bobzy Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Do you think Lerner is putting in money from his own pocket this summer? Overall? Yes, probably. I guess we'll find out when the accounts are released next year, but i'd be very surprised if Lerner had to or chose to put some of his personal wealth into the club this summer. I would be as well - but his decision not to would not make him a "bad" owner IMO. He bought the club as a business - it should be able to sustain itself. Yes I haven't got an issue with it, I'm not saying he should be spending money out of his own pockets this summer. I just disagree that allowing the club to reinvest what it generates is worthy of praise. Credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted August 13, 2015 Moderator Share Posted August 13, 2015 He now has AVFC running as a self sustaining business, which was the exact same position we were in when he took over. Go Randy!!! Let's build a statue. I think a lot of people have a very short memory to think that the club has not improved under Lerner. Villa was all about one person before Lerner arrived - everything began and ended with Ellis. If a hypothetical situation arose where there were two mutually exclusive options of (a) something being good for the club and fans or ( something being good for Ellis - then there would only be one outcome. When Lerner arrived he made huge efforts to understand what the fans wanted and tried to act on those that he could. Admittedly he has made some howlers along the way but we now have people advising him who seem to know how to run a club. Off the pitch we are beginning to resemble a proper football club - something that would never have happened under Ellis. Just a shame that Lerner didn't get this lot in when he started as we could have avoided a lot of the shit that has happened along the way. That is not to say that I want him to stay or that the last few seasons of on the pitch performances have been acceptable but if he left tomorrow then the new owners would be taking on a better club than the one that Lerner purchased. All in my humble opinion obviously!!!! Only the post you are responding too doesn't say we haven't improved since Ellis, it's says we are back in the same position and it's correct we are. Hopefully we might not be come the end of the season. Nobody in their right mind would argue we were better off/better run under Ellis or that he was a better owner. But the problem is that relative to all the other teams in the league we are no better now than we were when Lerner arrived in fact it could argued the gap between us and the top 7 or 8 has only increased. That isn't entirely Lerner's fault, far from it but that is the reality and so it's hardly surprising people are reluctant to heap praise on him. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Perhaps Lerner could only appoint the managers he did because they were the only ones willing to work under the restrictions he placed upon them - certainly that's why MON left the club in the hurry he did. When I look at the money Houllier and to some extent Mcleish were able to spend, I find it hard that these were the only options that could have come to the club. I agree with some other points you made, I think he did care about the club and obviously came with the right intentions but I think that has faded now. He's tried to sell the club for 2 years and has openly said he will have nothing to do with the club from this point forward. I also have no issue with him being owner in name as long as the right people are left to run the club and he keeps his promise to stay away. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted August 13, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted August 13, 2015 Never mentioned statues or anything else lol. I was just being overly sarcastic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Spending money the club generates is the least we should expect from the owner, especially after how badly he's run the club. We may as well praise players for turning up to training and praise kit men for folding shirts nicely. Well it could be worse and we could have that muppett at newcastle. i wont complain Lerners backed Sherwood don't know hat people expect when we finished 17th? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 He now has AVFC running as a self sustaining business, which was the exact same position we were in when he took over. Go Randy!!! Let's build a statue. I think a lot of people have a very short memory to think that the club has not improved under Lerner. Villa was all about one person before Lerner arrived - everything began and ended with Ellis. If a hypothetical situation arose where there were two mutually exclusive options of (a) something being good for the club and fans or ( something being good for Ellis - then there would only be one outcome. When Lerner arrived he made huge efforts to understand what the fans wanted and tried to act on those that he could. Admittedly he has made some howlers along the way but we now have people advising him who seem to know how to run a club. Off the pitch we are beginning to resemble a proper football club - something that would never have happened under Ellis. Just a shame that Lerner didn't get this lot in when he started as we could have avoided a lot of the shit that has happened along the way. That is not to say that I want him to stay or that the last few seasons of on the pitch performances have been acceptable but if he left tomorrow then the new owners would be taking on a better club than the one that Lerner purchased. All in my humble opinion obviously!!!! Only the post you are responding too doesn't say we haven't improved since Ellis, it's says we are back in the same position and it's correct we are. Hopefully we might not be come the end of the season. Nobody in their right mind would argue we were better off/better run under Ellis or that he was a better owner. But the problem is that relative to all the other teams in the league we are no better now than we were when Lerner arrived in fact it could argued the gap between us and the top 7 or 8 has only increased. That isn't entirely Lerner's fault, far from it but that is the reality and so it's hardly surprising people are reluctant to heap praise on him. I think this goes over looked sometimes. The final year under Ellis was horrendous, I think it's fair to say our last 4 have been on a par, if not worse than them. And as you say, we've allowed other teams to over take us on and off the pitch, we finally look to be addressing this but it shouldn't have reached the level it did before this was looked at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 I think this goes over looked sometimes. The final year under Ellis was horrendous, I think it's fair to say our last 4 have been on a par, if not worse than them. And as you say, we've allowed other teams to over take us on and off the pitch, we finally look to be addressing this but it shouldn't have reached the level it did before this was looked at. I'd agree with this and blame Lerner for the majority of the mess we were in. However, he now seems to be sorting it all out. Right people in the right places et al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Do you think Lerner is putting in money from his own pocket this summer? Overall? Yes, probably. I guess we'll find out when the accounts are released next year, but i'd be very surprised if Lerner had to or chose to put some of his personal wealth into the club this summer. I would be as well - but his decision not to would not make him a "bad" owner IMO. He bought the club as a business - it should be able to sustain itself. Yes I haven't got an issue with it, I'm not saying he should be spending money out of his own pockets this summer. I just disagree that allowing the club to reinvest what it generates is worthy of praise. Credit. I don't think it's worthy of anything. Like I said previously we might as well give players credit for turning up to training if this is the case. It's what should be done, the bare minimum that should have happened this summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 To be fair he has a point, as much as Lerner has annoyed me over the last few years, he could have refused to reinvest the money back and then we could ahve been relegated. Cant fault Lerner for not backing Sherwood (if it is Lerner and we are not backed by new owners in secret) This is a new low in terms of the height of the bar for Lerner. He has no choice but to reinvest the money recouped from the player sales. If he didn't reinvest it we would be relegated, the income of the club would plummet as would the value of his asset. He can't sell us as it is let alone after a relegation. Giving Lerner credit for reinvesting the money from player sales is very generous indeed. He deserves credit for Fox but that is about it. He could have quite easily given 10-20m if he wanted to, but he hasnt he has backed Sherwood Sherwood has no reason to say the things he did about Lerner today. Tim does not strike me as someone that talks bull shite. When Lerner messes up I am the quickest to moan about it but if I feel he has backed the manager likeIy do this summer I will say abit of praise. I would also like to add I am disputing your point about Fox as I do believe he has been heavily involved as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 To be fair he has a point, as much as Lerner has annoyed me over the last few years, he could have refused to reinvest the money back and then we could ahve been relegated. Cant fault Lerner for not backing Sherwood (if it is Lerner and we are not backed by new owners in secret) This is a new low in terms of the height of the bar for Lerner. He has no choice but to reinvest the money recouped from the player sales. If he didn't reinvest it we would be relegated, the income of the club would plummet as would the value of his asset. He can't sell us as it is let alone after a relegation. Giving Lerner credit for reinvesting the money from player sales is very generous indeed. He deserves credit for Fox but that is about it. He could have quite easily given 10-20m if he wanted to, but he hasnt he has backed Sherwood Sherwood has no reason to say the things he did about Lerner today. Tim does not strike me as someone that talks bull shite. When Lerner messes up I am the quickest to moan about it but if I feel he has backed the manager likeIy do this summer I will say abit of praise. I would also like to add I am disputing your point about Fox as I do believe he has been heavily involved as well He could, but then he'd be taking a huge gamble with a valuable asset of his. After the last few years and losing 4 fairly important players, he may have well flushed £150 million down the toilet if he'd only given the manager 10-20 million to spend this summer. No one will argue that Sherwood has not been backed this summer. The disagreement is that it's not something that the owner deserves praise for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 He now has AVFC running as a self sustaining business, which was the exact same position we were in when he took over. Go Randy!!! Let's build a statue. I think a lot of people have a very short memory to think that the club has not improved under Lerner. Villa was all about one person before Lerner arrived - everything began and ended with Ellis. If a hypothetical situation arose where there were two mutually exclusive options of (a) something being good for the club and fans or ( something being good for Ellis - then there would only be one outcome. When Lerner arrived he made huge efforts to understand what the fans wanted and tried to act on those that he could. Admittedly he has made some howlers along the way but we now have people advising him who seem to know how to run a club. Off the pitch we are beginning to resemble a proper football club - something that would never have happened under Ellis. Just a shame that Lerner didn't get this lot in when he started as we could have avoided a lot of the shit that has happened along the way. That is not to say that I want him to stay or that the last few seasons of on the pitch performances have been acceptable but if he left tomorrow then the new owners would be taking on a better club than the one that Lerner purchased. All in my humble opinion obviously!!!! Only the post you are responding too doesn't say we haven't improved since Ellis, it's says we are back in the same position and it's correct we are. Hopefully we might not be come the end of the season. Nobody in their right mind would argue we were better off/better run under Ellis or that he was a better owner. But the problem is that relative to all the other teams in the league we are no better now than we were when Lerner arrived in fact it could argued the gap between us and the top 7 or 8 has only increased. That isn't entirely Lerner's fault, far from it but that is the reality and so it's hardly surprising people are reluctant to heap praise on him. Kind of agree but the biggest reason that the gap has increased is because of the extra money in the Champion's League and then the big boys introducing FFP to stop anyone else from being able to compete on a level playing field. It is very difficult to come up with any plan to close the gap on the top 4 or 5 when they are practically guaranteed to earn £50 million more each season and have implemented a scam that prevents other clubs from finding other ways of "generating" that type of income. I guess that I just struggle to get over the fact that Ellis took "the best team in Europe" and dismantled it entirely because he hadn't created it. Maybe I just need to let it go now....after all it has been over 30 years..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted August 13, 2015 Moderator Share Posted August 13, 2015 To be fair he has a point, as much as Lerner has annoyed me over the last few years, he could have refused to reinvest the money back and then we could ahve been relegated. Cant fault Lerner for not backing Sherwood (if it is Lerner and we are not backed by new owners in secret) This is a new low in terms of the height of the bar for Lerner. He has no choice but to reinvest the money recouped from the player sales. If he didn't reinvest it we would be relegated, the income of the club would plummet as would the value of his asset. He can't sell us as it is let alone after a relegation. Giving Lerner credit for reinvesting the money from player sales is very generous indeed. He deserves credit for Fox but that is about it. He could have quite easily given 10-20m if he wanted to, but he hasnt he has backed Sherwood Sherwood has no reason to say the things he did about Lerner today. Tim does not strike me as someone that talks bull shite. When Lerner messes up I am the quickest to moan about it but if I feel he has backed the manager likeIy do this summer I will say abit of praise. I would also like to add I am disputing your point about Fox as I do believe he has been heavily involved as well Yes he could and we would have gone down. As for Fox I think you need to read what I posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 If Lerner had matched the input investment from his own pocket than that of the self raised fundings then i would give him credit. The bloke would struggle to give his assets away let alone sell them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 To be fair he has a point, as much as Lerner has annoyed me over the last few years, he could have refused to reinvest the money back and then we could ahve been relegated. Cant fault Lerner for not backing Sherwood (if it is Lerner and we are not backed by new owners in secret) This is a new low in terms of the height of the bar for Lerner. He has no choice but to reinvest the money recouped from the player sales. If he didn't reinvest it we would be relegated, the income of the club would plummet as would the value of his asset. He can't sell us as it is let alone after a relegation. Giving Lerner credit for reinvesting the money from player sales is very generous indeed. He deserves credit for Fox but that is about it. He could have quite easily given 10-20m if he wanted to, but he hasnt he has backed Sherwood Sherwood has no reason to say the things he did about Lerner today. Tim does not strike me as someone that talks bull shite. When Lerner messes up I am the quickest to moan about it but if I feel he has backed the manager likeIy do this summer I will say abit of praise. I would also like to add I am disputing your point about Fox as I do believe he has been heavily involved as well Yes he could and we would have gone down. As for Fox I think you need to read what I posted. Didnt stop him last season though did it? Yes I read what you wrote, you said he deserves credit for fox and i agreed with it as im sure he has been involved heavily behind the scenes so not sure why that comment was inserted by yourself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 He now has AVFC running as a self sustaining business, which was the exact same position we were in when he took over. Go Randy!!! Let's build a statue. I think a lot of people have a very short memory to think that the club has not improved under Lerner. Villa was all about one person before Lerner arrived - everything began and ended with Ellis. If a hypothetical situation arose where there were two mutually exclusive options of (a) something being good for the club and fans or ( something being good for Ellis - then there would only be one outcome. When Lerner arrived he made huge efforts to understand what the fans wanted and tried to act on those that he could. Admittedly he has made some howlers along the way but we now have people advising him who seem to know how to run a club. Off the pitch we are beginning to resemble a proper football club - something that would never have happened under Ellis. Just a shame that Lerner didn't get this lot in when he started as we could have avoided a lot of the shit that has happened along the way. That is not to say that I want him to stay or that the last few seasons of on the pitch performances have been acceptable but if he left tomorrow then the new owners would be taking on a better club than the one that Lerner purchased. All in my humble opinion obviously!!!! I very much agree. Randy for his faults, and there are plenty, is not a **** narcissist like that... person. Screw Doug Ellis. I am often astonished at the revisionism. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyh Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 If we hadn't been cut to the bone with a squad full of shite, we wouldn't have needed the complete overhaul we are going through now. And, the vast majority of this 'splurge' is self financing anyway. Lerner is merely protecting his investment by allowing the spend of what is being self generated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted August 13, 2015 Moderator Share Posted August 13, 2015 Dem - We didn't sell our two best players last summer so very different situation. As for Fox, You wrote "I am disputing your point about Fox" as you think he has been heavily involved as well. Only that isn't disputing my point about Fox if you read what I posted. My only comment on Fox was giving Lerner credit for bringing him in. Oh did you mean Lerner has been heavily involved? If so, no I very much doubt that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Oops my mistake I meant to say not disputing your point - can see that now With regards to the other point yes we didnt but he really could have been deluded and not backed sherwood. he could have signed numerous cheaper players or said no sorry you cant spend 10m on amavi for example in addition clark, gabby and baker new deals (although i dont agree with the latter) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 (edited) I said if before and I'll say it again. I don't think there is a chance Sherwood would have worked under the same constraints as Lambert. He seems to care about his career and reputation. Plus by the way he reacted after the FA Cup final it's unlikely he would have stayed if had no funds to make changes. Edited August 13, 2015 by Vive_La_Villa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted August 13, 2015 Moderator Share Posted August 13, 2015 So you are praising him for not being deluded? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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