The Randy Lerner thread

[avfc1982am]

I hate this man so much.

Talksport (yes I know!) have done some research in to net spend (it's not just us who are interested in it!) and looked at the 13 teams who have remained in the league over the last five years. It makes for some very depressing, if not surprising, reading:

13. Tottenham with net spend of £2.5m - helped by Bale's £65m sale no doubt!
12. Aston Villa with net spend of £15.4m - so £3m a season as has been a figure banded around here a lot
11. Stoke City with a net spend of £26.1m - over 50% more than us already
10. Everton with a net spend of £29.1m - yes, tight-fisted Everton have spent nearly double our amount.
09. Swansea with a net spend of £31.8m
08. West Brom with a net spend of £42m - our local rivals have spent THREE times as much as we have
07. Sunderland with a net spend of £43.7m - commonly referred in the press and under invested.
06. Arsenal with a net spend of £47.1m
05. Newcastle with a net spend of £69m - again, the selling for assets ridiculous Mike Ashley has invested nearly five times as much
04 - 01. Top four obviously!

(http://talksport.com/football/premier-league-clubs-ranked-net-spend-last-five-summer-transfer-windows-150903165355)

When you see the figures like this it does make me wonder how there can be any blame at managers feet with such a lack of investment year on year. In fact you could argue even the likes of McLeish and Lambert did well considering the budget. It really makes my blood boil that the press, especially the local press, aren't highlighting this more. It's DISGUSTING.

Furthermore, where the hell is the money?! How can Stoke, Swansea and West Brom in particular be bringing in more money than we are?! Then there would be the wages argument, but I can't find that anywhere, obviously it was big but now it must be very very low. But surely no bigger than the above teams. Or people may argue we are still paying for over spending prior to this time - well that would mean by now we should be matching the above teams, and yet we still can't. West Brom still spent £27m this season.

And it's not revisionism, it's not rose tinted glasses, but Ellis would have been slaughtered week on week for this lack of investment. He at least had the balls to show up! Why are me more accepting of it because it's Lerner?

Where are the fans protests? Why isn't there more of a fuss? Why are we accepting this? Have we been beaten down so much that we just don't have any fight left? At the very least, forgetting the wish to be a top six/four club, we should be competing with the likes of Everton, Sunderland etc.

I know this will fall on deaf ears, I just get annoyed that there are so few people who care any more.

I think you make good points however the current situation although very much of Lerner's own doing is also down to massive mismanagement within the footballing side of things. Lerner whether people like it or not has already spent a fortune since he arrived and I believe under the pretences that those spending it knew what they were doing. The club was always going to have to become self sustainable in the long term and we are doing now what should have been done when O'Neil arrived imo- Bring in high quality youth with long term resale value. We didn't and ultimately paid the price with the cutbacks over the last few years after paying high wages for ageing footballers. 

It needed to happen though and now with the investment from the sale of tekkers and the delph we are addressing the quality of the squad as a whole. Personally I don't buy into the crap that you have to spend fortunes to remain competitive or build. Or that we need to keep spending thee same net £'s as everyone else. No doubt you need funds however getting in the right manager and coaching staff is just as important. 

Most people have been unhappy and like you last season I had enough however Lambert has now gone, Lerner is staying(at least for now), and we as a club, although not spending the amounts as some, have invested very well in the transfer market this summer. We have rid ourselves of the majority of players enjoying a free ride and have players with ambition and points to prove. All the ingredients to move forward as a club again. A cracking summer imo.

We have a clean slate to now work with including the fans. New journey's to travel and heroes to build along the way. After the bullshit of the last few years I think we all need a break. A break from negativity! The crowds need to be brought back Villa Park with entertaining football and we need to encourage our team and not cry about net spend. 

I also think we are competing with Everton and Sunderland this year and think we will finish above both. 

[TRO]

I hate this man so much.

Talksport (yes I know!) have done some research in to net spend (it's not just us who are interested in it!) and looked at the 13 teams who have remained in the league over the last five years. It makes for some very depressing, if not surprising, reading:

13. Tottenham with net spend of £2.5m - helped by Bale's £65m sale no doubt!
12. Aston Villa with net spend of £15.4m - so £3m a season as has been a figure banded around here a lot
11. Stoke City with a net spend of £26.1m - over 50% more than us already
10. Everton with a net spend of £29.1m - yes, tight-fisted Everton have spent nearly double our amount.
09. Swansea with a net spend of £31.8m
08. West Brom with a net spend of £42m - our local rivals have spent THREE times as much as we have
07. Sunderland with a net spend of £43.7m - commonly referred in the press and under invested.
06. Arsenal with a net spend of £47.1m
05. Newcastle with a net spend of £69m - again, the selling for assets ridiculous Mike Ashley has invested nearly five times as much
04 - 01. Top four obviously!

(http://talksport.com/football/premier-league-clubs-ranked-net-spend-last-five-summer-transfer-windows-150903165355)

When you see the figures like this it does make me wonder how there can be any blame at managers feet with such a lack of investment year on year. In fact you could argue even the likes of McLeish and Lambert did well considering the budget. It really makes my blood boil that the press, especially the local press, aren't highlighting this more. It's DISGUSTING.

Furthermore, where the hell is the money?! How can Stoke, Swansea and West Brom in particular be bringing in more money than we are?! Then there would be the wages argument, but I can't find that anywhere, obviously it was big but now it must be very very low. But surely no bigger than the above teams. Or people may argue we are still paying for over spending prior to this time - well that would mean by now we should be matching the above teams, and yet we still can't. West Brom still spent £27m this season.

And it's not revisionism, it's not rose tinted glasses, but Ellis would have been slaughtered week on week for this lack of investment. He at least had the balls to show up! Why are me more accepting of it because it's Lerner?

Where are the fans protests? Why isn't there more of a fuss? Why are we accepting this? Have we been beaten down so much that we just don't have any fight left? At the very least, forgetting the wish to be a top six/four club, we should be competing with the likes of Everton, Sunderland etc.

I know this will fall on deaf ears, I just get annoyed that there are so few people who care any more.

 

I think you make good points however the current situation although very much of Lerner's own doing is also down to massive mismanagement within the footballing side of things. Lerner whether people like it or not has already spent a fortune since he arrived and I believe under the pretences that those spending it knew what they were doing. The club was always going to have to become self sustainable in the long term and we are doing now what should have been done when O'Neil arrived imo- Bring in high quality youth with long term resale value. We didn't and ultimately paid the price with the cutbacks over the last few years after paying high wages for ageing footballers. 

It needed to happen though and now with the investment from the sale of tekkers and the delph we are addressing the quality of the squad as a whole. Personally I don't buy into the crap that you have to spend fortunes to remain competitive or build. Or that we need to keep spending thee same net £'s as everyone else. No doubt you need funds however getting in the right manager and coaching staff is just as important. 

Most people have been unhappy and like you last season I had enough however Lambert has now gone, Lerner is staying(at least for now), and we as a club, although not spending the amounts as some, have invested very well in the transfer market this summer. We have rid ourselves of the majority of players enjoying a free ride and have players with ambition and points to prove. All the ingredients to move forward as a club again. A cracking summer imo.

We have a clean slate to now work with including the fans. New journey's to travel and heroes to build along the way. After the bullshit of the last few years I think we all need a break. A break from negativity! The crowds need to be brought back Villa Park with entertaining football and we need to encourage our team and not cry about net spend. 

I also think we are competing with Everton and Sunderland this year and think we will finish above both. 

 

.................................Hats off to that post.....one of the best I have had the privilege to read on here.

Edited September 5, 2015 by TRO

[Stevo985]

I hate this man so much.

Talksport (yes I know!) have done some research in to net spend (it's not just us who are interested in it!) and looked at the 13 teams who have remained in the league over the last five years. It makes for some very depressing, if not surprising, reading:

13. Tottenham with net spend of £2.5m - helped by Bale's £65m sale no doubt!
12. Aston Villa with net spend of £15.4m - so £3m a season as has been a figure banded around here a lot
11. Stoke City with a net spend of £26.1m - over 50% more than us already
10. Everton with a net spend of £29.1m - yes, tight-fisted Everton have spent nearly double our amount.
09. Swansea with a net spend of £31.8m
08. West Brom with a net spend of £42m - our local rivals have spent THREE times as much as we have
07. Sunderland with a net spend of £43.7m - commonly referred in the press and under invested.
06. Arsenal with a net spend of £47.1m
05. Newcastle with a net spend of £69m - again, the selling for assets ridiculous Mike Ashley has invested nearly five times as much
04 - 01. Top four obviously!

(http://talksport.com/football/premier-league-clubs-ranked-net-spend-last-five-summer-transfer-windows-150903165355)

When you see the figures like this it does make me wonder how there can be any blame at managers feet with such a lack of investment year on year. In fact you could argue even the likes of McLeish and Lambert did well considering the budget. It really makes my blood boil that the press, especially the local press, aren't highlighting this more. It's DISGUSTING.

Furthermore, where the hell is the money?! How can Stoke, Swansea and West Brom in particular be bringing in more money than we are?! Then there would be the wages argument, but I can't find that anywhere, obviously it was big but now it must be very very low. But surely no bigger than the above teams. Or people may argue we are still paying for over spending prior to this time - well that would mean by now we should be matching the above teams, and yet we still can't. West Brom still spent £27m this season.

And it's not revisionism, it's not rose tinted glasses, but Ellis would have been slaughtered week on week for this lack of investment. He at least had the balls to show up! Why are me more accepting of it because it's Lerner?

Where are the fans protests? Why isn't there more of a fuss? Why are we accepting this? Have we been beaten down so much that we just don't have any fight left? At the very least, forgetting the wish to be a top six/four club, we should be competing with the likes of Everton, Sunderland etc.

I know this will fall on deaf ears, I just get annoyed that there are so few people who care any more.

What exactly would we be protesting for?

Lerner out? He wants out. He's had us for sale for years now. He'd be joining in the protest if that's what it was.

More investment? Lerner isn't going to plough loads of money into a club that he wants to sell. It just isn't going to happen. He's going to give us enough to stay in the league. Until he leaves, there won't be shed loads of money being ploughed in, so see above.

Run the club better? For all Lerner's faults, it seems he's finally realised he can't run Aston Villa himself, hence the wholesale changes in the club. He's taken a step back now and it looks like he's going to be involved very little in the day to day running of Aston Villa. So if that's the change we want, it's already happened.

 

So, again, what exactly would be the end goal of this protest?
I'm all for fans' right to protest. I'd join in if I agreed with it. I just don't see what the aim of a protest would be.

it sounds more like "I don't think we're very good... PROTEST!"

[Richard]

Don't think we're going to drop two leagues that quickly.

They've just been taken over by a very wealthy individual

[Dodgyknees]

Worth something like 500m? the Candy Crush guy? Not mega rich.

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

I wonder what he eats for breakfast.

[AvfcTheObsession]

I hate this man so much.

Talksport (yes I know!) have done some research in to net spend (it's not just us who are interested in it!) and looked at the 13 teams who have remained in the league over the last five years. It makes for some very depressing, if not surprising, reading:

13. Tottenham with net spend of £2.5m - helped by Bale's £65m sale no doubt!
12. Aston Villa with net spend of £15.4m - so £3m a season as has been a figure banded around here a lot
11. Stoke City with a net spend of £26.1m - over 50% more than us already
10. Everton with a net spend of £29.1m - yes, tight-fisted Everton have spent nearly double our amount.
09. Swansea with a net spend of £31.8m
08. West Brom with a net spend of £42m - our local rivals have spent THREE times as much as we have
07. Sunderland with a net spend of £43.7m - commonly referred in the press and under invested.
06. Arsenal with a net spend of £47.1m
05. Newcastle with a net spend of £69m - again, the selling for assets ridiculous Mike Ashley has invested nearly five times as much
04 - 01. Top four obviously!

(http://talksport.com/football/premier-league-clubs-ranked-net-spend-last-five-summer-transfer-windows-150903165355)

When you see the figures like this it does make me wonder how there can be any blame at managers feet with such a lack of investment year on year. In fact you could argue even the likes of McLeish and Lambert did well considering the budget. It really makes my blood boil that the press, especially the local press, aren't highlighting this more. It's DISGUSTING.

Furthermore, where the hell is the money?! How can Stoke, Swansea and West Brom in particular be bringing in more money than we are?! Then there would be the wages argument, but I can't find that anywhere, obviously it was big but now it must be very very low. But surely no bigger than the above teams. Or people may argue we are still paying for over spending prior to this time - well that would mean by now we should be matching the above teams, and yet we still can't. West Brom still spent £27m this season.

And it's not revisionism, it's not rose tinted glasses, but Ellis would have been slaughtered week on week for this lack of investment. He at least had the balls to show up! Why are me more accepting of it because it's Lerner?

Where are the fans protests? Why isn't there more of a fuss? Why are we accepting this? Have we been beaten down so much that we just don't have any fight left? At the very least, forgetting the wish to be a top six/four club, we should be competing with the likes of Everton, Sunderland etc.

I know this will fall on deaf ears, I just get annoyed that there are so few people who care any more.

 

I think you make good points however the current situation although very much of Lerner's own doing is also down to massive mismanagement within the footballing side of things. Lerner whether people like it or not has already spent a fortune since he arrived and I believe under the pretences that those spending it knew what they were doing. The club was always going to have to become self sustainable in the long term and we are doing now what should have been done when O'Neil arrived imo- Bring in high quality youth with long term resale value. We didn't and ultimately paid the price with the cutbacks over the last few years after paying high wages for ageing footballers. 

It needed to happen though and now with the investment from the sale of tekkers and the delph we are addressing the quality of the squad as a whole. Personally I don't buy into the crap that you have to spend fortunes to remain competitive or build. Or that we need to keep spending thee same net £'s as everyone else. No doubt you need funds however getting in the right manager and coaching staff is just as important. 

Most people have been unhappy and like you last season I had enough however Lambert has now gone, Lerner is staying(at least for now), and we as a club, although not spending the amounts as some, have invested very well in the transfer market this summer. We have rid ourselves of the majority of players enjoying a free ride and have players with ambition and points to prove. All the ingredients to move forward as a club again. A cracking summer imo.

We have a clean slate to now work with including the fans. New journey's to travel and heroes to build along the way. After the bullshit of the last few years I think we all need a break. A break from negativity! The crowds need to be brought back Villa Park with entertaining football and we need to encourage our team and not cry about net spend. 

I also think we are competing with Everton and Sunderland this year and think we will finish above both. 

I'd be willing to bet a lot of money we don't finish above Everton, big gulf in class between us and them!

[PongRiddims]

He may not have put much money in the club but we're in a much place under Lerner as a business than we would have been under Deadly.

[villakram]

So both Randy and Levy are playing financial shenanigans

Randy: Bleeding the club dry to pay off his debts... something worse than a relatively empty space in a region containing an overdensity of trees!

Levy: Hmmm, surprised by this one (Bale does bias it)... they are going doing a new stadium thing so maybe they're saving/leveraging up for that

[villa89]

I'd be willing to bet a lot of money we don't finish above Everton, big gulf in class between us and them!

There really isn't big gulf in class between Everton and us. The only difference is that they have a decent striker and we don't. In midfield and defence they are no better than us.

[villa89]

 

Worth something like 500m? the Candy Crush guy? Not mega rich.

£500m is peanuts these days. The money will be in getting a championship team on the cheap and getting them promoted. Then you can keep the tv money for one season and get your parachute payments. The gap between championship and premier league will soon be enormous.

[lexicon]

He may not have put much money in the club but we're in a much place under Lerner as a business than we would have been under Deadly.

This is the cut and shut of it.

All I really care about is where we are and where we could go in the future. We've bought well this window, got an exciting team together - not everyone we wanted but then how often does that happen to any team?

I find all this hatred and bile for Lerner, funny and pathetic in equal measures, truth being told. 

[The Fun Factory]

I'd be willing to bet a lot of money we don't finish above Everton, big gulf in class between us and them!

There really isn't big gulf in class between Everton and us. The only difference is that they have a decent striker and we don't. In midfield and defence they are no better than us.

What is frustrating is that Everton are the second club in a smaller city than Villa with a ancient stadium, yet for the last 5 years have consistently finished above us. Lerner looked at Everton but quite rightly saw more opportunities at Villa. 

[briny_ear]

I feel no hatred or bile for Lerner. I just want him out and replaced by an owner more capable of funding the club in a more sustainable way.

[Brumstopdogs]

I hate this man so much.

Talksport (yes I know!) have done some research in to net spend (it's not just us who are interested in it!) and looked at the 13 teams who have remained in the league over the last five years. It makes for some very depressing, if not surprising, reading:

13. Tottenham with net spend of £2.5m - helped by Bale's £65m sale no doubt!
12. Aston Villa with net spend of £15.4m - so £3m a season as has been a figure banded around here a lot
11. Stoke City with a net spend of £26.1m - over 50% more than us already
10. Everton with a net spend of £29.1m - yes, tight-fisted Everton have spent nearly double our amount.
09. Swansea with a net spend of £31.8m
08. West Brom with a net spend of £42m - our local rivals have spent THREE times as much as we have
07. Sunderland with a net spend of £43.7m - commonly referred in the press and under invested.
06. Arsenal with a net spend of £47.1m
05. Newcastle with a net spend of £69m - again, the selling for assets ridiculous Mike Ashley has invested nearly five times as much
04 - 01. Top four obviously!

(http://talksport.com/football/premier-league-clubs-ranked-net-spend-last-five-summer-transfer-windows-150903165355)

When you see the figures like this it does make me wonder how there can be any blame at managers feet with such a lack of investment year on year. In fact you could argue even the likes of McLeish and Lambert did well considering the budget. It really makes my blood boil that the press, especially the local press, aren't highlighting this more. It's DISGUSTING.

Furthermore, where the hell is the money?! How can Stoke, Swansea and West Brom in particular be bringing in more money than we are?! Then there would be the wages argument, but I can't find that anywhere, obviously it was big but now it must be very very low. But surely no bigger than the above teams. Or people may argue we are still paying for over spending prior to this time - well that would mean by now we should be matching the above teams, and yet we still can't. West Brom still spent £27m this season.

And it's not revisionism, it's not rose tinted glasses, but Ellis would have been slaughtered week on week for this lack of investment. He at least had the balls to show up! Why are me more accepting of it because it's Lerner?

Where are the fans protests? Why isn't there more of a fuss? Why are we accepting this? Have we been beaten down so much that we just don't have any fight left? At the very least, forgetting the wish to be a top six/four club, we should be competing with the likes of Everton, Sunderland etc.

I know this will fall on deaf ears, I just get annoyed that there are so few people who care any more.

The key thing here is that this is not showing the complete picture - what it is showing is 5 summer transfer windows only. As an example we paid £18m for Bent in January during the last 5 years and this would't be included just because it was in January!

As for Lambert he spent close to £50m net in his 3 seasons here. The problem IMO was more him being a poor manager rather than what he had to spend.

In terms of Lerner clearly he needed to change the financial status of the club even more so with the club up the sale.

Looking across the last 5 years (rather than just summer transfer windows) I note we have a higher net spend than Spurs, Everton, Swansea and Southampton but smaller than some clubs you would expect us to spend more than. That tells me you don't necessarily need to spend more but spend smarter and sell smarter.

UTV.

 

[TrentVilla]

He may not have put much money in the club but we're in a much place under Lerner as a business than we would have been under Deadly.

This is the cut and shut of it.

All I really care about is where we are and where we could go in the future. We've bought well this window, got an exciting team together - not everyone we wanted but then how often does that happen to any team?

I find all this hatred and bile for Lerner, funny and pathetic in equal measures, truth being told. 

odd I don't really see any evidence of this "hatred and bile" towards him. I see plenty of criticism of him and people eager for him to go but those really aren't the same things

I'm one of his biggest and most long standing critics but I don't hate the guy or direct abuse at him but I can't wait for the day he sells either.

[lexicon]

On this very page - 'I hate this man so much'.

[AshVilla]

I wonder what he eats for breakfast.

Cereals with water instead of milk

Milk too expensive

[Morley_crosses_to_Withe]

So both Randy and Levy are playing financial shenanigans

Randy: Bleeding the club dry to pay off his debts... something worse than a relatively empty space in a region containing an overdensity of trees!

 

You wot? 

[KHV]

 

Randy: Bleeding the club dry to pay off his debts.

 What? He really isn't, if he was doing that the Benteke and Delph money would not have been reinvested. Lerner has made some mistakes during his tenure but bleeding the club dry to pay off his debts is one thing he is not guilty of