The Randy Lerner thread

[darrenm]

 

net spend isn't the only gauge of commitment but when you generally get what you pay for it's a pretty good one.

 

We owe Lerner a lot of money and it's only fair that he has it back. The problem is it's his **** up which led to us overspending and needing the loans in the first place.

 

Therefore he should really man up to his mistakes where he gambled and lost the money, and not expect the club to bail him out.

 

Is there any evidence that he's taking any money out?

 

I was under the impression that we were back in the black now? Or if not then we will massively be by the time the next accounts come out.

 

The profit is being used to pay back loans to Lerner as far as I'm aware. If not then I'm mistaken and we must be just banking all of the profit ready for a rainy day.

[ozvillafan]

Can't sell the club at 150 mill? Start paying off the debt.

 

You can then sell for 150mill - repaid debt. That's going to be more attractive, no?

[Morley_crosses_to_Withe]

He converted the loans to equity. This happened a while back (around last March/April 2014) in preparation for the club to go on the market in May 14.

Edit: if people can be arsed to find it, I'm pretty sure that someone found something to show that conversion and posted it in this thread.

Edited September 1, 2015 by Morley_crosses_to_Withe

[darrenm]

He converted the loans to equity. This happened a while back (around last March/April 2014) in preparation for the club to go on the market in May 14.

Edit: if people can be arsed to find it, I'm pretty sure that someone found something to show that conversion and posted it in this thread.

Some of the loans to equity. As far as I'm aware we still owe him a fair bit.

[Morley_crosses_to_Withe]

Whatever didn't get converted still remain as shareholder loans. It is junior debt and repayments are generally (and have been) deferred. We aren't paying him back on these.

[avfc1982]

How does the club owe money to Lerner when he owns the club lock stock and barrel?

[dont_do_it_doug.]

How does the club owe money to Lerner when he owns the club lock stock and barrel?

 

We don't and nether has Randy Lerner ever made a single penny from this football club. That's an absurd notion. 

 

Look, he's a below par owner and worse than that he was a weak chairman. But some of the allegations in this thread simply aren't backed up by evidence.

[Jareth]

If Randy does indeed spend 5-10 mill net this window and we stay up, the club will be in some serious profit come next season's TV money and we can really finesse the squad.

[Richard]

profitable club funding squad enhancement through player trading

[dont_do_it_doug.]

profitable club funding squad enhancement through player trading

 

Sounds like Arsenal. 

[Richard]

 

profitable club funding squad enhancement through player trading

 

Sounds like Arsenal. 

 

trouble is the starting points and attractiveness are a little different ,  arsenal dont have to promise the earth to whore themselves in terms of contract clauses and get players to sign for them either but I'm moving into area's to be covered by a "sum up the transfer window thread"

[Morley_crosses_to_Withe]

profitable club funding squad enhancement through player trading

Sounds like Arsenal.

Or Southampton. Last season's posters boys for how a club should be run.

Edited September 1, 2015 by Morley_crosses_to_Withe

[Neil]

How does the club owe money to Lerner when he owns the club lock stock and barrel?

 

As an owner of a company you always want to protect your personal assets, so when your company needs a capital stimulus you don't just give it money from your personal wealth - or your other companies.  Instead you loan it.

When you loan the money, then it's still your personal money until the company can afford to pay it back taking interest at the same time.  Or writing it off which you can offset the losses against other taxes / etc.

What you have to remember that when you own a company, the money in the company is not yours...it's your companies.  If you want to draw down on that money, there is taxes to pay whatever way you get it out.  If you have a lot of personal wealth or other money in another company and you want to invest it then you'd loan it so when you do want that money back you don't get stung double bubble.

It's true that randy canned off some of the loans he has made to AVFC but there is still money owed to him I believe.  And if our books are in the black, with no prospect of sale on the horizon then I wouldn't be surprised to see repayments of interested and/or loan repayments from AVFC back to Lerner or whatever company he used to loan AVFC the money....and to be perfectly honest on that, rightly so.

My only qualm is hurting our club in the process, which is essentially his investment...it's short sighted to allow us to slip any further at the expense of making short term games of repaying yourself loans.

[OutByEaster?]

 

 

profitable club funding squad enhancement through player trading

Sounds like Arsenal.

Or Southampton. Last season's posters boys for how a club should be run.

 

Or Spurs.

[jackbauer24]

I hate this man so much.

Talksport (yes I know!) have done some research in to net spend (it's not just us who are interested in it!) and looked at the 13 teams who have remained in the league over the last five years. It makes for some very depressing, if not surprising, reading:

13. Tottenham with net spend of £2.5m - helped by Bale's £65m sale no doubt!
12. Aston Villa with net spend of £15.4m - so £3m a season as has been a figure banded around here a lot
11. Stoke City with a net spend of £26.1m - over 50% more than us already
10. Everton with a net spend of £29.1m - yes, tight-fisted Everton have spent nearly double our amount.
09. Swansea with a net spend of £31.8m
08. West Brom with a net spend of £42m - our local rivals have spent THREE times as much as we have
07. Sunderland with a net spend of £43.7m - commonly referred in the press and under invested.
06. Arsenal with a net spend of £47.1m
05. Newcastle with a net spend of £69m - again, the selling for assets ridiculous Mike Ashley has invested nearly five times as much
04 - 01. Top four obviously!

(http://talksport.com/football/premier-league-clubs-ranked-net-spend-last-five-summer-transfer-windows-150903165355)

When you see the figures like this it does make me wonder how there can be any blame at managers feet with such a lack of investment year on year. In fact you could argue even the likes of McLeish and Lambert did well considering the budget. It really makes my blood boil that the press, especially the local press, aren't highlighting this more. It's DISGUSTING.

Furthermore, where the hell is the money?! How can Stoke, Swansea and West Brom in particular be bringing in more money than we are?! Then there would be the wages argument, but I can't find that anywhere, obviously it was big but now it must be very very low. But surely no bigger than the above teams. Or people may argue we are still paying for over spending prior to this time - well that would mean by now we should be matching the above teams, and yet we still can't. West Brom still spent £27m this season.

And it's not revisionism, it's not rose tinted glasses, but Ellis would have been slaughtered week on week for this lack of investment. He at least had the balls to show up! Why are me more accepting of it because it's Lerner?

Where are the fans protests? Why isn't there more of a fuss? Why are we accepting this? Have we been beaten down so much that we just don't have any fight left? At the very least, forgetting the wish to be a top six/four club, we should be competing with the likes of Everton, Sunderland etc.

I know this will fall on deaf ears, I just get annoyed that there are so few people who care any more.

[KHV]

I hate this man so much.

Talksport (yes I know!) have done some research in to net spend (it's not just us who are interested in it!) and looked at the 13 teams who have remained in the league over the last five years. It makes for some very depressing, if not surprising, reading:

13. Tottenham with net spend of £2.5m - helped by Bale's £65m sale no doubt!
12. Aston Villa with net spend of £15.4m - so £3m a season as has been a figure banded around here a lot
11. Stoke City with a net spend of £26.1m - over 50% more than us already
10. Everton with a net spend of £29.1m - yes, tight-fisted Everton have spent nearly double our amount.
09. Swansea with a net spend of £31.8m
08. West Brom with a net spend of £42m - our local rivals have spent THREE times as much as we have
07. Sunderland with a net spend of £43.7m - commonly referred in the press and under invested.
06. Arsenal with a net spend of £47.1m
05. Newcastle with a net spend of £69m - again, the selling for assets ridiculous Mike Ashley has invested nearly five times as much
04 - 01. Top four obviously!

(http://talksport.com/football/premier-league-clubs-ranked-net-spend-last-five-summer-transfer-windows-150903165355)

When you see the figures like this it does make me wonder how there can be any blame at managers feet with such a lack of investment year on year. In fact you could argue even the likes of McLeish and Lambert did well considering the budget. It really makes my blood boil that the press, especially the local press, aren't highlighting this more. It's DISGUSTING.

Furthermore, where the hell is the money?! How can Stoke, Swansea and West Brom in particular be bringing in more money than we are?! Then there would be the wages argument, but I can't find that anywhere, obviously it was big but now it must be very very low. But surely no bigger than the above teams. Or people may argue we are still paying for over spending prior to this time - well that would mean by now we should be matching the above teams, and yet we still can't. West Brom still spent £27m this season.

And it's not revisionism, it's not rose tinted glasses, but Ellis would have been slaughtered week on week for this lack of investment. He at least had the balls to show up! Why are me more accepting of it because it's Lerner?

Where are the fans protests? Why isn't there more of a fuss? Why are we accepting this? Have we been beaten down so much that we just don't have any fight left? At the very least, forgetting the wish to be a top six/four club, we should be competing with the likes of Everton, Sunderland etc.

I know this will fall on deaf ears, I just get annoyed that there are so few people who care any more.

The last 5 summers has been quite bleak, would be interested to see what our net spend was for the 5 summers before these

[villa89]

It's clear Lerner isn't putting any money into the club. He's not going to speculate to accumulate and given his history of investment in the club and the fact that he can't sell it even at a low price I can't say I blame him.

The club needs to be managed well and be very clever in the transfer market. There's a lot of TV money on the way and if we can stablise over the next 2 seasons we can be a comfortable midtable team every year. Unless we get a Shiekh owner that's all we can hope to achieve, just like Everton, Southampton, Swansea, Palace, Newcastle etc.

The positive is that this summer it seems as though we are now starting to make the right moves so hopefully the future is good.

[Richard]

Expect Derby to be going past us in a couple of years as well

[sexbelowsound]

Don't think we're going to drop two leagues that quickly.

[useless]

What happened to the new Chairman, And the  Luis Campos story in L'Équipe?

Edited September 4, 2015 by useless