magnkarl Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 1 hour ago, Raver50032 said: It's wider than that... some of us have to pick up the pieces. The smell stays up your nose for days... and flashbacks to what you find and learn on site (sometimes, the back story is the most harrowing) persist for a long time after. The ripple effect of suicide should not be underestimated, ever. It's so much more than 'some poor soul jumping in front of a train.' Some train drivers never drive again. Couldn't agree more. People thinking that it's all about the person killing themselves is all deluded. Train drivers, emergency services, line inspectors, commuters etc all get horribly affected by it. If I was ever going to kill myself I'd roll over in a self made ditch with a pre-prepped shovel\mound of dirt to cover me in. That way no one has to deal with me being selfish. A friend of mine used to be a train driver for south west trains until about two years ago when some 20 year old literally got cut in half in front of him by the train - he's been on benefits with PTSD ever since. There is nothing a train driver can do to stop the train and it causes so much mental harm to the proud folks who drive our trains. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Paddywhack Posted May 16, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted May 16, 2017 9 minutes ago, magnkarl said: Couldn't agree more. People thinking that it's all about the person killing themselves is all deluded. Train drivers, emergency services, line inspectors, commuters etc all get horribly affected by it. If I was ever going to kill myself I'd roll over in a self made ditch with a pre-prepped shovel\mound of dirt to cover me in. That way no one has to deal with me being selfish. A friend of mine used to be a train driver for south west trains until about two years ago when some 20 year old literally got cut in half in front of him by the train - he's been on benefits with PTSD ever since. There is nothing a train driver can do to stop the train and it causes so much mental harm to the proud folks who drive our trains. It's almost like people that kill themselves aren't in the right frame of mind. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 Just now, Paddywhack said: It's almost like people that kill themselves aren't in the right frame of mind. I agree on this point, however it doesn't mean that it's not selfish to do it in front of a train where you are forcing people to kill you involuntarily while doing their job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Chindie Posted May 16, 2017 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted May 16, 2017 I always feel uneasy at the description of something that has the ultimate aim of destroying yourself entirely as 'selfish'. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Paddywhack Posted May 16, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted May 16, 2017 1 minute ago, Chindie said: I always feel uneasy at the description of something that has the ultimate aim of destroying yourself entirely as 'selfish'. I think it's on a par with telling someone with depression to cheer up. It's total ignorance. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 1 minute ago, Chindie said: I always feel uneasy at the description of something that has the ultimate aim of destroying yourself entirely as 'selfish'. Again, I'm not saying that suicide isn't sad and horrible for the people involved. I am saying that forcing a conductor to be the cause for your death, leading to his or her mental demise and repercussions, is innately selfish. There are other ways to kill yourself than potentially making other people suicidal in the process. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted May 16, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted May 16, 2017 Just now, Paddywhack said: I think it's on a par with telling someone with depression to cheer up. It's total ignorance. And preening superiority. It's looking down the nose at people in their lowest ebbs. Decrying weakness. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BOF Posted May 16, 2017 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted May 16, 2017 15 minutes ago, magnkarl said: Again, I'm not saying that suicide isn't sad and horrible for the people involved. I am saying that forcing a conductor to be the cause for your death, leading to his or her mental demise and repercussions, is innately selfish. There are other ways to kill yourself than potentially making other people suicidal in the process. No sorry, you are still attempting to apply reason to someone who has gone way way beyond that point. Most of the time (there are always exceptions), in their minds they have become the problem, so as perverse as it may seem, to them it's actually a selfless act of removing that problem so that everyone else can get on with it. Frankly I've always regarded calling suicide selfish from the sideline as ironically being one of the most selfish things someone can say. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post StefanAVFC Posted May 16, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted May 16, 2017 (edited) Those who are 100% serious about ending their life will look for the most effective way of doing that. Both in terms of a lack of suffering and success. The 'non-selfish' methods (hanging/overdose/cutting) are either laden with suffering or not guaranteed to be effective. We need to remove all notions of personal selfishness away from suicide and start doing way more as a race to prevent them. Mental illness is the same as having a cold, or the flu, or a life-threatening illness (in more serious cases) and we need to treat it that way rather than stigmatising those to the point they need to take their own lives. We celebrate somebody's battle with cancer and laud their bravery, yet certain people will look down on somebody who has fought a battle with depression and won. That, for me, is madness. Edited May 16, 2017 by StefanAVFC 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted May 16, 2017 Moderator Share Posted May 16, 2017 Working from home Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 1 hour ago, magnkarl said: If I was ever going to kill myself I'd roll over in a self made ditch with a pre-prepped shovel\mound of dirt to cover me in. Of course you would. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted May 16, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted May 16, 2017 1 hour ago, magnkarl said: If I was ever going to kill myself I'd roll over in a self made ditch with a pre-prepped shovel\mound of dirt to cover me in. No. You wouldn't. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 51 minutes ago, bickster said: Working from home This should be in the 'things that cheer me up thread', working from home is amazing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted May 16, 2017 Moderator Share Posted May 16, 2017 5 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said: This should be in the 'things that cheer me up thread', working from home is amazing. Nah not in my case, running a social media account from home means I'm constantly having to check things on my days off, feels like I'm never off work even at home 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raver50032 Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 2 hours ago, StefanAVFC said: Those who are 100% serious about ending their life will look for the most effective way of doing that. Both in terms of a lack of suffering and success. The 'non-selfish' methods (hanging/overdose/cutting) are either laden with suffering or not guaranteed to be effective. We need to remove all notions of personal selfishness away from suicide and start doing way more as a race to prevent them. Mental illness is the same as having a cold, or the flu, or a life-threatening illness (in more serious cases) and we need to treat it that way rather than stigmatising those to the point they need to take their own lives. We celebrate somebody's battle with cancer and laud their bravery, yet certain people will look down on somebody who has fought a battle with depression and won. That, for me, is madness. A lot of railway staff (Stations etc) have done a collaborative piece of work with the Samaritans about spotting behaviours of people who may be in the thought processes of ending their lives around the railway environment. It is believed that there is a 'golden period' of time when something so simple as saying 'you alright mate' to an individual could jolt them out of the spiral of despair and the immediate drive to end their life. Interrupting the thought process could be enough to stop it happening. It doesn't always work of course. Mental illness takes a lot of different forms, some go undiagnosed for eternity, some are taboo. One persons trauma could be interpreted as a little bit of bad luck by another. Nobody knows how you feel about something or how you are impacted by something until they experience it themselves. We have a lot to do in society to show empathy. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted May 16, 2017 Moderator Share Posted May 16, 2017 15 minutes ago, Raver50032 said: It is believed that there is a 'golden period' of time when something so simple as saying 'you alright mate' to an individual could jolt them out of the spiral of despair and the immediate drive to end their life. Interrupting the thought process could be enough to stop it happening. It doesn't always work of course. Yep, I'd call it the flashpoint. But you'll only have stopped that particular flashpoint. There'll be others. It's then about trying to treat to prevent or limit the others. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V01 Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 Picked up a book from the library, didn't have my library card with me so had to check it out at the desk. The librarian stamped the book and said it's back on the 14th. It will be back next week you word removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 1 hour ago, V01 said: Picked up a book from the library, didn't have my library card with me so had to check it out at the desk. The librarian stamped the book and said it's back on the 14th. It will be back next week you word removed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 18 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: People moaning about other people's bodies. I've not a got a problem with people being whatever size they are but I think what gets peoples goats is the fat acceptance in some cases. No you're not healthy and not a role model. You are unhealthy and it will impact you in the long term* Now, anyone want to join me for a slice of cake? * I can say this as I'm tubby and need to sort myself out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 17 hours ago, a m ole said: To add to that, people who get annoyed about the method a severely mentally ill person uses to kill themselves because it might ever so slightly inconvenience their day. I agree, but its human nature isn't it? If you've been stuck in a queue for 6 hours or missed a flight for a family holiday you have looked forward to for months, then people will get annoyed, its only natural. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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