The Tim Sherwood Thread

[lapal_fan]

I've said this before but his undoing will be the Leicester game.

His appalling interview after that game where he looked like he was going to cry was just about the worse thing he could have done.

Why he didn't come out and say "for 70 minutes we've bossed the in-form team in the league, with a really young squad, many of whom have little or no Premier League experience.  You know what? They and I are hurting from this loss, but we'll learn from it and go into the next game absolutely determined not to let that happen again.  Sure, we'll make mistakes, but they've shown me enough in this game to show me that they will be absolutely fine.".  Turn the negative into a positive.  Don't stand there leaning against the interview board, on the verge of tears and mumble "Vat's dur wurst fing dat as eva 'append to me, Im devistated."  Not exactly leadership 101 is it?  The manager is meant to put confidence into his squad, not playing 5 at the back at home against Stoke, making weird subs at home against Sunderland and appearing to give up 6/7 games into the season.

As has been said, he's talking himself out of a job and if he loses this one, it'll be a long time before he gets another.

[Villarocker]

I could not hazard a guess who would be right as the next manager if Tim Sherwood is fired.

It appears I  have been wrong in my judgement about all of them having a quiet acceptance of the all bar one.....Never thought AM was right for us.

However,I do have one fear on the subject, moving forward.......

Having watched with Interest the programme "Sir Alex Ferguson- The secret of success".....It was clear that all the attributes he had and instigated could never have materialised/implimented in 5 minutes.....Time was the main element to accompany his undoubted skills. The problem with Time is its only worth considering allowing it if the plans are feasible and are progressing.....otherwise its just an abstract.

Even Alex Ferguson acknowledged Managers don't get that time any longer, and If Jose Mourinho is in the predicament he is in , is there any hope for any of them?

I simply don't know whether Tim Sherwood has been given enough time and I am equally not sure if he should have stuck with a line up with a belief in his head or chopped and changed like he has....my suspicion is that what ever he did he would have had a different set of detractors saying he is wrong.

There is a danger in my mind that because he isn't winning.....and yes that is bad enough.....He will eventually get blamed for the Syrian Crisis......some of the stuff coming out, makes me say that, not all, but some.

Some fans don't Like Tim Sherwood -PERIOD, so right now their case/opinion is kinda bomb proof( and hey! they may prove to be right).....I am clearly not in a position to say they are wrong either, because I simply don't know enough about what he does behind closed doors, I am only privvy to performances and results on match day.......Alex Ferguson did have a similar problem and the fans got restless, but I guess he didn't have the indignation of 7 losses on the bounce or the unfortunate circumstance of changing 12 players in one window.....and David Gill backed what AF was doing with the youth.....don't forget the best player we ever had was bombed out by AF, so it was win,win for both of us.....sometimes decisions can be like that.

I will be surprised if TS can survive this, In terms of results he has accumulated too much consecutive poo.....but unlike some fans, I am no further satisfied, we will attract a manger to turn it around in the short term.

We just need a cement mixer full of LUCK IMO

TRO,

I hear what you're saying regards Fergie. A manager does need time to work his magic usually but, these days, there doesn't seem to be much time afforded because time stands still for nobody, especially in football and the Premier League in particular. The reason being; money! There is so much money around nowadays and if you don't spend enough of it you simply get left behind. This is proving to be the biggest problem at the Villa and came to light as soon as the Milner money wasn't given to MON. Since then, this club has lost best player after best player and when that happens you simply keep having to start again. It's not so bad if you do it the way Southampton did and get huge money for little investment and then spend that wisely on quality players. But, our money has largely gone back into paying back the loan and the huge wage bill.

We lost two quality players this summer. I think we can probably have better replacements for Delph but Benteke is going to be difficult to replace. Having said that, if we were to get the right team on to the pitch, with the right tactics, maybe we can get the ball into the right areas for Gestede to make Benteke a distant memory, who knows?

Villa stopped growing when the money stopped going in. Gradually, with less and less investment, the club has gone into decline and the table shows it. We spent a lot of money in the summer but we also lost a lot of quality, if only in 2 or 3 players. Our hopes are now pinned on finding a new manager who can get the best out of the players that we now have. There should be little or no allegiance to Sherwood from the players, if the rumours of unrest and transfer dealings are to be believed. We now have to trust the powers that be to make the right decision for our beloved club.

It's getting to the point for me where I am beginning to not care if we stay up or go down. I believe that whilst we are a Premier League side with this owner we will continually be experiencing groundhog day. At least if we went down we would have a possibly achievable target of promotion at the start of each season. Who knows, we might just see some winning football too!

[rubberman]

Right through the summer I knew it would take time for all the new players to gel and was happy to be patient.  As others have said, we have only been margins away from a vastly different start to the season - only losing by a goal etc.  We've been able to score, which was the biggest worry.  There've been some really good phases of play both individually and as a team, but a very real lack of consistency.  But seemingly every time someone has shown a glimpse of coming into form they are dropped or moved to another position.

Where my view has completely changed is the lack of any clear direction from Tim.  I fully expected us to be an all out attack team, very few draws, some batterings but enough wins.  That would have been fine.  The Leicester shambles started the rot - the attack part had worked, now shut it down FFS.  Sunderland, Palace - he was completely out-thought mid game, and doesn't appear to be learning.  By Stoke and something like the 5th different formation he'd jumped the shark for me.

I don't really care what he says to the media.  Fergie, Jose etc all talk bollocks to deflect from results.  What I want is a vision and a direction.  I think the squad is good enough and results would start to come, but if you don't let them settle they never will.

If we win the next two and start to show consistency of thought, selection and direction, I'm happy to come back round but I fear that ship has sailed.

[tylerreznik]

Yep good point well made, totally agree, also would have been nice for him to shoulder some the blame or at least say I'll learn from that.

That may have been the game where he realised there is a bit more to beng a manager than just telling the lads to go out there, play with freedom and have a good go at 'um....

I just remember it was good old Arry Redknapp that gave Sherwood his start by bringing him in as a coach at Spurs way back, everything sort of makes sense when you think who mentored him all those years ago.  God help us all.

His latest comments in the press about wanting the players to attack and play with freedom against Chelsea are priceless.  So essentially champ you have no ideas on how to instruct them to play, and just hope and pray the players can work it out for themselves.  If they don't perform or get a result you can blame them by saying well I told um all to express themselves out there and play with freedom, but you know they just aren't good enough, they're not my blokes, i didn't sign um.  Now if we had Lennon and Townsend, oh my it'd be a totally different story....

[TRO]

 

His latest comments in the press about wanting the players to attack and play with freedom against Chelsea are priceless.  So essentially champ you have no ideas on how to instruct them to play, and just hope and pray the players can work it out for themselves.  If they don't perform or get a result you can blame them by saying well I told um all to express themselves out there and play with freedom, but you know they just aren't good enough, they're not my blokes, i didn't sign um.  Now if we had Lennon and Townsend, oh my it'd be a totally different story....

                  You can read anything in to how you want to see it.

                    Do you know for certain that is the case? ( now don't misinterpret my challenge that I'm saying your wrong, I'm not) He may be explaining those superficial lines quoted to the press and go in to finer detail of how he wants them to play @BMH.....I might be giving him far too much creedence ,who knows?

                    but how do we really know?

                    My point is, much is being written about Tim Sherwood, some of the stuff has substance and some is just pure bandwagon conjecture. I'm just trying to seperate it, in the interests of fair play.

Edited October 13, 2015 by TRO

[TRO]

There is no future in chopping and changing managers, But I recognise that massive financial pressures of the game, negate the prospect of giving managers a fair amount of time for them to implement their skills on the character of the players.

That being the case and much needed funds required for a new manager to make his stamp on things and having the conditions of a purchasing window to deal with.

I wonder who this miracle worker is that we seek?

Edited October 13, 2015 by TRO

[Wainy316]

The Leicester game destroyed us, if I look at this season that is where we passed a point of no return:

Bournemouth- battling away win but rode our luck.

Man United - Flat game, edged by an equally poor team, should've had a point.

Crystal Palace - Lost due to a silly error, bossed the first half.

Sunderland - Very poor result but deserved to win.

Leicester - First 70 minutes (especially first 45) were the best I've seen Villa play in years.  The manner of the collapse and subsequent defeat kncoked the stuffing out of everyone.

WBA - A local derby, good chance to recover, played like a rotten turd.  Heads gone.  The end.

[TRO]

There are 3 games for me that stand out as hard to contemplate.

Southampton ( last season) - woeful/Turgid

Cup Final - beyond explanation, words fail me on this one.

Leicester away - totally unprofessional and lacking character.

[terrytini]

Nobody can say for sure whether, given more time, things would work for Sherwood or not.

Clearly, many appear to think he has either had enough time, or has had too much.

For my part I don't think he has had enough time. There seems to be some revisionism going on as regards his initial results, and keeping us up......anyone who watches reruns of the matches from Christmas onwards can see clear as day the huge difference he made. Prior to his arrival we were incredibly awful, and he definitely reinvigorated Tekkers (who had got to the stage of being benched) Delph, and Cleverly.

And there was some...not loads, but some, decent football.  And there has been some this season.

I don't disagree with those who think he shows in experience, but I do think getting a blend IS difficult. Just because Watford or whoever have, doesn't mean it is automatic.

I would rather he kept some stuff quiet, but I don't see why it is such a big deal he doesn't know his best side.....I certainly don't.  The balance between attack and defence has plagued us for several years.

More time may prove he isn't going to get it right, but it may prove the opposite. I find it incredible that some are suggesting they now want him to fail, although it does correspond to an undercurrent of negativity towards him from Day 1.

We are nowhere near being cut adrift, and if people are as sure as they say that the players are fine then a replacement Manager after 14 games should have no more difficulty than one now in getting us up the Table.

So I'd prefer to see another 6 games

 

[terrytini]

There are 3 games for me that stand out as hard to contemplate.

Southampton ( last season) - woeful/Turgid

Cup Final - beyond explanation, words fail me on this one.

Leicester away - totally unprofessional and lacking character.

Same 3 for me but  less mystified by the second....I just think the players froze, against a side who can destroy anyone.,.......a bit like Gregory's side the last time.

 

 

[TRO]

Nobody can say for sure whether, given more time, things would work for Sherwood or not.

Clearly, many appear to think he has either had enough time, or has had too much.

For my part I don't think he has had enough time. There seems to be some revisionism going on as regards his initial results, and keeping us up......anyone who watches reruns of the matches from Christmas onwards can see clear as day the huge difference he made. Prior to his arrival we were incredibly awful, and he definitely reinvigorated Tekkers (who had got to the stage of being benched) Delph, and Cleverly.

And there was some...not loads, but some, decent football.  And there has been some this season.

I don't disagree with those who think he shows in experience, but I do think getting a blend IS difficult. Just because Watford or whoever have, doesn't mean it is automatic.

I would rather he kept some stuff quiet, but I don't see why it is such a big deal he doesn't know his best side.....I certainly don't.  The balance between attack and defence has plagued us for several years.

More time may prove he isn't going to get it right, but it may prove the opposite. I find it incredible that some are suggesting they now want him to fail, although it does correspond to an undercurrent of negativity towards him from Day 1.

We are nowhere near being cut adrift, and if people are as sure as they say that the players are fine then a replacement Manager after 14 games should have no more difficulty than one now in getting us up the Table.

So I'd prefer to see another 6 games

 

                       fine post Terry, much how I see it.

[StefanAVFC]

We're more adrift now than we ever were under Lambert IIRC

[TRO]

There are 3 games for me that stand out as hard to contemplate.

Southampton ( last season) - woeful/Turgid

Cup Final - beyond explanation, words fail me on this one.

Leicester away - totally unprofessional and lacking character.

Same 3 for me but  less mystified by the second....I just think the players froze, against a side who can destroy anyone.,.......a bit like Gregory's side the last time.

 

 

                                                   For me Terry, I am sympathetic if a team tries to get close and is simply outplayed..... we didn't appear to even try.

                                                    Arsenal are a fine side and knowing that some teams I could mention would not try to take them on, they would much prefer to take them OUT......we never made them work for their win.

                                                    I never EXPECT the Villa to win, but I do EXPECT them to fight for the win.....Considering we have had only 3 finals in c 50 years, I expected more Fight, more closing down of their key players......not offering them the Sahara desert to play in.

                                                    "Prepared" was simply the wrong motto that day.

 

 

Edited October 13, 2015 by TRO

[useless]

It's not about whether Tim Sherwood has had enough time or not, or what's fair on him. It's about what's best for the future of the football club.

[Chindie]

Theres been next to nothing that suggests he has any idea what he's doing. His own comments, contradicting himself in some cases, and generally coming across as an idiot, support that he doesn't. The run we're on is disgraceful, a considerable part of the responsibility for that run is his decisions, or lack of them, absurd chop and change lineups that he himself has effectively described as names out of the hat, absolute nonsense about playing badly in 1 half as part of some insane plan... the list goes on. Some of the things hes done are absolutely baffling. The perfomances are infuriating. The results shambolic. And there is nothing, nothing at all, to suggest thats going to change. Unless he flukes a good lineup. I'd rather try to reduce the luck variable if we can... We've been shit all season, snatched a win at Bournemouth and since then we've looked hopeless, bar 70mins at Leicester where the clown got out thought and reverted to type.

He isn't a Fergie, and he needs to be binned. Now. Every second he isn't binned is driving the nails further into the coffin. And it is simply unconscionable that we are relegated. It cannot be allowed to happen.

[El Zen]

We're more adrift now than we ever were under Lambert IIRC

Dare I say it? Lambert is a much better manager than Sherwood. 

[TRO]

We're more adrift now than we ever were under Lambert IIRC

Dare I say it? Lambert is a much better manager than Sherwood. 

                                  Yea....and Fred West was more compassionate than the Yorkshire Ripper.

Edited October 13, 2015 by TRO

[TRO]

Theres been next to nothing that suggests he has any idea what he's doing.

                     Well, you may be right,

                      but he out thought Brendan Rodgers in the cup semi final.....and ironically, he could be the replacement

Edited October 13, 2015 by TRO

[tinker]

Southampton out thought us , we never changed tactics and stuck with a high line despite repeated warnings before the goal fest.

 Arsenal game, at half time after being outplayed we were still in the game at 1-0, needed a change but never came and we was dead and buried before any change was made.

Leicester game, found the right team, tactics perfect, changed the team and the tactics and got well and truly spanked, tactically. Havent started with the same first half team since, despite it being regarded by many as being the best half of football we have played in quite some time .

Its his apparent tactical incompetence that's a worry, plus his stupid comments and his media contacts who have leaked team information on at least one occasion.

Hope he turns it round but I now have severe doubts.Its not the defeats, its the way we have been defeated thats alarming.

[terrytini]

We're more adrift now than we ever were under Lambert IIRC

Whilst I can understand your concerns, and respect your views on the Manager, it is palpable nonsense to describe a 4 point gap as cut adrift, when there are 90 points to play for !!!!