The Careers/Jobs thread

[Demitri_C]

15 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

For some working in an office may be more productive but I have found it to be the opposite and have found myself to be more productive working from home.

I have older children (they were 14 and 22 at start of covid/when started working from home) so don't have the distraction I can imagine could come with younger children around the house. The positive I have found though is that I don't get other people in the office wandering over to my desk disturbing me with a work related issue or wanting to chat about last nights footie. I also don't now have to be distracted by someone waffling on about last nights Corrie, what they had for tea or what they'll be having for lunch. I'm guessing I am saving 1-2 hours a day not being distracted by none work conversations or loosing my train of thought because some one walking past my desk decided to ask me about something.

I think if your conscientious you'll be working just as hard from home, if not harder, than you were when you worked in the office. If when you were in the office you spent most of your time looking busy but not being very productive it just means by working from home you don't have to pretend to look busy anymore. 

 

I agree with you mark. Its a fact we work better at home in my team. As we go in once a month we usually just catch chat talk about football or some other nonsense. Then wehn they look at the figures compared to the fays at home the management have opely admitted we are more productive at home.

But yet the trust wants to get everyone back in. 

[Xela]

There is definitely some serious pressure being put on companies to get offices full again. I'd guess the Government pushing it? Got to keep those big commercial landlords sweet. 

Ultimately, when a big business talks about staff's mental wellbeing and quality of life, along with sustainability, it is all lip service. They don't give a shit about staff. Net zero? Nah, we'll make people drive into an office, or drive to a train station 3/4 days a week to do a job they can do better and quicker at home. 

I get the need to go in every now and again, and I do it once or sometimes twice a week. The decision is mine though. If other people want to go in every day, they can. As long as you are doing your job well and the business is performing well, then it should remain flexible. 

I'm far more productive at home. I class a day in the office as a dead day as I get very little done - too much chatting! 

 

[cheltenham_villa]

4 hours ago, Xela said:

There is definitely some serious pressure being put on companies to get offices full again. I'd guess the Government pushing it? Got to keep those big commercial landlords sweet. 

Ultimately, when a big business talks about staff's mental wellbeing and quality of life, along with sustainability, it is all lip service. They don't give a shit about staff. Net zero? Nah, we'll make people drive into an office, or drive to a train station 3/4 days a week to do a job they can do better and quicker at home. 

I get the need to go in every now and again, and I do it once or sometimes twice a week. The decision is mine though. If other people want to go in every day, they can. As long as you are doing your job well and the business is performing well, then it should remain flexible. 

I'm far more productive at home. I class a day in the office as a dead day as I get very little done - too much chatting! 

 

I think there is something in that around property and landlords. So many large pension funds are heavily invested in buildings that are leased commercially. 

[Stevo985]

It all depends. Sometimes I'm more productive at home. If I really have to get my head down and get stuff done then being at home on my own is far better.

For other things I need to be in the office.

The distinction is I'm not a moron, so I have the ability to make that call myself. If I need to be in the office then I'll be in the office. And I trust the people who work for me to make that call as well.

Treat people like they know what they're doing until they give you a reason not to.

[VILLAMARV]

Of all the group identities I hate, and I do hate group identities, the 'people working from home being lazy watching the telly' group is one of the ones I hate the most. I don't work from home fwiw. But it's just lazy bigotry. I think it says a lot about the people who voice it. Individuals have very different work ethics, different jobs have different requirements on time, others would be very difficult to measure in terms of productivity.

Punching down is what it's about imho. Creating sub-status groups to elevate ones sense of self. A bit like Jeremy Kyle.

[Seat68]

My work has peaks and troughs, you can tell when its in a trough as I am on VT more. Currently its fairly busy so although I am reading, I am not posting a massive amount. The telly never goes on, if its quiet or not. 

[Genie]

16 minutes ago, VILLAMARV said:

Of all the group identities I hate, and I do hate group identities, the 'people working from home being lazy watching the telly' group is one of the ones I hate the most. I don't work from home fwiw. But it's just lazy bigotry. I think it says a lot about the people who voice it. Individuals have very different work ethics, different jobs have different requirements on time, others would be very difficult to measure in terms of productivity.

Punching down is what it's about imho. Creating sub-status groups to elevate ones sense of self. A bit like Jeremy Kyle.

Our local council moved a lot of people to WFH (so they could sell the expensive offices in town) and according to social media everything that is wrong is because the staff are at home watching the TV. 

Everything was perfect a couple of years ago…

[mikeyp102]

I’m in a leadership role, and it can certainly be easier having people in the office, especially new starters. But I also find when I do go in the office these days I’m less productive in actual work, as I’ll do 121s etc in person which take up time but are useful for the team 

[chrisp65]

Absolutely what @mikeyp102 said.

I go in to the office to sort out stuff for others, once I think they’re sorted and my own work has backed up sufficiently I go home where I can actually do my own work.

But it has become quite apparent there are those that are more productive at home, starting earlier rather than commuting, checking and following up emails rather than commuting home again.

But there are also a small majority who take the piss AND presume that’s what we all do on wfh, right? Had to give someone a first informal little warning yesterday. They were given the ok to work from home last Friday but didn’t actually notice they weren’t set up to work from home until mid afternoon. It’s that sort of bollocks that then spoils it for the other 8 people in the team that make excellent use of the flexibility.

 

[Seat68]

I have a team of 5 on this contract, its now down to 2. The reason was they would disappear, not turn up to meetings, literally disappear. It got to the the point that I couldn't cover for them and the other 2 were having to do their work. They were all very young and as a result, I feel didn't have the self discipline.

[Demitri_C]

Can i ask the people working from home can you woek any hours you want as long as its 7.5 hours for example?

In my role its been do whatever hours you want as long as you do allo ated hours. Been this way for 3 years now all of a sudden for no apparent reason they ahve told ua we have to do either 9-5 or 10-6. Ive been doing 6-2 so as you can imagine its very annoying and frustrating 

[Genie]

15 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Can i ask the people working from home can you woek any hours you want as long as its 7.5 hours for example?

In my role its been do whatever hours you want as long as you do allo ated hours. Been this way for 3 years now all of a sudden for no apparent reason they ahve told ua we have to do either 9-5 or 10-6. Ive been doing 6-2 so as you can imagine its very annoying and frustrating 

I work the same hours at home as I do in the office, 7-3:30 (although I tend to actually log-off 4/4:30 if I’m busy).

I much prefer to start early and finish early, and most other people work that way.

[Seat68]

My hours, self imposed is 7-5.30, every other week during term time I will take an hour off each day for the school run. If I was in the office I would be reliant on office opening hours, when I was at L&G in Solihull that was 8.30 till 5pm, when I worked in West Brom it was a 24 hour office so that suited me greatly. I am up early so like to take advantage of the hours that people are unlikely to be messaging me.

[StefanAVFC]

1 hour ago, Seat68 said:

I have a team of 5 on this contract, its now down to 2. The reason was they would disappear, not turn up to meetings, literally disappear. It got to the the point that I couldn't cover for them and the other 2 were having to do their work. They were all very young and as a result, I feel didn't have the self discipline.

This is just gross misconduct, nothing to do with work discipline. Just general failing at life.

[Seat68]

2 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

This is just gross misconduct, nothing to do with work discipline. Just general failing at life.

You are right, they are grads and they have only known remote working. They are on the bench at the moment waiting to be placed with their next client and I had to write a review as to why I didnt want them on this project and also what their next project should expect. It wasn't flattering, I think if they weren't grads they would have been sacked.

[Davkaus]

It's full flexitime in my team, as long as you're there for meetings, do your hours and get the job done, we leave people to it.

I do 4 day weeks so I'll typically do 7-17, but if the little one is kicking off I'll often take her for a couple of hours in the day over a long lunch, still finish at 17, but do an extra hour or so in the evening after bedtime.

Presenteeism was a huge problem in the office, it can be even more of one WFH because if you're amber on your workplace comms, it can feel like you're being judged because you're clearly not working. It's taken a very long time to get away from that mindset. I've mentioned before I have a big old whiteboard up in my office and I'll often be amber for half an hour while I've been stood there mapping things out, or I'll just post "stuck, going out for a walk, call if you need me", which to me is often still working time, I'm getting some fresh air but my mind is 100% on the problem.

Sometimes when I'm green, I'm dossing on VT or Reddit, sometimes when I'm amber for an hour, it's the hardest I've been working all day, but I'm sure there are some companies that are already reporting on idle time thinking they're measuring productivity.

[Stevo985]

3 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

Can i ask the people working from home can you woek any hours you want as long as its 7.5 hours for example?

In my role its been do whatever hours you want as long as you do allo ated hours. Been this way for 3 years now all of a sudden for no apparent reason they ahve told ua we have to do either 9-5 or 10-6. Ive been doing 6-2 so as you can imagine its very annoying and frustrating 

Technically no, but managers use their discretion. I basically let my team work their hours whenever. And I don't particularly care about their hours as long as the work gets done.

If someone is taking the piss then I'll change things for them. But so far nobody has. 

[Demitri_C]

4 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Technically no, but managers use their discretion. I basically let my team work their hours whenever. And I don't particularly care about their hours as long as the work gets done.

If someone is taking the piss then I'll change things for them. But so far nobody has. 

Thats the kind of management style i like and i am in favour of and i bet a majority of your team work well becauseof this way.

I couldnt care less if u do work at midnight as long as its done. Our team has worked wonderfully during covid and performance hasnt dropped. Yet they pissing us all off now and morales taking a hit.

Ill never understand why managers do this. Once morale goes performance goes to shit

[Xela]

6 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

Can i ask the people working from home can you woek any hours you want as long as its 7.5 hours for example?

In my role its been do whatever hours you want as long as you do allo ated hours. Been this way for 3 years now all of a sudden for no apparent reason they ahve told ua we have to do either 9-5 or 10-6. Ive been doing 6-2 so as you can imagine its very annoying and frustrating 

No, as I manage client relationships, I generally need to be around during the traditional working hours. I'll probably cover 8am-6pm but may have a few hours 'away' in the day doing shopping at the supermarket, or doing my washing/cleaning or something else. Even when I'm not in front of my screen, I have my phone with me so can answer calls, reply to emails and Teams instant messages. 

[desensitized43]

12 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

Thats the kind of management style i like and i am in favour of and i bet a majority of your team work well becauseof this way.

I couldnt care less if u do work at midnight as long as its done. Our team has worked wonderfully during covid and performance hasnt dropped. Yet they pissing us all off now and morales taking a hit.

Ill never understand why managers do this. Once morale goes performance goes to shit

My philosophy as a manager is that it’s totally outcome driven. As long as the works done and the clients are happy - and yes you do need ways to track both of those things - then if you need to nip out to get the kids from school or run down to the shops for milk then I’m totally fine with that.

I have spoken to managers in my field that track hours and insist people make up time at the end of days and things like that but I think a lot of it is insecurities within the managers themselves that they need to do this to justify themselves to those above them or that if they give an inch staff take a mile. Generally I feel if you have the right kind of people working for you then being flexible and not micromanaging gives better outcomes and happier staff.

I had one guy who insisted people needed to come back to the office “because the place looks so dead and depressing with no one here” and “how do we know people are actually working and not playing call of duty”. I said that in none of his arguments why staff should come back did he ever consider the staff themselves it was all about appearance, lack of trust and general presenteeism. Nothing about what was best for them or any actual data to suggest work wasn’t being done or clients were suffering.