The History Thread

[trekka]

Operation Husky

 

I was lucky enough to recently have spent a week in Sicily looking at Husky.  Good call (even after walking through the op, I'm not sure it was the largest in terms of pure manpower though).

 

(I want to live in Sicily by the way, like now.  The place is fantastic).

Edited August 25, 2014 by trekka

[chrisp65]

 

not 'history' strictly speaking, but somewhere to stick a photo of Wembley, 1923

 

it's a bit more built up around there now I believe

[TrentVilla]

wow that is a great pic

[lapal_fan]

That's actually incredible. 

 

Less than 100 years and it's turned into something completely different.

 

I wonder if you asked a local at the time what they imagined it looked like now, what they'd say?

 

I bet the answer wouldn't be "shit loads of concrete flats".

[mjmooney]

Taken during the legendary pitch invasion, I assume. 

[villaajax]

Villa Park > Wembley.

[maqroll]

I'm looking for a good book on the Spanish Civil War. Not too text booky, something that reads well. Any suggestions?

[coda]

I'm looking for a good book on the Spanish Civil War. Not too text booky, something that reads well. Any suggestions?

 

Only one I've read is Homage to Catalonia which was fascinating.

[mjmooney]

Homage to Catalonia is of course Orwell's personal memoir, rather than an overview, but yes, it's a good read. As is Laurie Lee's "A Moment of War". 

 

The classic popular histories are the ones by Paul Preston, Hugh Thomas and Antony Beevor. Going by his other books, I suspect Beevor's would be good. 

 

But doing a bit of lateral thinking, I'd also recommend The Penguin Book of Spanish Civil War Verse. It was a poets' war, and there's some really good stuff in there. 

[tonyh29]

interesting article ... the diver you can see in most of the photo's also happens to be my brother

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2790913/the-lost-ships-malin-head-divers-exploring-wrecks-warships-liners-sunk-world-wars-tanks-military-vehicles-gold-bars-missing.html#comments'>

These stunning pictures show the undisturbed wrecks left from the two World Wars and now resting deep beneath the sea.

Military vehicles from the First and Second World War also lie on the sea bed while one of the giant vessels is thought to contain millions of pounds worth of gold bars.

[tonyh29]

Guess this is a good a place as any for this  .. really interesting read

 

The First Space walk

 

Alexei Leonov did not feel as if he was in motion as he clambered on to the outside of the spacecraft, 500km above the Earth.

But in reality, he was hurtling around our planet at speeds that are many times faster than a jet aircraft.

The vast, vivid geography of our planet stretched out before him - a giant canvas of contrasting colours and textures.

He was the first of his species to see our planet in such glorious aspect. The Russian was quickly overwhelmed:

[chrisp65]

wasn't sure whether to list it, bit of a sombre anniversary today, 21st October 1966 was Aberfan

 

116 children and 28 adults were killed

[colhint]

That haunted me for a long time. It was the first piece of news I was really bothered about, or understood as a kid. They didn't even show Tingha and Tucker, which Is what I was waiting for.

[MakemineVanilla]

It has been interesting this week to see how the end of WW1 has been commemorated and how different the ceremonies have been in Germany, France and the UK.

 

While the French chose to include the names of the German dead at their national war memorial, the British have repeated the self-serving narrative of national sacrifice, rather than embracing one of avoidable European and global tragedy.

 

I thought the poppy thing was a bit tacky and the choice of venue seemed to suggest historical symbolism I didn't quite understand - symbol of sacrifices made for the continuance of the monarchy, perhaps?

 

The young boy cadet placing the last poppy, just looked like a symbol of the national willingness to sacrifice the next generation for some future President's war. 

 

The UK narrative has shifted but not in a way I agree with.

 

The schoolgirls who attended, dominated the television pictures and made their rehearsed tributes, referred to the million dead, whose sacrifice the poppies are supposed to symbolise, as 'people'; a glaringly gender-neutral choice of word, being that those either persuaded or compelled to sacrifice their lives, were exclusively men.

 

It seems it won't be long before volunteering to work in a factory is seen as just as much of a sacrifice, as being conscripted to fight in the trenches.

 

Let us not forget who it was who made the biggest sacrifices: it wasn't everyone, it was men.

[lapal_fan]

It has been interesting this week to see how the end of WW1 has been commemorated and how different the ceremonies have been in Germany, France and the UK.

 

While the French chose to include the names of the German dead at their national war memorial, the British have repeated the self-serving narrative of national sacrifice, rather than embracing one of avoidable European and global tragedy.

 

I thought the poppy thing was a bit tacky and the choice of venue seemed to suggest historical symbolism I didn't quite understand - symbol of sacrifices made for the continuance of the monarchy, perhaps?

 

The young boy cadet placing the last poppy, just looked like a symbol of the national willingness to sacrifice the next generation for some future President's war. 

 

The UK narrative has shifted but not in a way I agree with.

 

The schoolgirls who attended, dominated the television pictures and made their rehearsed tributes, referred to the million dead, whose sacrifice the poppies are supposed to symbolise, as 'people'; a glaringly gender-neutral choice of word, being that those either persuaded or compelled to sacrifice their lives, were exclusively men.

 

It seems it won't be long before volunteering to work in a factory is seen as just as much of a sacrifice, as being conscripted to fight in the trenches.

 

Let us not forget who it was who made the biggest sacrifices: it wasn't everyone, it was men.

 

It was kind of interesting and kooky to begin with, but now your just talking absolute guff.

 

You're like Karl Pilkington, if no one was around to listen, you'd still argue with yourself.

 

You're the opposite of a suffragette, but without cause.

[MakemineVanilla]

 

It has been interesting this week to see how the end of WW1 has been commemorated and how different the ceremonies have been in Germany, France and the UK.

 

While the French chose to include the names of the German dead at their national war memorial, the British have repeated the self-serving narrative of national sacrifice, rather than embracing one of avoidable European and global tragedy.

 

I thought the poppy thing was a bit tacky and the choice of venue seemed to suggest historical symbolism I didn't quite understand - symbol of sacrifices made for the continuance of the monarchy, perhaps?

 

The young boy cadet placing the last poppy, just looked like a symbol of the national willingness to sacrifice the next generation for some future President's war. 

 

The UK narrative has shifted but not in a way I agree with.

 

The schoolgirls who attended, dominated the television pictures and made their rehearsed tributes, referred to the million dead, whose sacrifice the poppies are supposed to symbolise, as 'people'; a glaringly gender-neutral choice of word, being that those either persuaded or compelled to sacrifice their lives, were exclusively men.

 

It seems it won't be long before volunteering to work in a factory is seen as just as much of a sacrifice, as being conscripted to fight in the trenches.

 

Let us not forget who it was who made the biggest sacrifices: it wasn't everyone, it was men.

 

It was kind of interesting and kooky to begin with, but now your just talking absolute guff.

 

You're like Karl Pilkington, if no one was around to listen, you'd still argue with yourself.

 

You're the opposite of a suffragette, but without cause.

 

 

Steady on, it's only an opinion.

 

You may have your own, which are probably different from mine, but I wouldn't get all ad hominem on your arse. 

 

And, I've never heard of Karl Pilkington.

[Jon]

 

It has been interesting this week to see how the end of WW1 has been commemorated and how different the ceremonies have been in Germany, France and the UK.

 

While the French chose to include the names of the German dead at their national war memorial, the British have repeated the self-serving narrative of national sacrifice, rather than embracing one of avoidable European and global tragedy.

 

I thought the poppy thing was a bit tacky and the choice of venue seemed to suggest historical symbolism I didn't quite understand - symbol of sacrifices made for the continuance of the monarchy, perhaps?

 

The young boy cadet placing the last poppy, just looked like a symbol of the national willingness to sacrifice the next generation for some future President's war. 

 

The UK narrative has shifted but not in a way I agree with.

 

The schoolgirls who attended, dominated the television pictures and made their rehearsed tributes, referred to the million dead, whose sacrifice the poppies are supposed to symbolise, as 'people'; a glaringly gender-neutral choice of word, being that those either persuaded or compelled to sacrifice their lives, were exclusively men.

 

It seems it won't be long before volunteering to work in a factory is seen as just as much of a sacrifice, as being conscripted to fight in the trenches.

 

Let us not forget who it was who made the biggest sacrifices: it wasn't everyone, it was men.

 

It was kind of interesting and kooky to begin with, but now your just talking absolute guff.

 

You're like Karl Pilkington, if no one was around to listen, you'd still argue with yourself.

 

You're the opposite of a suffragette, but without cause.

 

I think the word you were looking for was 'obsessed'. T'is like a broken record, probably by someone shite like Black Lace.

[Stevo985]

Even in a post about World War 1, MMV's bizarre opinion on women is front and centre.

 

So odd.

Edited November 12, 2014 by Stevo985

[MakemineVanilla]

Even in a post about World War 1, MMV's bizarre opinion on women is front and centre.

 

So odd.

 

Well, I find it odd that demanding that men's sacrifices be fully acknowledged, is considered anti-women, yet women demanding that female contributions be acknowledged, is accepted without demur.

[Stevo985]

 

Even in a post about World War 1, MMV's bizarre opinion on women is front and centre.

 

So odd.

 

Well, I find it odd that demanding that men's sacrifices be fully acknowledged, is considered anti-women, yet women demanding that female contributions be acknowledged, is accepted without demur.

 

No. What you're "demanding" is that instead of using the word "people" to refer to those who have lost their lives through war (don't forget that remembrance Sunday is about ALL wars, not just WW1, despite the timing of the event) they use the word "men".

 

Which would then suggest that ONLY men have ever sacrificed their lives in times of war. Which is, of course, completely false, even if it may be true that they represent a large majority. In that case you would effectively be excluding women's sacrifices.

 

It's a quite frankly bizarre "demand".