Stevo985 Posted October 18, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted October 18, 2012 I'm not saying people on the end of the phone don't deserve a strong word or two. But going absolutely mental at someone is just a waste of everyone's time and energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCforever1991 Posted October 18, 2012 Author Share Posted October 18, 2012 But going absolutely mental at someone is just a waste of everyone's time and energy. Comedy Gold though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarethRDR Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 I often give them half a chance to talk sense before unleashing the verbal tiger. We had a call from Halifax (well, a third party customer research company on behalf of Halifax) about a day after exchanging on our house wanting to know how we rated the service Halifax gave us. No exaggeration, I had to repeat four times to the Doris on the other end of the phone that we hadn't dealt with Halifax ourselves, and as we'd had the mortgage all of a day we had no feedback to give. She still asked me to rate their service out of 10, and pressed me for why I said 5. BECAUSE. WE. HAVEN'T. HAD. ANY. SERVICE. TO. RATE. YET. **** braindead moron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legov Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 I understand the application of cost benefit re corporate crime (and the application at an individual level, too - though most wouldn't generally accept this way of making a decision) but, as per my edit above, I think there's a problem about conflating (primary) motive and obligation. I guess it differs and it probably depends upon one's motives as an investor (which relates to Peter's post yesterday in the economics thread). I can see why you may say that it is central but, to a degree, that is just a further step on the road to a justification of and excuse for illegal and unethical behaviour in business, surely? I don't think it's justification, I think it removes a lot of the checks and inhibitions against illegal (or sometimes, legal but unpopular) behaviour. A small business owner who deals with customers on a face-to-face basis is in theory discouraged from fraudulence by the ease with which customers can spot discrepancies, given the small distance (figuratively speaking) between customer base and management. In contrast, a large business would have several rungs between customer service and upper management. The company thus "loses" a source of independent checks, making it easier for the big bosses to hide shady dealings. Turning such a company public would (again in theory) exacerbate this problem. Investors no matter how small their holdings are, demand profits, thus putting huge pressure on company executives to maximise profits, and doing whatever it takes to do so. The huge turnover rate for senior executives on Wall St, and I suspect public-listed companies all around the world as well, is perhaps testament to this. If investors are uninformed or apathetic, they will, inadvertently or otherwise, help propagate this profit-at-all-costs executive culture. I mentioned that I know very, very little about investing (and I'm not particularly interested in learning more tbh), but I've seen plenty of "budding" speculators who know **** all about the shares they're trading, some of my relatives being amongst them. They might inadvertently support unscrupulous corporations, without realising that they are doing so. I guess it's not really about the profit motive per se - humans generally want to make as much money as possible, after all - but rather how informal, non-governmental checks and discouragements against the profit-at-all-costs approach can be eliminated by the size of companies as well as the stock market concept, thus bringing ugly Profit to the fore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 I don't think it's justification... Edit: I did say that it seemed to be another step on the road to justification (not one in and of itself) because it strikes me as more than just a description of what has or may happen or seeking to understand what could occur. Investors no matter how small their holdings are, demand profits... Over what period? Short term, medium term, long term? Different investors in different ventures look for and demand different things over different timescales. Also, we are back to the point I alluded to about motive and obligation - the consensus appears to be that the former supercedes the latter (if they are contrary to one another) to the extent that no obligations really matter. Not only do I think that's stupid, I think that's wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 No one made them take that job. Its a shit job. If they take a bit of abuse and quit, they'll be better human beings for it. Bollocks. It's nice to be able to pick and choose your jobs, and I'm sure no one in the world wants to spend 40 hours a week cold-calling people on behalf of BT, but that doesn't excuse screaming abuse down the phone at them. A curt 'No thank you', tends to get people off the phone with minimal fuss. People have to pay the bills.It is a shit job, but sometimes it's a choice between that, and sitting at home on JSA. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Right now R is pissing me off, my transition to R has been a little bit painful but from what I gather most find moving over to it painful, unless they spent a lot of time using SAS. I wish I'd of taught myself how to use the bastard thing years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legov Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 I did say that it seemed to be another step on the road to justification (not one in and of itself) because it strikes me as more than just a description of what has or may happen or seeking to understand what could occur. Yeah, I don't think it is, not in most cases anyway. Also' date=' we are back to the point I alluded to about motive and obligation - the consensus appears to be that the former supercedes the latter (if they are contrary to one another) to the extent that no obligations really matter. Not only do I think that's stupid, I think that's wrong.[/quote'] I agree with the last sentence of this section. However, my argument in my fourth paragraph was about the average investor being uninformed(stupid?), not immoral. This creates chances for unscrupulous executives to engage in fraudulent business practices. Granted, not every executive would act like that - it's hard to think that's the case when these days you read about executives pocketing bonuses for doing **** all while the gap between the wealthy and the middle class grows. Over what period? Short term, medium term, long term? Different investors in different ventures look for and demand different things over different timescales. Doesn't matter, they are all about making profit, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Bollocks. It's nice to be able to pick and choose your jobs, and I'm sure no one in the world wants to spend 40 hours a week cold-calling people on behalf of BT, but that doesn't excuse screaming abuse down the phone at them. A curt 'No thank you', tends to get people off the phone with minimal fuss. People have to pay the bills.It is a shit job, but sometimes it's a choice between that, and sitting at home on JSA. To be fair to the man, he sounded quite old, perhaps housebound most of the day and is ex-directory, to be that angry he must receive a fair amount of cold calls despite believing his policy should prevent them. The funny thing about it was that despite the man screaming at the BT guy, the BT guy still wanted to ask him his questions, you'd have thought he'd of ended the call as soon as he heard the tone of the man let alone what he started to say a few seconds into the call. Common sense should have prevailed yet he still wanted to carry on with it. I understand the man's frustrations, cold calling is essentially accosting someone in their own home, it's bad enough being accosted on the street but in your own home you're not likely to tolerate it. I have a sign clearly visible on my door saying that I don't wish to talk to any sales 'people' yet they still ring the bell. These people just don't get it. I can't stand them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 I agree with the last sentence of this section. However, my argument in my fourth paragraph was about the average investor being uninformed(stupid?), not immoral. This creates chances for unscrupulous executives to engage in fraudulent business practices. Granted, not every executive would act like that - it's hard to think that's the case when these days you read about executives pocketing bonuses for doing **** all while the gap between the wealthy and the middle class grows. I agree that there is a problem with investors or shareholders not holding to account corporations (and the executives and directors of those corporations) and that may well be mostly as a result of a lack of information but again what you are doing is adding another layer to the cost/benefit analysis. What I am saying is that the basis and framework for that analysis (beyond an academic exercise) is wrong. Doesn't matter, they are all about making profit, no? Of course it does and not necessarily (getting the greatest return for each, perhaps). Anyway, we're in danger of taking over the thread with the discussion so perhaps we ought to wrap it up or move it to an appropriate thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaajax Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 NSFW I honestly don't know how that guys doesn't burst out laughing.. A guy from Dell once asked me to disconnect the power from the motherboard of a PC and then to try turning it on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LockStockVilla Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Dell technical support is the bane of my existence! However, that call must be ancient because the tech support is American and not Indian. I have never spoken to a non Indian technical representative when dealing with Dell and I've had my fair share of contact after my laptop's motherboard breaking 7 times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 18, 2012 Moderator Share Posted October 18, 2012 Cold calling is an invasion of my privacy and as such anyone taking a job invading someone's privacy deserves everything they get, it is most definitely part of the territory. They have accepted a job that is basically being rude to people, if some people react rudely and aggressively back to them and they are taken aback, they are in the wrong job. On a similar note, the amount of upselling done at checkouts in shops these days is beginning to piss me off, it is replacing the nectar card at number one in my list of things that piss me off in shops. Today in that cheap household goods shop Savers, excellent for £1 shampoo / shower gel, cheap Domestos etc. The woman at the till (the manager of the shop no less) asked me if I'd care to take advantage (there's only one person taking advantage here and its most definitely not me) of the special offer of the day a 50ml pot of Nivea for 50p. Nivea, f**king Nivea, do I look like the type of bloke that uses Nivea. actually I didn't say anything to her I just looked at her saying nothing, like she'd just spoken in Swahili. She eventually cracked and admitted my silence was probably a no and told me how much I owed her for the goods I actually wished to purchase from her Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coda Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 She might have been attempting to politely tell you that you need to moisturise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 I have relatively recently discovered the wonders of, er, 'moisturiser'. 50mls ain't gonna last long mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 18, 2012 Moderator Share Posted October 18, 2012 I was tempted to ask her if it would work better than butter when I attempt to recreate a scene from Last Tango in Paris later in the evening but I thought she'd probably not understand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaajax Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Dell technical support is the bane of my existence! However, that call must be ancient because the tech support is American and not Indian. I have never spoken to a non Indian technical representative when dealing with Dell and I've had my fair share of contact after my laptop's motherboard breaking 7 times. The Dell technicians I speak to are always Indian, my most recent call to them was on Tuesday. All of our computers and laptops at work (nearer 800 of them) are from Dell so I do have to speak to them fairly often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LockStockVilla Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 The Dell technicians I speak to are always Indian, my most recent call to them was on Tuesday. All of our computers and laptops at work (nearer 800 of them) are from Dell so I do have to speak to them fairly often. Oh dear, I do not envy you one bit. I would have jumped off the nearest building I could find if I had to talk to them more than once a week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackpotForeigner Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Mobile versions of websites that function perfectly well on mobiles. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCforever1991 Posted October 19, 2012 Author Share Posted October 19, 2012 Mobile versions of websites that function perfectly well on mobiles. The opposite annoys me, when the website im on doesn't have a mobile version.. I wouldnt get mobile version on my desktop, so why give me a full size Site on my mobile? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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