The Tim Sherwood Thread

[gharperr]

Surprised you didnt throw in a FM-related insult there.

[Vive_La_Villa]

You can't see it because you clearly don't understand how important positional sense is in football. Hence why you don't rate Kozak, hence why you can't see anything wrong with Richards at CB.

Ohhhh, you didn't go there??

[dn1982]

You can't see it because you clearly don't understand how important positional sense is in football. Hence why you don't rate Kozak, hence why you can't see anything wrong with Richards at CB.

You clearly don't know positional sense as we may have played the same team as Bournemouth but it wasn't the same shape but if you realised that it wouldn't fit in with your anti Sherwood thinking. We may have lost narrowly but we weren't outplayed and could easily have got a draw. We had our most creative players out and our main striker on the bench as he's not fit enough yet.

[dont_do_it_doug.]

You can't see it because you clearly don't understand how important positional sense is in football. Hence why you don't rate Kozak, hence why you can't see anything wrong with Richards at CB.

1) I do. Maybe I haven't made myself clear to you. Positional sense without service is pointless against the quality of opposition we faced on Monday. We had to try and make things happen, we failed. I don't see how Kozak would have changed that by movement alone. The burden of proof is on you in this case, demonstrate how he would have changed the dynamic.

As I said, if Kozak is the answer then I hope the shelf life to the question is very short.

2) "Anything wrong" is quite a wide reaching statement. I think he has played well but could stand to improve in other areas. We have a thread for him. For what it's worth I think it is the correct decision to play him at centre half, yes.

[Zatman]

You can't see it because you clearly don't understand how important positional sense is in football. Hence why you don't rate Kozak, hence why you can't see anything wrong with Richards at CB. 

 

Hello Jose

[Xela]

I think we should judge Sherwood after 10 games or so considering his first game was against a team playing for the first time ever in the league and the second game against a team that cost double the price to assemble than our whole club is worth!

 

Stop with your sensible posts! 

 

We demand instant results in 2 games with a whole new squad. Time to settle? No way! 

 

[Eastie]

Will take time to gel but I'm encouraged by Tim's dealings this summer - feel we will be mid table this season and kick on from there next summer.

[Butterfingers]

 

You can't see it because you clearly don't understand how important positional sense is in football. Hence why you don't rate Kozak, hence why you can't see anything wrong with Richards at CB. 

 

Hello Jose

 

 

In fairness to Jose, I doubt he'd suggest Kozak as a realistic option to bring on against Man U.

[Dodgyknees]

We will be fine this year. Players need to settle and they need time, it'll be a bumpy road till then.

[briny_ear]

Now he needs to show he can take us forward.

And, ideally, would be allowed more than. a couple of matches to do that.

But I guess, this being Villatalk, he won't be allowed.

[ccfcman]

If we had a predominantly Lambert team, with his negative tactics on show and still at the helm would we be any more or less aggrieved at this point?

Sure there was so much more hope going into a Manure game than usual due to the signings but we're in a frankly great position, so much more positives it is astounding. I reckon all of our forwards, Gabby included, will have so much more to offer once even one of Jack & Gil and "the boy Traore" are let loose. I think actually we'll soon forget our forward woes. Regardless of Ayew or Rudys current fitness they're gonna see so much more ball the second we get our flair players back.

Tim has a tough task indeed but he has certainly made the job easier for himself with the signings and belief in players. We won't quite win the league this year but with a fit squad we're gonna have plenty of fun this season.

Don't get me wrong, I think we look like we concede 4 or 5 with regularity but goal scoring shouldn't be an issue (he says having the grand sum total of 1 goal to our name)

[VILLAMARV]

Got a win away on the opening day. Lost to Man Utd. He's doing fine by that marker. I don't honestly think anyone knows how the next 2 weeks will go but I think he's played a blinder in his first transfer window already regardless of his fine tuning now. Helped in no small part to a certain £40m admittedly. He's picked us all up. He feels like a breath of fresh air. He gives good interview. He kept us up. Ticking all the boxes so far.

There is a time when this becomes largely irrelevant though and that is whatever time kick off is. No-one is getting over the top as far as I can see. 2 games in as we are is another mans 5% of the season gone already after all.

 

Ive really warmed to the guy. He's still a clearing but he's our clearing. I still dont think having said all that that the front 3 have been very good or that he made the right subs at the right time however well organised Man Utd were, and I agree that they were.

[dont_do_it_doug.]

I don't think there has been an Aston Villa manager, at least not as long as I have been a fan, to have been praised unanimously for making the right subs at the right time. We all see the game differently and I tend to think that as long as they are being pro-active and I can see some semblance of sense in it I'm happy enough.

[jim]

Now he needs to show he can take us forward.

And, ideally, would be allowed more than. a couple of matches to do that.

But I guess, this being Villatalk, he won't be allowed.

This.

Needs to be given at least a full season imo.

[Vive_La_Villa]

Tactics, team selection, subs are all based on the final result. You win they were good, you lose the manager **** up. Let's just see how we get on after a few games hey.

[GeordieVillan]

Based on the first 2 games, I don't see how Tim has really done anything wrong.

 

If we were lucky to win at Bournemouth with a goal from a set piece, we were unlucky to lose a deflected goal on Friday. Swings and roundabouts - either way - its better we won one and lost one rather than drawing both 0-0.

 

Tim's assessment of the current position is also hard to disagree with - we look decent at the back (not great, but decent) considering Richards and Amavi are new to the club. We havn't quite clicked going forward, but we are missing all 3 of our flair players, one of whom we have only just signed.

 

Nothing to see here yet folks, keep your powder dry on Sherwood for now at least!

[HanoiVillan]

Potentially backing up lexicon in this argument, here was Michael Cox of Zonal Marking, writing in the Guardian after the game:

 

Aston Villa’s striking similarities show up Tim Sherwood’s tactics

Jordan Ayew and Gabriel Agbonlahor formed an unashamedly one-dimensional combination in attack for Aston Villa, drastically limiting their options against Manchester United

 

Everyone is still trying to deduce what type of manager Tim Sherwood is – and perhaps that extends to Sherwood himself.

 

Initially cast as a simple, back-to-basics manager who was inspired by Harry Redknapp’s minimalist approach to tactics, Sherwood has nevertheless occasionally shown an ability to execute an intelligent plan – last season’s FA Cup semi-final victory over Liverpool, for example, was hugely impressive. Then there are performances like this, when one struggles to understand the logic behind his approach.

 

Sherwood started with a 4-4-2 system, a brave move against a Manchester United side packing the midfield zone with intelligent passers and incisive playmakers in a 4-2-3-1 formation. There was a danger Villa would simply be outnumbered in the middle. That did not happen, because both Villa forwards – Gabriel Agbonlahor and Jordan Ayew – performed their defensive duties well, communicating constantly and taking it in turns to block off passes into Michael Carrick and Morgan Schneiderlin.

 

A problem, however, arose when Villa had possession. Ayew and Agbonlahor are similar forwards – quick, direct but often frustrating with the timing of their runs, limited in terms of hold-up play and simply not particularly prolific. Using two limited players together made little sense and meant Villa were remarkably basic in possession, with no hint of intelligent build-up play involving the forwards.

 

Such an unashamedly one-dimensional combination might work against a ludicrously high defensive line (say, André Villas-Boas-era Chelsea) but against an organised defence it made little sense. It was particularly surprising that Sherwood did not start Rudy Gestede, a tremendous aerial threat, against a slight and inexperienced centre-back like Daley Blind.

 

One moment, at the start of the second half, summarised the similarity between Ayew and Agbonlahor. The left-back Jordan Amavi made a sudden dart down the touchline – something Villa fans will become accustomed to this season – and fired a decent cross into the box. But both centre-forwards had made exactly the same run, towards the far post. Neither got on the end of the cross, and Ayew complained to Agbonlahor for not varying his position. Maybe they simply need work on their relationship but such problems seemed inevitable from the moment the team was picked.

 

Villa’s forwards were doing their defensive tasks well but contributing little in attack. It seemed bizarrely un-Sherwood – a manager who revitalised Christian Benteke last season by instructing him to focus on attacking rather than wasting his energy defending, a manager who memorably said at Tottenham that he wanted "attackers to attack, defenders to defend, and midfielders to play midfield". 

 

Other features seemed well-meaning but not entirely logical. Midfielder Idrissa Gueye dropped between the centre-backs, allowing them to spread and the full-backs to push forward, but it’s doubtful whether Villa have the passing quality to justify this temporary change of system. The energetic approach without the ball, meanwhile, caused tiredness at a worryingly early stage.

 

This was hardly a disastrous performance and after the loss of key players and recruitment of a host of Premier League newcomers a period of adjustment at Villa Park was inevitable. The question, though, is whether Sherwood has a grand plan, or whether he is still searching for his own coaching identity.

Edited August 16, 2015 by HanoiVillan

[wazzap24]

Good article that.

[GeordieVillan]

Good article that.

 

You reckon? I think its utter garbage.

 

His entire argument is based on the 2 players making the same run for one Amavi cross - thats nothing to do with Tim's formation or approach. He also states that Gana shouldn't have been dropping deep to collect the ball - well given Man Utd were pressing us so high up the pitch and our centre backs weren't able to bring the ball out, surely he was correct to ask one of the midfielders to drop in there and get the ball? How else would we get the ball forward, lumping it forward to the 2 strikers which he said can't hold the ball up?

 

Our only other option was Gestede, but it seems he's not quite ready to start yet. Who else would be realistic up front rather than those two?

 

We had plenty of the ball, but struggled to play an incisive pass because none of our creative players were available against a very well organised and efficient Man Utd team.

 

I feel sorry for Tim sometimes - he has been cast as some kind of tactical simpleton, because I think when we has at Spurs he used the resources at his disposal and set up with a very aggressive and expansive 4-4-2, rather than playing a number 10 behind a lone striker - he is somehow mocked for this despite it actually working quite well at Spurs.

 

The article also seems to suggest Tim doesn't have an identity because he varies our system and tries different things. Again, I think this is rubbish - if Martinez or some other flavour of the month did that they would be praised for having different ideas and using a different approach to suit the opposition (to be fair, at least he recognises Tim set us up effectively in the Cup Semi Final).

[darrenm]

Good article that.

I thought it was awful. I think he saw the exact same thing all of us saw which was Gabby and Ayew both run to the *near* post (not far as he said) and then decide, as a few other people have, that it meant they were both doing the exact same things all match and are too similar.