Mantis Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 There's a big difference between regular season kit changes and what they'd most likely do. Also, if they did what they did to other clubs the badge change would be on a completely different level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted November 18, 2013 Moderator Share Posted November 18, 2013 Part of why I like Lerner is because he strengthened the identity of the club, not diminished it. He did more in his first 6 months in the job than Ellis had done in the 24 or so years of his second stint in charge. So for me yes money is great but it is certainly not the only consideration and as I've already said, the end doesn't justify the means.If anyone thinks Red Bull would come in and make small changes then they're deluded. But anyway, this is all hypothetical so there's no point in me getting worked up about it :-) It's just quite revealing as to what people think and what they'd like. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islingtonclaret Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 I don't normally do this, but I get the kind of feeling that nothing that happens at Aston Villa Football Club will actually ever satisfy you. My opinion on this is that it's not worth giving up a history since 1874 to be renamed 'Red Bull Aston Villa', etc etc. Despite my younger age and ignorance of history, Red Bull can take their dough and do one. I do not want my club to be the experiment to see if American franchise-style takeovers and makeovers are possible. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 I don't normally do this, but I get the kind of feeling that nothing that happens at Aston Villa Football Club will actually ever satisfy you. My opinion on this is that it's not worth giving up a history since 1874 to be renamed 'Red Bull Aston Villa', etc etc. Despite my younger age and ignorance of history, Red Bull can take their dough and do one. I do not want my club to be the experiment to see if American franchise-style takeovers and makeovers are possible. I was very happy for the first few years under Lerner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Part of why I like Lerner is because he strengthened the identity of the club, not diminished it. He did more in his first 6 months in the job than Ellis had done in the 24 or so years of his second stint in charge Which now looks like clever pr which seems to have worked perfectly with a certain group of fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 Why is it when anyone doesn't hold a completely negative view of Lerner they're just dismissed as buying into propaganda or PR? It's incredibly condescending. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coda Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 We should start on some new chants for our Red Bull overlords: And it's Aston Red Bull Aston Red Bull FC We're by far the greatest drink Your thirst has ever seen 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted November 19, 2013 Moderator Share Posted November 19, 2013 Part of why I like Lerner is because he strengthened the identity of the club, not diminished it. He did more in his first 6 months in the job than Ellis had done in the 24 or so years of his second stint in charge Which now looks like clever pr which seems to have worked perfectly with a certain group of fans.That might make sense in an insulting kind of way (thanks btw) if his clever PR wasn't followed by tens of millions in investment and a failure on MON's part to get us the CL spot that Lerner had bankrolled and is only now recovering from while maintaining our league status (QPR says hi). But look let's face it, no amount of what I say will convince you away from the mindset you have about Lerner. And our attitudes towards a Red Bull takeover only serve to further demonstrate that when it comes to Aston Villa, us two are miles apart in our outlook. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 (edited) I'm not sure spending money proves how much you care. Look at Mike Ashley, stupid decisions still make him hated. The use of the general on this very site shows the level of pr he put in place. Recovering from Mon or recovering from the two wasted years that followed? The fact that's your argument and even now you've ignored what happened after kind of shows the effect this pr campaign had had. Yes I think we are miles apart. That's pretty obvious. Edited November 19, 2013 by Big_John_10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMilnereatsnails Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 I want this to happen just to watch people completely lose their shit.Unfortunately the only premier league team Red Bull will buy would be Newcastle, as Mike Ashley's final parting gift to the Geordies. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted November 19, 2013 Moderator Share Posted November 19, 2013 OK then, I've been reading this topic without adding anything as yet. But here's something to think about. What would William McGregor do? It seems like an easy enough question to answer. You'd think that as the main who laid the foundations for our history and heritage he'd protect fiercely if he were here today. But would he really? Aston Villa were once pioneers. In our era of success, and I mean sustained success, we were constantly striving for better. For the first 13 years of our history the kit wasn't claret and blue at all. In fact it included black, red and blue hoops, even cow print style piebald. We were in an ever growing stadium - but for the first World War we'd have had a Villa Park, or Aston Lower Grounds, with a capacity of over 100,000. We weren't about history when we were truly successful, we were about change. Change in the name of growth and success. That's what football clubs are about after all. The game now has moved on, and we're reluctant to go with it because of our history. In the last 100 years we've won the league once and FA Cup twice. Yes, we were Champions of Europe over 30 years ago and have won the league cup a few times. But what hope of winning winning the Champions League now? None at all. Are we as fans so concerned with preserving our history because it's all we have? With no imminent chance of success we are keen to protect that which we once had, much of which wasn't even in our father's lifetime. I'm not saying I agree, and for all the money Manchester City and PSG etc have spent the impact on the "tradition" isn't what would likely happen if Red Bull took over, but what would William McGregor do? He created pioneers, innovators, and brought success. Isn't that tradition he would seek to preserve? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 You have to ask yourself though - what hope would we have of winning the Champions League under Red Bull? Probably not a great deal more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillakevBromsgrove Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 (edited) seems a good move to me, Lambert likes the players playing a high energy game. As long as we do not change the name Aston Villa then it doesn't really bother me. Villa bull park has a ring to it. Do not think it will happen though due to FFP rules and the big boys voting to put a stop to it to protect themselves and their position. We talk about history but in reallity this history was before alot of our fans were born. I would like to see us successful and doing well before i pop me clogs and personally dont give a hoot how we do it. Why should we not have a big team well funded in the midlands, Manchester, London Scouseland all have one. The reason Wembley did not end up in the midlands was due to London Bias and if Red Bull took over us and turned us into a team capable of stiffing the Londoners then I would love it. We are seen as a joke by anybody outside of Birmingham and this would change it, would we be a plastic team ten yes maybe, no more than MAN U, Man C, Chelsea, so who cares, please be honest, would you rather stand on the terraces and watch average footballers or rather see top names showing skills we can only dream of and on top of this be the favorites to win and not loose. I remember when we won the league, watching the players and the team from the stands expecting to win was fantastic exciting and fun, this is what we dont have now, yes we can say we are doing it the right way but why should we when others dont, why should we be the young team from Brum. On another note, did Man C fan attendance go down or up after the takeover, pretty sure most of them aint complaining now, Man Utd have so many fans because of what they have won recently not in the past, they are seen as the club to support for young kids, hell most of their fans aint even from Manchester. Edited November 19, 2013 by VillakevBromsgrove Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted November 19, 2013 Moderator Share Posted November 19, 2013 OK then, I've been reading this topic without adding anything as yet. But here's something to think about. What would William McGregor do? It seems like an easy enough question to answer. You'd think that as the main who laid the foundations for our history and heritage he'd protect fiercely if he were here today. But would he really? Aston Villa were once pioneers. In our era of success, and I mean sustained success, we were constantly striving for better. For the first 13 years of our history the kit wasn't claret and blue at all. In fact it included black, red and blue hoops, even cow print style piebald. We were in an ever growing stadium - but for the first World War we'd have had a Villa Park, or Aston Lower Grounds, with a capacity of over 100,000. We weren't about history when we were truly successful, we were about change. Change in the name of growth and success. That's what football clubs are about after all. The game now has moved on, and we're reluctant to go with it because of our history. In the last 100 years we've won the league once and FA Cup twice. Yes, we were Champions of Europe over 30 years ago and have won the league cup a few times. But what hope of winning winning the Champions League now? None at all. Are we as fans so concerned with preserving our history because it's all we have? With no imminent chance of success we are keen to protect that which we once had, much of which wasn't even in our father's lifetime. I'm not saying I agree, and for all the money Manchester City and PSG etc have spent the impact on the "tradition" isn't what would likely happen if Red Bull took over, but what would William McGregor do? He created pioneers, innovators, and brought success. Isn't that tradition he would seek to preserve? Thought provoking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Platt Posted November 19, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted November 19, 2013 Just to play devils advocate for a minute. If I was Red Bull and wanted to invest money in the Premier League i would just buy the naming rights next time they are up for tender. The Red Bull Premier league that gets beamed across the globe they could have any of the 20 teams badges on cans and merchandise and would not alienate anyone in particular. All this would cost a lot less than buying one club and trying to make it successful. I would love Villa to compete at the highest level again but not by selling our soul. You can say Chelsea, Man City et el have sold their soul for success but I disagree they will still be in the history books as winners like we are. There will be no footnote got lucky with a windfall and you can see already the next generation of fans, the kids of today not caring one iota how they achieved their success but just that they are winners. Yanks the crank of older fans like myself that remember football pre Sky but it's progress just in the eyes of the older generation unfair progress. I guess what I am saying is its Aston Villa FC Mr Mega Money or do one. You don't mess with 139 years of History. Any name change would kill our soul. You can't rewrite history to say Red Bull Villa won the European Cup in 1982 and all our other honours. Because any buyer is buying all that. Remember Doug Ellis tried to forget we won the highest honour because he was not in charge at the time! Randy for all his failings does get the history. I am sure he would not sell us without certain criteria. I am sure he would want us to challenge again but only as Aston Villa Football Club. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villan4Life Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 http://metro.co.uk/2013/11/18/why-aston-villa-fans-should-have-no-thirst-for-any-red-bull-takeover-4191426/ Metro are covering the rumours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCforever1991 Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 Looks like the Metro have been browsing VT... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 You have to ask yourself though - what hope would we have of winning the Champions League under Red Bull? Probably not a great deal more. Indeed. Real Madrid cannot win the Champions League and they have thrown almost a billion pounds at transfer fees (I dread to think what the cost is including wages) in the last ten years. Red Bull might be able to buy it's way to Champions League qualification but I think it might have missed the boat in terms of delivering silverware. Even the Premier League title has Chelsea, Manchester City and Manchester United all in the way with equal, if not greater financial muscle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chakal Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 ok, hypothetical question: Red Bull buys f.e. Juventus. Do you think that they would change the name or colours? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LockStockVilla Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 While I get where people are coming from when they say that getting taken over by Red Bull would destroy our history or would be selling the club's soul, I can't help but disagree a bit. No matter what, as supporters of the club, we know and have pride in our history. That European Cup along with a host of other trophies are still in our cabinets. Villa Park could change its name, but all the matches and memories that took place there aren't magically wiped away...they still happened. And what is important is that we know that and we take pride in that. Who cares what other supporters think of our club, because to be honest, as long as Villa are beating your club, I could not give a toss about what you might think. If a takeover from a group like RB is what it takes to move forward I bit, I could only be but so much against it because nowadays, cash in king, both in the PL and world football. While I like Lerner, I realize there comes a point where he can no longer continue to run the club and realistically there are not many people out there these days looking to throw money away on footie clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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