LondonLax Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 (edited) it's nearly riot season too We need another Olympics to bring back the love Edited May 22, 2013 by LondonLax 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshVilla Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 (edited) "Islamic extremism is to Islam as the KKK is to Christianity". I don't think for a moment that this attack has anything to do with terrorism. There is footage and eyewitness reports of two blokes yelling "allahu akbar" demanding that the UK people overthrow their own government and that "nobody is safe" while they are in power and atrocities like this occur in their country every day Terrorism is the use of violence and intimidation in pursuit of political aims Considering they killed a British soldier i think this may be viewed as a strike against the government... Edited May 22, 2013 by AshVilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 it's nearly riot season too Not warm enough yet We need a week of mid 20's temps and BBQ's before it kicks off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 "Islamic extremism is to Islam as the KKK is to Christianity". Yes and no. Racism is not a core principle in Christianity, but there are enough racist statements and passages in the Bible for it to be used as 'justification' for scum like the KKK. Jihad, on the other hand, is a core principle in Islam. To quote Sam Harris 'fundamentalism is only a problem if the fundamentals of your religion are violent. A truly peaceful religion would result in the fundamentalists being less violent than the moderates'. Fundamentalist Christians are whack jobs, but for the most part they are not violent. Orthodox Jews are utterly mental, but again for the most part they are not violent. Fundamentalist Islam, however, consistently leads to appalling acts of violence. But let's not let this discussion get too off track, I don't think for a moment that this attack has anything to do with terrorism. RJ - but that is it it's not off track. There is a valid argument that Jewish terrorism is alive well and kicking in certain parts of the middle east. Christian terrorism certainly exists as we see just across the Irish sea. Reading some of the vile rantings on Twitter and FB you start to wonder what are the things that people are following and what they are against. I am not a Muslim, but at times like this you have to start to ask why certain people who hide behind the banner of that religion act like they do. Then you have to ask why other people hide behind other religious titles also. You are seeing things like "groups should be sent back to their own country", how does that work then, when a lot of the extremists actually were born and live here. On Twitter I was going to just unfollow certain people becuase of what they have written, but have not done so because it's interesting to see what utter garbage they are writing as fact. Without understanding what their views are you cannot really argue against them when necessary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrees Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 Basically it's a racist attack, but political correctness requires it to be dressed up as something else, thus giving credence to whatever 'cause' the perpetrators claim. Racist? What do you mean? More likely political if the guy they attacked was a soldier. As i stated, giving credence to the cause. If the perpetrator's survive, then they should be charged with racially aggravated murder. Let's hope that they don't, and we are spared the fundamentalist showcase. I am trying to work out why you think it was to do with his race? It seems like he was attacked because he was a soldier, we don't actually know if he was even white do we? I don't see where racial attack has come into it from what we know so far? The victim's ethnicity is irrelevant. He was a British soldier, and the perpetrators have been reported as jabbering on about "their lands". The word 'racist' has been misused for so long that its meaning has broadened widely-remember that Emmanuel Petit called Villa supporters 'racist' for their behaviour towards him. If the government allow this to be declared a terrorist attack (and they will), then the 'cause' is being glorified further, potentially emboldening other disaffected people to carry out similar atrocities. How can you claim it was about race in once sentence but say ethnicity is irrelevant in the next? With respect my explanation immediately followed the statement regarding the victim's ethnicity. I think we may have different definitions of 'race' and 'racist'. In this instance, yes, purely because of the broadened misuse that I mentioned and have applied in this case. My belief is that misuse should be put to good use to avoid referring to this as a terrorist act. Under normal circumstances I would probably agree more with your definition. There's a bloke at the airport who works on security and is of the same extraction of the perpetrators of this crime. He has been heard to declare his absolute hatred of Americans, all Americans, black, white or Hispanic. I am not sure what that makes him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 "This attack on a member of the Armed Forces is dishonourable, and no cause justifies this murder." - Muslim Council of Britain statement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post PompeyVillan Posted May 22, 2013 Popular Post Share Posted May 22, 2013 "Islamic extremism is to Islam as the KKK is to Christianity". Yes and no. Racism is not a core principle in Christianity, but there are enough racist statements and passages in the Bible for it to be used as 'justification' for scum like the KKK. Jihad, on the other hand, is a core principle in Islam. To quote Sam Harris 'fundamentalism is only a problem if the fundamentals of your religion are violent. A truly peaceful religion would result in the fundamentalists being less violent than the moderates'. Fundamentalist Christians are whack jobs, but for the most part they are not violent. Orthodox Jews are utterly mental, but again for the most part they are not violent. Fundamentalist Islam, however, consistently leads to appalling acts of violence. But let's not let this discussion get too off track, I don't think for a moment that this attack has anything to do with terrorism. 'Terrorism', is a loose and misunderstood term. It tends to be used in which violence is used in the public sphere for maximum impact and publicity. 'Acts of terror', tend to be those in which innocent people are killed. But really, a terrorist is really only someone who is fighting for a different cause to you. To those Somali nutjobs, our government are the terrorists. I believe your perception of Islam is incorrect, I don't think it is a violent religion. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 There's a bloke at the airport who works on security and is of the same extraction of the perpetrators of this crime. He has been heard to declare his absolute hatred of Americans, all Americans, black, white or Hispanic. I am not sure what that makes him. An idiot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 it's nearly riot season too It already is in Stockholm... There's a bloke at the airport who works on security and is of the same extraction of the perpetrators of this crime. He has been heard to declare his absolute hatred of Americans, all Americans, black, white or Hispanic. I am not sure what that makes him. An idiot? A liability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 Apparently EDL scumbags are gathering in Woolwich. That should calm the situation nicely. But at least the pubs'll make a few bob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliffy Biro Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 How on earth is a guy like that allowed to work in that environment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrees Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 There's a bloke at the airport who works on security and is of the same extraction of the perpetrators of this crime. He has been heard to declare his absolute hatred of Americans, all Americans, black, white or Hispanic. I am not sure what that makes him. An idiot? A racist, or a terrorist? He could be the former. I assume that he isn't the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 it's nearly riot season tooNot warm enough yet We need a week of mid 20's temps and BBQ's before it kicks off and the school holidays! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted May 22, 2013 Author Share Posted May 22, 2013 'Terrorism', is a loose and misunderstood term. It tends to be used in which violence is used in the public sphere for maximum impact and publicity. 'Acts of terror', tend to be those in which innocent people are killed. But really, a terrorist is really only someone who is fighting for a different cause to you. To those Somali nutjobs, our government are the terrorists. Quite. And speaking as a man in his mid thirties I feel almost compelled to point out that if they were going to remake the original Star Wars trilogy they wouldn't be able to at the moment because lets face it, by our current definitions Luke Skywalker is a terrorist motivated purely by a recent religious conversion. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leemond2008 Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 Just wondering if this is getting any coverage in America? I know the Boston bombings were on a much larger scale but at the end of the day it was a ''terrorist'' attack carried out by two people who planted a bomb this one at the end of the day was a ''terrorist'' attack carried out by two people who ran over and beheaded a man and then wanted to pose for pictures with the public whilst covered in blood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 It's on the front pages of most news websites here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 There's a bloke at the airport who works on security and is of the same extraction of the perpetrators of this crime. He has been heard to declare his absolute hatred of Americans, all Americans, black, white or Hispanic. I am not sure what that makes him. An idiot? A racist, or a terrorist? He could be the former. I assume that he isn't the latter. If he means citizens of the USA regardless of race, then racist is not the word to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leemond2008 Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 There's a bloke at the airport who works on security and is of the same extraction of the perpetrators of this crime. He has been heard to declare his absolute hatred of Americans, all Americans, black, white or Hispanic. I am not sure what that makes him. An idiot? A racist, or a terrorist? He could be the former. I assume that he isn't the latter. If he means citizens of the USA regardless of race, then racist is not the word to use. would that make him a xenophobe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted May 22, 2013 Author Share Posted May 22, 2013 Just wondering if this is getting any coverage in America? I know the Boston bombings were on a much larger scale but at the end of the day it was a ''terrorist'' attack carried out by two people who planted a bomb this one at the end of the day was a ''terrorist'' attack carried out by two people who ran over and beheaded a man and then wanted to pose for pictures with the public whilst covered in blood Reddit is always a good barometer for this kind of thing. It melted down after Boston and caused quite a few stories itself by how it reacted. At the moment the story is almost buried at the bottom of the front page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted May 22, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted May 22, 2013 "Islamic extremism is to Islam as the KKK is to Christianity". Yes and no. Racism is not a core principle in Christianity, but there are enough racist statements and passages in the Bible for it to be used as 'justification' for scum like the KKK. Jihad, on the other hand, is a core principle in Islam. To quote Sam Harris 'fundamentalism is only a problem if the fundamentals of your religion are violent. A truly peaceful religion would result in the fundamentalists being less violent than the moderates'. Fundamentalist Christians are whack jobs, but for the most part they are not violent. Orthodox Jews are utterly mental, but again for the most part they are not violent. Fundamentalist Islam, however, consistently leads to appalling acts of violence. But let's not let this discussion get too off track, I don't think for a moment that this attack has anything to do with terrorism. 'Terrorism', is a loose and misunderstood term. It tends to be used in which violence is used in the public sphere for maximum impact and publicity. 'Acts of terror', tend to be those in which innocent people are killed. But really, a terrorist is really only someone who is fighting for a different cause to you. To those Somali nutjobs, our government are the terrorists. I believe your perception of Islam is incorrect, I don't think it is a violent religion. Not quite. It's true that it's a difficult and loosely used term - never satisfactorily defined - but the the one liner there is wrong. A terrorist can fight for your cause. There is no difference between a freedom fighter and a terrorist. Terrorism is a methodology. It's the use of fear, intentional or not, to bring about a political aim. Where it involves violence the victim is used as a conduit to communicate a message. Acts of terror are committed daily - it's a fairly effective methodology. In our name and against us. Anywho as for this whole event... It's sad that in the immediate aftermath people are using the heinous murder of a man to strengthen their political aims. We don't need to care what this man wanted to bring to the attention of the world by murdering someone. He's simply a murderer. Using the act, to rally against whatever he wanted to make a point about, is quite distasteful in my view. A man has been brutally murdered. Don't take that as an opportunity to start wheeling out your left wing or right wing bandwagon. Let justice take it's course with this murderer, deny him the oxygen of publicity for anything he wanted to broadcast, and let his actions quietly be left to pass from memory. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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