villanwesty88 Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 Good appointment for Sunderland and very quickly too. I think they'll be out of the dog fight next year for the first time in god knows how long! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted July 23, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted July 23, 2016 Very interesting move for Moyes I think. Not one I thought he would take unless he's been promised transfer funds and a lot of it. Could be the final nail in his managerial career. Certainly didn't choose the safe option. Fwiw, I think he will do okay there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Platt Posted July 23, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted July 23, 2016 Yep I wanted Moyes so be interesting to watch and see if he can turn Sunderland into anything other than relegation scrappers! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 No messing from Sunderland. I think Moyes is a good solid appointment for them and should at the very least ensure they aren't involved in another relegation battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 So do we have any players Moyes ever shown interest in? Lescott perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 yeah big test for Moyes, I think he lost his spirit when at Sociedad so if he goes in half arsed here then Sunderland will go down. Defoe I doubt will thrive under Moyes also nice to see he woke up and relaised he wasnt getting a top 6 job anytime soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 13 hours ago, VillaChris said: Chelsea will never appoint a British manager while Abramovich owns the club...it's widely known he dosen't rate English/british managers one little bit. Can't see Arsenal going for one either with the playing legacy Wenger will leave. English managers still seen as tactically inflexible, rabbits in headlights when things go wrong, confused messages from touchline etc for clubs to consider them working with elite players. I think Moyes 9 months at Man. United summed that up. What an English manager needs to do is take over a mid table ish club and win a trophy or two as that's really what attracts the clubs e.g. who's winning the trophies. Let's say Eddie Howe moves to Southampton, wins them an FA cup and then next season wins them the europa league, I fail to see how he wouldn't be a major target for the elite clubs as he'd very much be in the spotlight. Would PSG have appointed Unai Emery if he wasn't winning europa league every season? That's actually how Hodgson got the Liverpool job in 2010, reached the europa league final so his name was very much in fashion. What's certain is Eddie Howe isn't getting a top job anytime soon finishing 16th every season with Bournemouth even if that's an impressive achievement in itself and they play nice football. I know you're quoting other people's opinions, so this isn't meant as a dig at you, but it's funny to see the idea that British managers are 'tactically inflexible' right after the idea Arsenal wouldn't go for a British manager. I mean, people can say what they like about Allardyce, for example, but he's tried many more systems and formations and been a hell of a lot more adaptable than Wenger has over the last ten years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 14 hours ago, VillaChris said: Chelsea will never appoint a British manager while Abramovich owns the club...it's widely known he dosen't rate English/british managers one little bit. Can't see Arsenal going for one either with the playing legacy Wenger will leave. English managers still seen as tactically inflexible, rabbits in headlights when things go wrong, confused messages from touchline etc for clubs to consider them working with elite players. I think Moyes 9 months at Man. United summed that up. What an English manager needs to do is take over a mid table ish club and win a trophy or two as that's really what attracts the clubs e.g. who's winning the trophies. Let's say Eddie Howe moves to Southampton, wins them an FA cup and then next season wins them the europa league, I fail to see how he wouldn't be a major target for the elite clubs as he'd very much be in the spotlight. Would PSG have appointed Unai Emery if he wasn't winning europa league every season? That's actually how Hodgson got the Liverpool job in 2010, reached the europa league final so his name was very much in fashion. What's certain is Eddie Howe isn't getting a top job anytime soon finishing 16th every season with Bournemouth even if that's an impressive achievement in itself and they play nice football. I'm not sure he's leaving a particularly good legacy to be honest. His greatest success for Arsenal (mid-late 90s and early 2000s) had them playing more direct football and was also at a time where they had world class forward players. The past decade has see him re-model the style of football and it hasn't delivered enough. It's not even clear that the Arsenal fans are too enamored with this new found 'Arsenal way'. I'm sure they'd trade that in if he meant winning the league and doing better in the Champions League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyp102 Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 You can see why Moyes has taken the job. He likes a solid defence and Allardyce has set the foundations there. There is money available to add his players in (Felianni first signing?). If he gets Sunderland top half-12th its a big improvement on where they have been recently and his reputation is restored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 17 hours ago, Czechlad said: Hodgson was at Liverpool Hughes was at City Redknapp was at Spurs Sherwood was at Spurs There have been chances, but the English managers just didn't cut it. Hodgson - I agree. Hughes - Not sure what he has to do with English managers Redknapp - Took Spurs to their first Champions League - got to the QFs Sherwood - Pocchettino this season: 70 points in 38 games (1.84 points per game). Sherwood at Spurs: 38 points in 20 games (1.9 points per game). One is a shit manager. The other considered some sort of genius. It just shows the general allowance that foreign managers get IMO. I think Sherwood is shit, but he couldn't keep his job at Spurs after a very good return. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 15 hours ago, VillaChris said: Chelsea will never appoint a British manager while Abramovich owns the club...it's widely known he dosen't rate English/british managers one little bit. Can't see Arsenal going for one either with the playing legacy Wenger will leave. English managers still seen as tactically inflexible, rabbits in headlights when things go wrong, confused messages from touchline etc for clubs to consider them working with elite players. I think Moyes 9 months at Man. United summed that up. What an English manager needs to do is take over a mid table ish club and win a trophy or two as that's really what attracts the clubs e.g. who's winning the trophies. Let's say Eddie Howe moves to Southampton, wins them an FA cup and then next season wins them the europa league, I fail to see how he wouldn't be a major target for the elite clubs as he'd very much be in the spotlight. Would PSG have appointed Unai Emery if he wasn't winning europa league every season? That's actually how Hodgson got the Liverpool job in 2010, reached the europa league final so his name was very much in fashion. What's certain is Eddie Howe isn't getting a top job anytime soon finishing 16th every season with Bournemouth even if that's an impressive achievement in itself and they play nice football. I'd generally agree with this. The issue is, there's only so many trophies to go around and there's 6 or so clubs with Europe + massive money every year. It's going to be tough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 3 hours ago, kurtsimonw said: Hodgson - I agree. Hughes - Not sure what he has to do with English managers Redknapp - Took Spurs to their first Champions League - got to the QFs Sherwood - Pocchettino this season: 70 points in 38 games (1.84 points per game). Sherwood at Spurs: 38 points in 20 games (1.9 points per game). One is a shit manager. The other considered some sort of genius. It just shows the general allowance that foreign managers get IMO. I think Sherwood is shit, but he couldn't keep his job at Spurs after a very good return. Spurs were smart enough to work out what we were too stupid to see, which is that Sherwood is fine as a short-term firefighter with quality players at his disposal, but that he can't build a squad to a play a particular style. The best investors are those that manage to get out at the top of the market. Spurs managed that with Sherwood; we didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 Just now, HanoiVillan said: Spurs were smart enough to work out what we were too stupid to see, which is that Sherwood is fine as a short-term firefighter with quality players at his disposal, but that he can't build a squad to a play a particular style. The best investors are those that manage to get out at the top of the market. Spurs managed that with Sherwood; we didn't. I agree he's crap. Doesn't change the facts on how impressive his results were at Spurs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 Just now, kurtsimonw said: I agree he's crap. Doesn't change the facts on how impressive his results were at Spurs. I didn't say it did. But the fact he's a firefighter who can't be trusted to sign a player is not exactly irrelevant to the discussion of 'why English managers don't get chances'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 Just now, HanoiVillan said: I didn't say it did. But the fact he's a firefighter who can't be trusted to sign a player is not exactly irrelevant to the discussion of 'why English managers don't get chances'. But even then, it's just an opinion like mine is. There's no evidence as to what he would do at a top club. He never had an opportunity to sign a player at Spurs, he never had an opportunity to build a team. Yes, he was shit at Villa. If he got the job at Spurs, who knows what would happen? I personally think it would have been a failure. But I personally thought Garde would do well at Villa, so I'm hardly going to assume I'd have been 100% correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 1 minute ago, kurtsimonw said: But even then, it's just an opinion like mine is. There's no evidence as to what he would do at a top club. He never had an opportunity to sign a player at Spurs, he never had an opportunity to build a team. Yes, he was shit at Villa. If he got the job at Spurs, who knows what would happen? I personally think it would have been a failure. But I personally thought Garde would do well at Villa, so I'm hardly going to assume I'd have been 100% correct. Everything on this site is just an opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 (edited) 3 hours ago, Dr_Pangloss said: I'm not sure he's leaving a particularly good legacy to be honest. His greatest success for Arsenal (mid-late 90s and early 2000s) had them playing more direct football and was also at a time where they had world class forward players. The past decade has see him re-model the style of football and it hasn't delivered enough. It's not even clear that the Arsenal fans are too enamored with this new found 'Arsenal way'. I'm sure they'd trade that in if he meant winning the league and doing better in the Champions League. More in terms of squad....if Wenger left tomorrow new manager would have Cech, KosGoating, Ozil, Alexis, Ramsey all to work with, that's arguably better than Fergie left at Man. United and bit different to when Wenger turned up and Eddie McGoldrick and Steve Morrow were in his early training sessions. I do take Hanoi's point but Arsenal are still seen across Europe as one of the most stylish football teams and play in champions league every season even if that's a bit pointless as they never do anything in the competition. They'll have seen what happened to Man. United post Fergie though so no chance imo they appoint a novice like Howe. Edited July 23, 2016 by VillaChris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 (edited) Can't believe Sunderland have lasted so long. They've been riding their luck just as long as we were but unlike us they've had some immense luck with the officials (not that that would've saved us last season). They're the new Wigan. Edited July 23, 2016 by Mantis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 2 minutes ago, Mantis said: Can't believe Sunderland have lasted so long. They've been riding their luck just as long as we were but unlike us they've had some immense luck with the officials (not that that would've saved us last season). They're the new Wigan. They've suffered from mis-management for the most part. Allardyce probably would have done relatively well this season, Moyes I feel is good enough to steer them to a comfortable bottom half finished as long as he gets the recruitment right. They have a lot of good fundamentals as a football club which is more than can be said about Wigan. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 7 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said: They've suffered from mis-management for the most part. Allardyce probably would have done relatively well this season, Moyes I feel is good enough to steer them to a comfortable bottom half finished as long as he gets the recruitment right. They have a lot of good fundamentals as a football club which is more than can be said about Wigan. Could say the same about us though. We've been mis-managed but they sem to have somehow come out of it without even being relegated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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