Popular Post darrenm Posted January 14, 2013 Popular Post Share Posted January 14, 2013 It's almost perfect but forgets that Warnock has been a troublemaker behind the scenes since almost his first year here, was putting in far worse performances than Bennett even when surrounded by more experienced players, and that Hutton is a player with nothing to his game apart from his 'Glasgow' and that he was central to the incident in Broad Street that the club managed to hush up. Lambert obviously had no choice in freezing these players out (Collins and Dunne included) as he didn't even try them out when he first arrived. Lerner obviously gave him instruction that they were not to be used, there's no other explanation. Therefore, the answer to the question they're posing is, a bit of short term over investment to give us a chance of staying in the league, offset it against the TV money and hope it works, then stick with Lambert while giving him sensible transfer chests. While being relatively successful we should generate enough revenue to put us back to the top of the also-rans of the PL. Continuity is the key. How much is Baines worth now? That will be Lowton in a few years and I daresay, Bennett if he settles into the club and role over a few years. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sutherland Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Is this word removed of a charlaten still here!.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Are people still defending him? Must just be unlucky, failing at being an owner in two different sports. Poor guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KjParton Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 the fact he's not going to splash the cash when we desperately need it is worrying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Have we signed anyone yet? I just ask because it's 15th January tomorrow and we really need players in to help us in January! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshVilla Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Have we signed anyone yet? I just ask because it's 15th January tomorrow and we really need players in to help us in January! Im scared what the scoreline will be against the baggies should we not get any players in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 There is no question.... we need players in. but to be fair 200 million spent and this is where we are.....they all ought to be shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulfromsutton Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Another day gone and no signings. It's ok though not like we are threatened with relegation, shipping goals for fun etc....... Oh wait. Half way through the window and no signings played a few games in January already and if there was any sort of planning we could have had players in and more chance of gaining some draws/wins Its just crap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozvillafan Posted January 14, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted January 14, 2013 Interesting article here: http://howtosolveapr...spot.co.uk/?m=1 Worth repeating that - especially this part, for some of the snide comments in this thread: If Villa fans think we’re going to go out and sign Lescott and Parker this January, then they are sadly misguided. Look at it like this: Why would their clubs sell them in January? If they would, why wouldn’t the rest of the Premier League want to sign them (we’re not Martin O’Neill’s Aston Villa anymore, we’re not even the Aston Villa Darren Bent joined. We don’t have that pulling power sadly)? And if they will be sold, and no one better off than us wants them, are we just repeating the mistakes of the past by paying players past their peak big wages and affording them the inevitable long contracts? Any players that fit all the criteria and our wage structure will be inferior footballers to the ones we have already. I’m sorry, but that’s just wasting money again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Are people still defending him? Must just be unlucky, failing at being an owner in two different sports. Poor guy. every page has to be an insult at the man? he is hardly going around kicking puppies or stealing schoolkids lunch money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickyhell Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 If he does not pull a rabbit out of the hat soon he is going to watch the value of his investment disintegrate. His money, his call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 every page has to be an insult at the man? he is hardly going around kicking puppies or stealing schoolkids lunch money Oh No! That's probably made it a dead cert that tomorrow's Bad News About Villa will be a headline "Randy Lerner caught kicking a puppies and stealing a schoolkid's lunch money". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christ_JM Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 There is no question.... we need players in. but to be fair 200 million spent and this is where we are.....they all ought to be shot. how much have we recouped from players sold? the other income ie season tickets, prize money, tv deals, sponsorship should offset running costs. he has not invested that much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 how much have we recouped from players sold? the other income ie season tickets, prize money, tv deals, sponsorship should offset running costs. he has not invested that much If you go by the figures from .http://www.transferleague.co.uk, he has spent £192.5, over his seven seasons - so far: let's hope he hasn't finished spending for this season! - and recouped £102.4m, so about £90m net over seven seasons - just under £13m each season on average. Of course there is all the money that has gone on wages as well, and the payoffs for 3 sacked managers + payments to Naaaaarch for the fourth, so he will have spent a lot more than that on the playing side of the club. One of the causes of our current problems could be the unevenness of the spending. In net terms, he has spent £14.1m, £6.25m, £45.3m, £18.6m, £4.7m, -£20.5m, £21.7m. That is a bit of a switchback and it might have been better if he's just spent...£13m each year. However, I do agree with TRO that the squad we have at the end of all that expenditure is woeful. When you look at all the players we have bought since Lerner arrived, this is where we have ended up: MON Sold/released: Didier Agathe Chris Sutton John Carew Ashley Young Shaun Maloney Nigel Reo-Coker Marlon Harewood Zat Knight Moustapha Salifou Wayne Routledge Curtis Davies Steven Sidwell Brad Friedel Nicky Shorey Luke Young Carlos Cuellar James Milner Emile Heskey Stewart Downing Habib Beye James Collins Still in squad Stiliyan Petrov (not playing) Brad Guzan (1st team regular) Richard Dunne (?possibly 1st team squad if he ever gets fit) Stephen Warnock (not wanted, trains with reserves) Fabian Delph (1st team squad - current first choice?) Houllier Still in squad Stephen Ireland (in 1st team squad: not first choice) Jean Makoun (on permanent loan, won't play for Villa) Darren Bent (in 1st team squad: not first choice) McLeish Still in squad Shay Given (in 1st team squad: not first choice) Charles N'Zogbia (Occasional 1st team player) Alan Hutton (On loan, not wanted?) Enda Stevens (Occasional 1st team player) So so about £170m investment (i.e. spent before Lambert) has rendered at best 9 players who can put in a turn in the first team and only 2 or 3 who are regular first choice. That is a terrible return for all that investment and does explain a lot about why we are in such chaos at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevangrealish Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Worth repeating that - especially this part, for some of the snide comments in this thread: Very good article. Read a lot of it anyway. I see entirely where he's coming from especially the fact that we hired MON as a fresh start ( which seemed like a brilliant idea at the start ) . Houllier to bring fresh young talent and build for a future ( which he had done in the past ) . Then Mcleish to balance the books with a tight budget ( who seemed like the only candidate to accept it ) When you look at it like that they were three ideas that were on the right lines but just havent worked, but at the end of the day you have to blame someone for the downfall :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 That article reminds me that people wanting to defend Lerner have to get more contorted in their arguments by the day. It's "straw man" syndrome again, as well. When the author saysThe most common accusation from supporters (and recently sections of the media) is that Randy Lerner hasn’t invested the requisite amount of money to make Villa competitive. well that isn't actually the complaint. It's that Lerner has invested the money poorly, with no clear plan for financial sustainability and with wildly optimistic assumptions about what could be achieved. Also that he has chopped and changed the strategy and switched style of manager so that the squad is littered with unwanted (and sometimes very expensive) remnants of previous managers' buying preferences. The content of the article demonstrates all this quite clearly. One main thing it skates over is just how disastrous the Houllier interlude was for the club. He it was who took us from a top 6 club into a relegation battle within a few months, who alienated (but failed to move out of the club) some of our most experienced and costly players and failed to bring any coherence of playing style to replace what we had under O'Neill. He also spent the largest single amount of money on any player bought in the Lerrner era, to get us out of the relegation hole. And what's that player doing now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 If you go by the figures from .http://www.transferleague.co.uk, he has spent £192.5, over his seven seasons - so far: let's hope he hasn't finished spending for this season! - and recouped £102.4m, so about £90m net over seven seasons - just under £13m each season on average. Of course there is all the money that has gone on wages as well, and the payoffs for 3 sacked managers + payments to Naaaaarch for the fourth, so he will have spent a lot more than that on the playing side of the club. One of the causes of our current problems could be the unevenness of the spending. In net terms, he has spent £14.1m, £6.25m, £45.3m, £18.6m, £4.7m, -£20.5m, £21.7m. That is a bit of a switchback and it might have been better if he's just spent...£13m each year. However, I do agree with TRO that the squad we have at the end of all that expenditure is woeful. When you look at all the players we have bought since Lerner arrived, this is where we have ended up: MON Sold/released: Didier Agathe Chris Sutton John Carew Ashley Young Shaun Maloney Nigel Reo-Coker Marlon Harewood Zat Knight Moustapha Salifou Wayne Routledge Curtis Davies Steven Sidwell Brad Friedel Nicky Shorey Luke Young Carlos Cuellar James Milner Emile Heskey Stewart Downing Habib Beye James Collins Still in squad Stiliyan Petrov (not playing) Brad Guzan (1st team regular) Richard Dunne (?possibly 1st team squad if he ever gets fit) Stephen Warnock (not wanted, trains with reserves) Fabian Delph (1st team squad - current first choice?) Houllier Still in squad Stephen Ireland (in 1st team squad: not first choice) Jean Makoun (on permanent loan, won't play for Villa) Darren Bent (in 1st team squad: not first choice) McLeish Still in squad Shay Given (in 1st team squad: not first choice) Charles N'Zogbia (Occasional 1st team player) Alan Hutton (On loan, not wanted?) Enda Stevens (Occasional 1st team player) So so about £170m investment (i.e. spent before Lambert) has rendered at best 9 players who can put in a turn in the first team and only 2 or 3 who are regular first choice. That is a terrible return for all that investment and does explain a lot about why we are in such chaos at the moment. I think the frightening thought is that even if we had all the players listed here still on the books (or at least a pick of the best). While we would be nowhere near the mess we are in now - we would be nowhere near the top 3 or 4 imo. It really has been 200m spent on an absolute load of shite. Even the best players (Ash, Jimmy etc) are actually poor when it comes to the very top level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-Reacho Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 (edited) http://goo.gl/DAVSE Interesting article about how leaderless we are in a footballing sense. I know people on here have raised issues as to how reliable this guy is (the journalist). Quite interesting that he says O'Neill spent £20m more than was agreed with Randy. Did he actually give O'Neill his account details? Seems incredible - especially when the last £20m O'Neill spent at Villa would have been Dunne, Warnock, and Collins. He clearly blew his budget before he even looked at replacing the back 4 - hence the overspend. Edited January 15, 2013 by El-Reacho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 That article reminds me that people wanting to defend Lerner have to get more contorted in their arguments by the day. It's "straw man" syndrome again, as well. When the author says well that isn't actually the complaint. It's that Lerner has invested the money poorly, with no clear plan for financial sustainability and with wildly optimistic assumptions about what could be achieved. Also that he has chopped and changed the strategy and switched style of manager so that the squad is littered with unwanted (and sometimes very expensive) remnants of previous managers' buying preferences. The content of the article demonstrates all this quite clearly. One main thing it skates over is just how disastrous the Houllier interlude was for the club. He it was who took us from a top 6 club into a relegation battle within a few months, who alienated (but failed to move out of the club) some of our most experienced and costly players and failed to bring any coherence of playing style to replace what we had under O'Neill. He also spent the largest single amount of money on any player bought in the Lerrner era, to get us out of the relegation hole. And what's that player doing now? I agree with you on Houllier, he really let the club down before he had his health problems. As I said before, in hindsight it would have been better to have him in a development role with a young, hungry manager like Lambert as coach. That was probably Randy's biggest missed opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 So so lucky that we have Lerner. He wouldn't **** us over and get us relegated like those awful Blackburn and Blose chairman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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