praisedmambo Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 (edited) We as fans tend to over-rate the value of our own players and under-rate the value of players from other teams, if this is true there's at least a chance that there's a price at which Villa will sell and Spurs will buy which is higher than many Spurs fans think it should be, but lower than what many Villa fans think it should be, but at exactly the price the two clubs are happy for it to be. Anyway the latest rumours are Villa are asking £18m + add-ons + 25% sell-on, and the quibbling is over the size of the sell-on. On the one-season wonder thing, we have seen Adebayor twice have a very good season, and follow it with a very poor one: 2007/08 - 24 goals, 4 assists, 2008/09 - 10 goals, 4 assists, 2011/12 - 17 goals,11 assists, 2012/13 - 5 goals, 1 assist. Personally I think it's largely a confidence issue with Ade, but most people think it's an attitude issue, and that's also the one big negative on Benteke; how will he play if his heart isn't in it? In addition to this the very fact that he'll go on strike etc. means the selling club will be unlikely to ever realise the value his talent may warrant (in this case I'm thinking of a scenario in which in the future he wants to move on from Spurs). Both these things surely must have deflationary impact on his value? On the tapping up issue, basically I think all clubs do it, I'm certain Villa will have spoken to Kismet before speaking to Genk, and I'm sure they'd have been partially party to his strike action even if they didn't encourage it. In short, all clubs will be trying to get in their transfer targets for as little as possible, the only question-mark over these tactics and how far they should be pushed is whether they actually work, e.g. Chelsea and Modric, Berbatov and the premium Utd ended up paying to purchase him. We as fans should get our heads around this imo, and the authorities should change the law to reflect this. This guy is a Spurs supporter isn't he. Because there is no way on earth benteke is going to be sold for £18million plus add-ons. Double it and you'd be closer. EDIT: You don't seem to get it. Benteke is that good. He is worth the money we are asking for. Nobody knows that more than Lambert/Lerner and you are never going to sign him for that joke amount. Lambert said £30million gets you to the table for a reason. Edited July 16, 2013 by praisedmambo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oaks Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 I wonder if these Spuds rocket polishers thought they should have sold Modric to Chelsea for £30 million the year before they sold him to Madrid for £40 million? The thing is Benteke is worth what we want to replace him. It's up to Spurs to pay this, it's not about what Spurs or their fans believe they think he's worth. Not intrested in paying our price, move along we'll rebuild. If he throws his rattle out the plan, I hope we do make a stand like we did with Barry, we took a £6 million hit on our asking price to have another season, is Benteke willing to give up a massive year in his development to rot in our reserves? He's already been badly advised putting in a transfer request before a bid has been put in. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhInTrinity Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 We as fans tend to over-rate the value of our own players and under-rate the value of players from other teams, if this is true there's at least a chance that there's a price at which Villa will sell and Spurs will buy which is higher than many Spurs fans think it should be, but lower than what many Villa fans think it should be, but at exactly the price the two clubs are happy for it to be. Anyway the latest rumours are Villa are asking £18m + add-ons + 25% sell-on, and the quibbling is over the size of the sell-on. On the one-season wonder thing, we have seen Adebayor twice have a very good season, and follow it with a very poor one: 2007/08 - 24 goals, 4 assists, 2008/09 - 10 goals, 4 assists, 2011/12 - 17 goals,11 assists, 2012/13 - 5 goals, 1 assist. Personally I think it's largely a confidence issue with Ade, but most people think it's an attitude issue, and that's also the one big negative on Benteke; how will he play if his heart isn't in it? In addition to this the very fact that he'll go on strike etc. means the selling club will be unlikely to ever realise the value his talent may warrant (in this case I'm thinking of a scenario in which in the future he wants to move on from Spurs). Both these things surely must have deflationary impact on his value? On the tapping up issue, basically I think all clubs do it, I'm certain Villa will have spoken to Kismet before speaking to Genk, and I'm sure they'd have been partially party to his strike action even if they didn't encourage it. In short, all clubs will be trying to get in their transfer targets for as little as possible, the only question-mark over these tactics and how far they should be pushed is whether they actually work, e.g. Chelsea and Modric, Berbatov and the premium Utd ended up paying to purchase him. We as fans should get our heads around this imo, and the authorities should change the law to reflect this. Actually get your facts right on AVFC about tapping up, many times under Randy Lerner and PF, we have been praised about the way we do business. Donb't think the same is said about Levy. As for your latest rumours, they're changing everyday. Thought it was all wrapped up for 23million yesterday according to Spurs ITK's. On the facts straight thing, I haven't got any facts, just opinion. On the rumour/ITK thing, I called it a rumour for a reason... So how are you certain we spoke to Kismet on Benteke before speaking to Genk? If it's not fact then is it, it just your delusional thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praisedmambo Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 It took liverpool 3-4 bids if i recall to get downing after one good season and he wasnt allowed to talk to them until they met our valuation, i assume it will be the same this time despite spurs thinking they can just get him for whatever price THEY find acceptable. This is the only thing that really annoys me right now. Spurs thinking they have a right to name the price. **** that! Not a chance in hell when he has 3 years left. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted July 16, 2013 Moderator Share Posted July 16, 2013 On the tapping up issue ... I'm certain Villa will have spoken to Kismet before speaking to Genk, and I'm sure they'd have been partially party to his strike action even if they didn't encourage it.On the facts straight thing, I haven't got any facts, just opinion.Well then I take issue with you wording as fact, any accusation of tapping up when you admit you know nothing. Can you see how your turn of phrase might be a problem above? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArteSuave Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 (edited) On the facts straight thing, I haven't got any facts, just opinion. On the rumour/ITK thing, I called it a rumour for a reason...So when you say you're "certain" we spoke to Kismet before Genk you mean in your unfounded opinion that's what happened? I'm just looking for clarification as to what definition of 'certain' you use. Edit - Mr BOF beat me to it. Edited July 16, 2013 by ArteSuave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raymond Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 I cannot believe you are all letting Spurs fans troll you. This has turned into the Bannan thread Mk II. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oaks Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 On the tapping up issue ... I'm certain Villa will have spoken to Kismet before speaking to Genk, and I'm sure they'd have been partially party to his strike action even if they didn't encourage it.On the facts straight thing, I haven't got any facts, just opinion.Well then I take issue with you wording as fact, any accusation of tapping up when you admit you know nothing. Can you see how your turn of phrase might be a problem above? The big difference between us last season and this season is we had a bid rejected when Benteke put his transfer request in. Still no official bid from Spurs, and a lot of media have said they have agreed a £70k a week contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TartarugaJones Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 This guy is a Spurs supporter isn't he. Because there is no way on earth benteke is going to be sold for £18million plus add-ons. Double it and you'd be closer. EDIT: You don't seem to get it. Benteke is that good. He is worth the money we are asking for. Nobody knows that more than Lambert/Lerner and you are never going to sign him for that joke amount. Lambert said £30million gets you to the table for a reason. I wonder if these Spuds rocket polishers thought they should have sold Modric to Chelsea for £30 million the year before they sold him to Madrid for £40 million? The thing is Benteke is worth what we want to replace him. It's up to Spurs to pay this, it's not about what Spurs or their fans believe they think he's worth. Not intrested in paying our price, move along we'll rebuild. If he throws his rattle out the plan, I hope we do make a stand like we did with Barry, we took a £6 million hit on our asking price to have another season, is Benteke willing to give up a massive year in his development to rot in our reserves? He's already been badly advised putting in a transfer request before a bid has been put in. The only somewhat mild point I made is that there's a good chance the clubs have a different valuation than the respective fans - they may not, but they may - and I posted it because some of the posts were making it sound like a battle between the clubs, and if Spurs were to transfer him for less than £25m it would be heralded as some kind of 'victory' for Levy, when in fact it's quite possible that were he to be transferred for less than that it would have been because that's the price Villa valued him at, and therefore there are no winners or losers, but two clubs having made a fair deal. "On the tapping up issue, basically I think all clubs do it, I'm certain Villa will have spoken to Kismet before speaking to Genk, and I'm sure they'd have been partially party to his strike action even if they didn't encourage it. In short, all clubs will be trying to get in their transfer targets for as little as possible, the only question-mark over these tactics and how far they should be pushed is whether they actually work, e.g. Chelsea and Modric, Berbatov and the premium Utd ended up paying to purchase him. We as fans should get our heads around this imo, and the authorities should change the law to reflect this." So how are you certain we spoke to Kismet on Benteke before speaking to Genk? If it's not fact then is it, it just your delusional thinking. That's a misuse of language by me, I'm of the strong opinion that Villa will have spoken to Kismet first, because I'm of the strong opinion that all transfers happen in this way, and that because all clubs carry out their business in this way nobody gets het up about it except for fans. I was making the same point last summer and the one before when it concerned Spurs players being targetted. I think it makes perfect sense to speak to the player and see if he wants to come, what his terms are etc before entering into negotiations with the selling club, however if the selling club says they won't sell at any price, or the price they quote is outrageously high then the buying club should then consider whether it's worth pursuing that target, not on moral grounds, but because it can end up with everyone losing, a la Chelsea and Modric. In the case of Benteke it seems Villa have said they will sell, the price they've quoted is not outrageous, and so what is left is the negotiation. The closest analogy I can think of is our sale of Carrick to Utd, or our sale of Berbatov to Utd, in both case we didn't want to sell, but had a price at which we would sell, in the first case Utd met it and the deal was done, in the second case Utd wouldn't meet it and ended up paying a premium very late in the window, whilst we also took a hit for sending out an important message. I very much hope that the Benteke saga will turn out the same way as the Carrick one, and as I said earlier in this thread, if Villa really do have a non-negotiable price, and it really is more than we're prepared to spend then we should be straight with club and player and move onto to other targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oaks Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 (edited) he only somewhat mild point I made is that there's a good chance the clubs have a different valuation than the respective fans - they may not, but they may - and I posted it because some of the posts were making it sound like a battle between the clubs, and if Spurs were to transfer him for less than £25m it would be heralded as some kind of 'victory' for Levy, when in fact it's quite possible that were he to be transferred for less than that it would have been because that's the price Villa valued him at, and therefore there are no winners or losers, but two clubs having made a fair deal. If that was the case then Benteke would be a Spurs player right now, not rocket science is it? Edited July 16, 2013 by Oaks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electric Avenue Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 The only way spurs can afford him is when they sell Bale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted July 16, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted July 16, 2013 Reason to hate Spurs No.12,234,516,877,891,241,555,608,792 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belgian guy Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Always funny to see the media claiming that they know every bit of it. Reason to hate Spurs No.12,234,516,877,891,241,555,608,792 no youre wrong its 12,234,516,877,891,241,555,608,793 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrees Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 If this is settled and Benteke does go, can the fee be announced as UNDISCLOSED, so that we know it is larger than the regular 'undisclosed'? Because we'll probably never know..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil3241 Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 So to summarize, Spurs have tapped up a player that they can't afford to buy? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
privateer Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 maybe lock him in a room until 1 September Locking him in a room with Dale Stephens as punishment is beyond harsh its cruel Stick Twitter Mad Cat Lady in there as well and when he comes out he'll not only sign a new contract, he will ask for a 50% pay cut in gratitude at the release. Like as not he'll be so crazy he'll tell people he's Napoleon Kendrick, a lying conspirator and AVFC spin agent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KennyPowers Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 This thread is becoming an absolute car crash. To these idiot Spurs fans, maybe you should respect the views of the Villa fans that have watched Benteke THE WHOLE DAMN SEASON rather than inventing your own valuations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TartarugaJones Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 he only somewhat mild point I made is that there's a good chance the clubs have a different valuation than the respective fans - they may not, but they may - and I posted it because some of the posts were making it sound like a battle between the clubs, and if Spurs were to transfer him for less than £25m it would be heralded as some kind of 'victory' for Levy, when in fact it's quite possible that were he to be transferred for less than that it would have been because that's the price Villa valued him at, and therefore there are no winners or losers, but two clubs having made a fair deal. If that was the case then Benteke would be a Spurs player right now, not rocket science is it? I don't follow...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
privateer Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 TJ, you are making the same mistake as that clown joey55. You talk of fair deal. Why? Seriously, what is it with you people? It is in our interest to have a grossly unfair deal. We don't want to sell. AVFC shouldn't want you to be happy with what you pay. A fair deal for us is Levy having ground his teeth to calcium powder at the **** he has taken over the negotiating table because he has had to stump up what the unwilling seller, who has not pimped the whore out to anyone, has forced him to pay for something he apparently covets. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCforever1991 Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 he only somewhat mild point I made is that there's a good chance the clubs have a different valuation than the respective fans - they may not, but they may - and I posted it because some of the posts were making it sound like a battle between the clubs, and if Spurs were to transfer him for less than £25m it would be heralded as some kind of 'victory' for Levy, when in fact it's quite possible that were he to be transferred for less than that it would have been because that's the price Villa valued him at, and therefore there are no winners or losers, but two clubs having made a fair deal. If that was the case then Benteke would be a Spurs player right now, not rocket science is it? I don't follow...? I don't either, not a fan of twitter tbh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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