Current affairs Serious incident in Woolwich

[Rugeley Villa]

Absolutely terrifying and what next?? What's the world gonna be like in 20 years, to me this is even more terrifying than a huge terrorist attack as they need to be planned and have chance to get found out but you can't stop things like what happend today, these islamic extremists are so brainwashed its frightening, I just can't see where an end will come to it, their aim is to destroy the west and at some point have a muslim world state but aslong as america exists that will never happen, I agree with that we should not kill these terrorists but make them live in absolute misery as killing them turns them into heroes, people like that should not have any human rights, god bless the victim and his family

[darrenm]

 

 

"Locking down the internet" isn't really possible.

 

Tell that to the people in China

 

 

 

It's funny, I was going to use that as an example of it being impossible.

 

Those with no understanding of technology are blocked by the Great Firewall of China. Those with a basic understanding of VPNs, proxies, or Tor are, at most, mildly inconvenienced.

 

The only way to restrict freedom of information on the internet to those with knowledge of how it works is to physically restrict access to it, which is extremely unlikely to happen.

 

http://wmdzone.blogspot.com/2012/04/prying-daves-folly.html

 

But they can make it extraordinarily difficult to do anything outside their control by putting pressure on the ISPs and carriers to block, manage and log your traffic.

[thetrees]

Trees, you have a duty of care to report that bloke at BHX who works in security. If he's saying those things it needs monitoring / investigating. We all remember PanAm and what happened in Frankfurt.

Unfortunately security is a low paid job, so it attracts immigrants, some of whom come from some pretty difficult areas, and who have witnessed horrors that most of us will thankfully never see. It appears that quite a number of immigrants from such areas are 'anti-American' as Pete defines it.

The sudden appearance of an American military aircraft a while back certainly brought out the 'anti-American' in some.

Whether the guy that I refer to, who is otherwise quite a nice chap, has the potential to be a 'terrorist', I do not know, but if he did, the news story could easily eclipse what we have seen today.

My expectation is that he is kept under close attention at the appropriate moments, so nothing will ever happen..

[Davkaus]

That blog is hilariously misinformed, but this is probably a bit off-topic to the matter at hand.

 

All I'll say is that the below claim is absolutely hilarious.

 

it's not difficult for them to do so, unless you use a different DNS server. It becomes almost impossible for them to see what you're actually doing on a web site, unless the site owner is willing to give them traffic logs

[thetrees]

would that make him a xenophobe?

 

Not if it's specific to people from the USA - a xenophobe dislikes foreigners in general.  I don't think there's a word for it.  "Anti-American" tends to mean disapproving of US actions (which he may well be, but the description goes beyond this, referring to him hating all Americans).

And I thought that our short lived friend who was mouthing off earlier was a racist. Now it turns out that he was just 'Anti-Pakistani'

(I'd put a smiley in, if this stupid Apple product would allow me to do so)

[peterms]

Part of me wonders how much of an outcry there would be if there was a legislated media blackout on serious crimes. and would this have an impact on the likelihood of people doing this sort of thing?

 

Thinking about, say, IRA bombings or the 7/7 incident, what would be the effect of a media blackout on something which would have been known to many people?

 

I'd have thought that for people to know about a major incident like those (and obviously a lot of people would know, and would spread that knowledge further), but to see the media silent, would increase fear and lead to all sorts of rumours circulating.  It wouldn't stop knowledge of the incident, but it would disrupt the communication of that knowledge, increase confusion, and lay on top of that a legitimate concern that people were deliberately being kept in the dark about very real threats to their lives.

 

I don't see anything about that which is better than disclosing what happened, trying to understand why it happened, and thinking about what could be done to make repetition less likely.

 

It's the difference between an open society and the approach taken in a police state.

[claretman]

I find it amazing that people were just stood about, whilst some nutter with a meat cleaver in his blood covered hands is milling about spouting bollocks.

 

I would conclude that he was an unpredictable psychopath and be on my toes to a safe distance quickly.

[darrenm]

Absolutely terrifying and what next?? What's the world gonna be like in 20 years, to me this is even more terrifying than a huge terrorist attack as they need to be planned and have chance to get found out but you can't stop things like what happend today, these islamic extremists are so brainwashed its frightening, I just can't see where an end will come to it, their aim is to destroy the west and at some point have a muslim world state but aslong as america exists that will never happen, I agree with that we should not kill these terrorists but make them live in absolute misery as killing them turns them into heroes, people like that should not have any human rights, god bless the victim and his family

The only difference between now and any other time in history is that we know about every single instance of something like this happening and get to shock ourselves over and over again with a digital representation of the act, and that people in general are a lot less religious and fundamental, becoming more enlightened and altruistic. 

 

A man getting hacked to death due to religious sectarianism is an amazingly rare event, while it would be less rare in 19th Century London, and positively common in 16th Century England.

[darrenm]

 

That blog is hilariously misinformed, but this is probably a bit off-topic to the matter at hand.

 

All I'll say is that the below claim is absolutely hilarious.

 

 

it's not difficult for them to do so, unless you use a different DNS server. It becomes almost impossible for them to see what you're actually doing on a web site, unless the site owner is willing to give them traffic logs

 

It's my blog. I work for an ISP. What's not right?

[TrentVilla]

I would have been looking for a heavy object to hit him with or working out how I could take him down.

[The_Rev]

Who filmed that video? And why is there a woman that just walks straight past when he's wielding a **** meat cleaver around?

 

It has been widely reported that the guy who did the murder was asking people to film him. 

 

As for the woman walking straight past? Well, it's entirely possible she could have been oblivious to the guy with the meat cleaver. He wasn't drawing attention to himself, he was talking calmly and he had his back to her.  She has probably seen the guy in the road and the smashed car, assumed it was an accident and decided to go about her business. It was getting on for end of school so she might have had a kid to pick up. 

[Rugeley Villa]

Absolutely terrifying and what next?? What's the world gonna be like in 20 years, to me this is even more terrifying than a huge terrorist attack as they need to be planned and have chance to get found out but you can't stop things like what happend today, these islamic extremists are so brainwashed its frightening, I just can't see where an end will come to it, their aim is to destroy the west and at some point have a muslim world state but aslong as america exists that will never happen, I agree with that we should not kill these terrorists but make them live in absolute misery as killing them turns them into heroes, people like that should not have any human rights, god bless the victim and his family

The only difference between now and any other time in history is that we know about every single instance of something like this happening and get to shock ourselves over and over again with a digital representation of the act, and that people in general are a lot less religious and fundamental, becoming more enlightened and altruistic.

A man getting hacked to death due to religious sectarianism is an amazingly rare event, while it would be less rare in 19th Century London, and positively common in 16th Century England.

true

[Chindie]

You appear to have missed at least some of my point. It's not just the stirring up of hatred by idiots in the EDL or BNP I find distasteful, it includes the peddling of left wing agendas on the back of this mans murder. That is also utilising a heinous crime to further a goal, whether I might agree with that goal or not, and it's rather sickening.

I watched the video and understood it - you don't need to recount it for me. You are jumping to a conclusion I did not make in inferring I request the state conceal the matter. My point is rather more that the media do not, and should not, broadcast anything about this beyond that the event took place and is being investigated. It only serves to give the murderer exactly what he wanted (a similar line of thought is given for high school shootings in the US).

Has there been peddling of left wing agendas? I've seen what EDL and BNP are putting out, but I've not seen the left wing equivalent that you seem to have.

Who other than the state can, or does, get the media not to broadcast things in the co-ordinated way which would be necessary with this? As with the original denial of "the oxygen of publicity", and many examples since.

Do you think that if people like this couldn't get their message broadcast, they wouldn't do it?

I've seen more than a little of it around the various forums I use.

I don't think would require legislation to encourage the media to not shove front and centre a murderer spouting his justification. It would not work perfectly but I think its doable. You'll obviously disagree and quote various press scandals, phone hacking etc. I don't think that marks out the possibility.

I don't think it will make that much difference to the numbers of occurrences like this but making it more difficult to publicise ones message cannot but harm any intention to use media to communicate a message writ in violence and blood.

But as we'll disagree, let's leave it here shall we?

[Davkaus]

 

 

That blog is hilariously misinformed, but this is probably a bit off-topic to the matter at hand.

 

All I'll say is that the below claim is absolutely hilarious.

 

 

it's not difficult for them to do so, unless you use a different DNS server. It becomes almost impossible for them to see what you're actually doing on a web site, unless the site owner is willing to give them traffic logs

 

It's my blog. I work for an ISP. What's not right?

 

 

 

The DNS servers used have no impact upon whether or not your usage can be logged by your ISP (or anyone else who can monitor your traffic). All it affects is the speed at which your machine can determine the IP address of the target server, if it's not already locally cached. The hostname and IP address that you're contacting are still transmitted in clear-text and can be reviewed and subject to traffic-shaping and restrictions by an ISP. The only way to prevent this are a middle man, such as a VPN or a proxy, so that it's the only IP your ISP sees you connecting to (though this obviously just means that they replace your ISP as the party that can snoop on your web-traffic). Adjusting your DNS server has no effect at all.

[maqroll]

 

Islam doesn't drive people to murder, nor does Christianity

 

I think ancient history and modern day events disprove this statement....in fact, fanatical religiosity is probably the biggest cause of death the world has ever known, other than disease and famine, etc.

 

I understand your point that killers will kill no matter what, but institutionalized belief systems, be they religious or political, can be used to indoctrinate, brainwash, and turn otherwise peaceful people into butchers.

[CI]

I would have been looking for a heavy object to hit him with or working out how I could take him down.

Same here, I feel a bit disgusted that nobody tried to intervene, instead you have people taking their smart phones out and filming them

Makes me angry

[Con]

 

 

Islam doesn't drive people to murder, nor does Christianity

 

I think ancient history and modern day events disprove this statement....in fact, fanatical religiosity is probably the biggest cause of death the world has ever known, other than disease and famine, etc.

 

I understand your point that killers will kill no matter what, but institutionalized belief systems, be they religious or political, can be used to indoctrinate, brainwash, and turn otherwise peaceful people into butchers.

 

 

 

There were warring states, and families, before organized religions existed. Not saying religions aren't used for violence, they can be, just that if you're talking about ancient history, states are far more ancient, and bloodthirsty, than organized religion.

[Davkaus]

It turns out that few people want to put themselves in the way of someone who is holding a weapon after they've just hacked another man to death.

 

Personally, if I were there, I'd get the **** out of the way. Expecting bystanders to intervene seems a bit unfair.

[maqroll]

 

 

 

Islam doesn't drive people to murder, nor does Christianity

 

I think ancient history and modern day events disprove this statement....in fact, fanatical religiosity is probably the biggest cause of death the world has ever known, other than disease and famine, etc.

 

I understand your point that killers will kill no matter what, but institutionalized belief systems, be they religious or political, can be used to indoctrinate, brainwash, and turn otherwise peaceful people into butchers.

 

 

 

There were warring states, and families, before organized religions existed. Not saying religions aren't used for violence, they can be, just that if you're talking about ancient history, states are far more ancient, and bloodthirsty, than organized religion.

 

Yup, that's why I included political beliefs in there 

[Ingram85]

Without wishing to add to the unwarranted stigma attached to 'mental health', I get a distinct feeling of men who may or may not be known to mental health services in London who have not had their depot injection or any contact with services for quite some time.