U.S. Politics

[Chindie]

4 minutes ago, LondonLax said:

The police officers themselves are also black so that might temper some of the anger perhaps?

I believe there's a feeling that the issue isn't solely 'white on black' it's 'blue on black'.

[maqroll]

3 hours ago, LondonLax said:

The police officers themselves are also black so that might temper some of the anger perhaps?

I think it will depend on how bad the video is. The D.A. there says it "defies humanity", so I expect trouble, at least in Memphis. 

Police are police, and stats bear out that black cops are just as violent, and their victims are usually black. 

So there is plenty of animus there already. 

Police are lucky its January and not July.

I'm really dreading this video.

[StefanAVFC]

It’s really bad. These guys are animals. They come into the situation already angry and baying for blood. Horrific. 

[Chindie]

Those guys are going to prison. 5 guys holding and beating a guy who seemingly hasn't done much wrong. Kick him in the head on the ground, repeatedly land brutal punches to his head while 3 guys hold him up, another beats him with a baton. There's no attempt to give him aid, they just beat him senseless, cuff him then drag him across the ground to leave him slumped against a car. The bloke is crying for his mom.

They supposedly pulled him over initially for a minor offence, which they did extremely heavy handedly pulling the guy out of the car and attempting to overpower him on the ground when he wasn't being particularly threatening or uncooperative. He manages to run, which he shouldn't have done but he basically was being accosted by a number of guys. They get pepper spray on themselves, and when they catch him they basically batter him out of retribution.

There's no justification for that. They need to go to prison.

[TheAuthority]

It seems they were either:

a) On drugs - amphetamine type drugs

b) Wound themselves up beforehand and decided that someone was "just going to get it" that night

c) Poorly trained imbeciles who felt there would be no oversight so that was acceptable

d) Absolute psychopaths with total disregard for other humans

Whatever the answer it's hard to make sense of it and once again the worst humans seem to be easily able to get hired into law enforcement. You barely need a high school diploma in most states and it seems a healthy dose of psycho gets you on the fast track.

[desensitized43]

There’s no excuse for any of this. You see heavy handed police action in other countries but it’s normally when there’s a protest that turns bad or a riot or something. You don’t see someone getting pulled over for something minor and then beaten to death in any other country.

There’s clearly a racist element to it, although when you’ve got a bunch of exclusively black cops doing this to a black guy you will undoubtedly see some people (you may or may not have racist tendencies themselves) pointing to it and saying it proves it’s not about race.

It’s always been my opinion that the primary cause for this kind of violence in the US is fear driven by the number of weapons in that country. Imagine being a cop and pulling someone over for having a brake light out. In the UK it’s a fair assumption that the driver isn’t locked and loaded. In the US it’s a much more real possibility that that stop is the last the cop can make. That fear combined with their obvious racial bias and lack of training (compared to the rest of the world) means they approach even the most benign stop ready to use lethal force.

One of my vivid memories as a kid was going to Florida with my folks and some of their friends, one of whom had a brother working as a doctor in the states who drove down to see us for a few days. I remember him opening the “trunk” of his car and seeing 3 handguns in there. It only occurred to me in later life just how utterly mental it was that someone who was born in the UK, but emigrated to the US felt so unsafe that he needed 3 handguns in his car. He only has 2 hands! Why the 3rd one! I still don’t get it

[DCJonah]

There was a video a few days ago, showing the first public lashing in Afghanistan since the Taliban took control again. 

That was more humane than what those police officers did.

[UpTheVilla26]

Just seen the video. 

Horrendous. Once he is peppered sprayed and tasered, there is no way on earth 5 'police' officers can't arrest him without beating him to death. 

They will argue he was trying to 'get away' but in that situation, where they are piling in on you, I think 99% of us would have the natural reaction to try and get free from it. 

They need to rot in jail. The police, both in the UK & US needs a bloody good looking into as it seems, at the moment, a breeding ground for over inflated egos who think they are above the law & can get away with anything. 

I'd not blame anyone in Memphis wishing to protest what has happened and you can see why some will turn violent to dish out some revenge. 

A total mess all round. 

 

[StefanAVFC]

On the other side of the country, the husband of the then leader of the house was held at hammer point whilst police calmly talk to him and let him be attacked 

 

it’s 100% a race and/or class thing 

[blandy]

4 hours ago, desensitized43 said:

when you’ve got a bunch of exclusively black cops doing this to a black guy you will undoubtedly see some people (you may or may not have racist tendencies themselves) pointing to it and saying it proves it’s not about race.

In isolation that horrific incident clearly isn’t about race and I think you’re right that the other things you mention are obviously in the mix there. Every one of these incidents makes the divide worse. 

[LondonLax]

2 hours ago, StefanAVFC said:

On the other side of the country, the husband of the then leader of the house was held at hammer point whilst police calmly talk to him and let him be attacked 

 

it’s 100% a race and/or class thing 

Sorry, I’m not sure if I’m missing your point but the police seem pretty reasonable here? Trying to assess the situation rather than doing something rash themselves? 

[bannedfromHandV]

Very reminiscent of the Rodney king situation, albeit with a very obvious difference.

[Demitri_C]

Wow im usually a defender  of the police but that video is horrfic and barbaric 

These "police" are bullying scumbags and deserve to go down for a very long time.

Talk about police brutality 

[StefanAVFC]

20 minutes ago, LondonLax said:

Sorry, I’m not sure if I’m missing your point but the police seem pretty reasonable here? Trying to assess the situation rather than doing something rash themselves? 

Making the point that in the other recent case, a black man was beaten to death for nothing, whereas in this case, in a much more high profile case they allowed him to be hit in the head with a hammer before acting. 
 

Anyway I’m not sure there’s a rash in this situation. He has a weapon and he’s endangering another person, the police would have right to shoot to kill. 

Edited January 28, 2023 by StefanAVFC

[sne]

 

[Panto_Villan]

1 hour ago, StefanAVFC said:

Making the point that in the other recent case, a black man was beaten to death for nothing, whereas in this case, in a much more high profile case they allowed him to be hit in the head with a hammer before acting. 
 

Anyway I’m not sure there’s a rash in this situation. He has a weapon and he’s endangering another person, the police would have right to shoot to kill. 

You're comparing a random traffic stop with a hostage situation at the residence of the Speaker of the House though. Obviously the cops sent to the latter are going to be better trained, and they're going to know this is going to be a major news story and their conduct will be under a microscope if they do something wrong.

Shooting at the hostage taker when he's stood right next to Paul Pelosi would clearly not be a very smart course of action there. And as soon as he ran away, he wasn't threatening the hostage any more so there's no grounds to shoot to kill.

It's an apples to oranges comparison that doesn't really prove anything as far as I can see.

Edited January 28, 2023 by Panto_Villan

[StefanAVFC]

1 hour ago, Panto_Villan said:

You're comparing a random traffic stop with a hostage situation at the residence of the Speaker of the House though. Obviously the cops sent to the latter are going to be better trained, and they're going to know this is going to be a major news story and their conduct will be under a microscope if they do something wrong.

Shooting at the hostage taker when he's stood right next to Paul Pelosi would clearly not be a very smart course of action there. And as soon as he ran away, he wasn't threatening the hostage any more so there's no grounds to shoot to kill.

It's an apples to oranges comparison that doesn't really prove anything as far as I can see.

And them doing essentially nothing leading to him being whacked in the head is better?

[Panto_Villan]

58 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

And them doing essentially nothing leading to him being whacked in the head is better?

Yeah, as far as I'm concerned. I personally don't think the police should be approaching situations aggressively when there's an innocent person close by and potentially at risk, and even if Pelosi got smacked with a hammer in this case I think if this approach was taken in every situation a lot less people would end up dead. TBH I'm a bit surprised I'm having to defend the US police for not pulling out their guns and resorting to deadly force within the first ten seconds of arriving at a crime scene.

Do you genuinely think that if DePape was black the police would have immediately whipped out their pistols and started blasting, despite the husband of one of the most prominent politicians in the country being partially in the line of fire?

Edited January 28, 2023 by Panto_Villan

[maqroll]

11 hours ago, blandy said:

In isolation that horrific incident clearly isn’t about race and I think you’re right that the other things you mention are obviously in the mix there. Every one of these incidents makes the divide worse. 

I'm not sure that it's not entirely about race, despite the cops being black as well.

The cops likely felt that by virtue of Nichols being black, his life was inherently less valuable. I cant envision a similar scenario in which the victim is white. Not in Tennessee or in most cities here, but especially in the South. 

Chances are that the mostly black neighborhoods of Memphis are overpoliced, and that this is by design. 

So these black cops probably thought that they were simply doing what the white power structure wanted of them and that they had total impunity. 

If you want to go deeper, you might speculate that these black cops had such self-hatred that it manifested in murder of "one of their own".

Either way, it's hard to view this outside the prism of race and racial power structures, the history of the South, etc.

Edited January 28, 2023 by maqroll

[villakram]

On 28/01/2023 at 08:33, StefanAVFC said:

Making the point that in the other recent case, a black man was beaten to death for nothing, whereas in this case, in a much more high profile case they allowed him to be hit in the head with a hammer before acting. 
 

Anyway I’m not sure there’s a rash in this situation. He has a weapon and he’s endangering another person, the police would have right to shoot to kill. 

In defence of the police here, they had no knowledge of what the issue was other than a somewhat confusing call in by an apparently under duress Mr. Pelosi... and everything appeared very calm until it wasn't. Not really clear what more could have been done.