play total football Ajax of the 90's Style.

We have already tried the Dutch style in 2011/12

Yes, but you need a dutchman as manager for it to work.

Danny Blind is Dutch and will probably be available shortly, would you want him?

Dick Advocaat is free

Unfortunately, this begs a question; would you rather take Dick or go Blind?

I'd rather keep Sherwood or go back to the Lambert or McLeish days if they were our only options

[Richard]

Have we spent enough to be competing above 10th? Not this year no

Have we spent enough to have gotten better results than we have so far ? Yes

Should we be in the position we are in given the players we have acquired ? No

[AvfcTheObsession]

I think most fans would be happy with 11th-14/15th this year playing decent football and improving our home record, Sherwood has us 18th and with 0 wins in 4 games at home so is failing and by the end of the month we will be over 1/4 of the way through the season.

[AstonMartyn88]

Feels like we're (in this topic) just twiddling our thumbs and making conversation/arguments for the sake of it (and making the same points over and over again). We know he's going, we know it started well and went south, we know he's a charlatan and we know he's going soon. Can't wait to just put this miserable experiment behind us

[Richard]

yes i'm beyond Sherwood now,  he is an ex manager I'm just wondering who the new guy will be

[tylerreznik]

Bit late to the Lambert v Sherwood party, but...

Lambert managed to guide Norwich to back to back promotions from L1 to the Prem, and then secured a mid table finish for them, not many managers will come close to matching that sort of record.  It's a record to be proud off and regardless of how badly his reign at Villa Park finished.  Sherwood won't come close to matching that sort of record, of that I'm sure.

Sadly Lambert joined us at the worse possible time, working under a poor ceo, with the club seemingly having a mandate to slash playing staff costs and unwind the excess of the MON era.  Whereas Sherwood has joined right as we start to get some structure back in place, working under a capable ceo, and with most of the overpaid average players washed out of the club, vastly different circumstances.

I agree Lambert would have got us relegated last year, of that I have absolutely no doubt, however that does't mean he a is 'worse' manager than Sherwood.  The pressure and weight of expectation simply got too much for him, I think he'll resurface somewhere in the not too distant future and do an ok job.

[supermon]

Has he gone yet

[omariqy]

Lambert will go down as one of the worst managers we have had in our history. Well at least top 5. Please let's forget him.

[AshVilla]

Don't know why were waiting 2 weeks to sack him

Brendan probably needs a holiday before he returns

[VillaCas]

Lambert will go down as one of the worst managers we have had in our history. Well at least top 5. Please let's forget him.

Not even close, but that's for another thread

A very decent bloke doing his best at a very difficult job - comfortably head and shoulders above Sherwood

but agree lets move on from Lambert now

Edited October 14, 2015 by VillaCas

[Isa]

At least Sherwood has the *slight* excuse that he is still ultimately a greenhorn and hasn't even had a full season in management yet. Lambert was in charge for almost three seasons and overall, the team and the football continually regressed throughout his reign. The guy was hopeless and a complete fraud. 

[useless]

Has he gone yet

Not yet but Trent and Stevo seem to think he's 'dead man walking', so it there's a good chance that it's only a matter of time now.