TheAuthority Posted January 4, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted January 4, 2023 He'll hand out a bunch of committee seats to crack pots and get it over the line. Damn the consequences - He's too much of a self centered power hungry egoist not too. The GOP have been flirting with Pandora's box for so long this kind of chaos is inevitable. Amusing when it bites them in the the arse but ultimately we are going to have 2 years of another bat shit crazy house getting absolutely zero of any consequence done. It's pathetic. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 10 hours ago, AXD said: Is this a rule? Is it not theoretically possible for someone from the minority to be speaker if they get the majority of the votes (not just most votes/popular vote)? I am sure no republican will ever vote for a democrat these days, but maybe it was possible in the past? edit: apparently it is just getting 218 votes. Jeffries is currrently on 212, McCarthy on 203. Yeah sorry I meant you need to win the popular vote and have at least 50% of the house members to win, so this in the modern day with the political divide as it is, is only possible for the majority party despite how in disarray the majority is in. So Jeffries won the popular vote in the first ballot but didn’t have 50%, so he won but couldn’t win. The system is weird because it only really works if each party only has one candidate each, which means the candidate has to please everybody in their party to have a chance of winning which surely in a political system is very dangerous given the concessions that candidate would have to make. Surely a better system would be that only the majority gets to have the speaker spot and whoever gets the most votes from either party gets the role. This means the candidate doesn’t have to bow to the extremists. The minority doesn’t get to put up a nomination, and they can vote for a majority speaker or vote “present”. This 50% rule is just BS because it gives the extreme minority a lot of power as we seeing now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 Not sure this speaker voting is going to end soon… 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 3 hours ago, nick76 said: Not sure this speaker voting is going to end soon… Yes, I suspect McCarthy moving all his stuff into the speaker’s office before actually becoming speaker might have ruffled a few feathers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 1 hour ago, LondonLax said: Yes, I suspect McCarthy moving all his stuff into the speaker’s office before actually becoming speaker might have ruffled a few feathers If I was the Democrats I’d speak to the senior members of my conference, agree some simple terms and offer a block of votes to McCarthy to get him to be speaker. Reasons 1. Not much is going to be done this Congress because GOP is so divided. 2. The terms could limit what GOP put on the floor of extreme wacky stuff extreme GOP want to put through 3. Agree some of the committee topics and/or members so it isn’t a complete ….. show for the next two years 4. Makes McCarthy look weak but still get him Speaker which he’s going to get anyway 5. The extreme GOP look silly and get alienated and their agenda disappears 6. While Democrat extremes won’t like it, who cares and they will at least privately understand it. 7. democrats can the run on bipartisan agenda to the American people and look like they care. Democrats have little to control in the house in the next two years, so if they can get some terms in, weaken the extreme GOP, weakens the GOP agenda and use it as a publicity drive for 2024….it’s better than the GOP extreme getting their way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted January 4, 2023 Moderator Share Posted January 4, 2023 This is clearly very exciting to those of you in the states. I should confess I have no idea what the speaker does - I'm guessing it's not like the House of Commons where they just occasionally shout at the children? Can someone give me the (very) simple version of what's happening here please? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted January 4, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted January 4, 2023 13 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: This is clearly very exciting to those of you in the states. I should confess I have no idea what the speaker does - I'm guessing it's not like the House of Commons where they just occasionally shout at the children? Can someone give me the (very) simple version of what's happening here please? Its similar to the Speaker in the Commons, in that they have the power to decide what is put to debate, but they didn't do the 'refereeing'of the debate our Speaker does, and they are not impartial as our is supposed to be either. In actuality the role is wholly partisan and essentially acts as the head of their parties efforts to direct the house as their party sees fit. Which is currently quite difficult for a Republican because that party, rather like the Tories (but more so) is split into old school bastards and outright whackos, who whilst generally on the same side of the debate in any situation are also miles apart to the extent that getting them to agree on anything is like herding cats. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrusr Posted January 4, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted January 4, 2023 30 minutes ago, Chindie said: Its similar to the Speaker in the Commons, in that they have the power to decide what is put to debate, but they didn't do the 'refereeing'of the debate our Speaker does, and they are not impartial as our is supposed to be either. In actuality the role is wholly partisan and essentially acts as the head of their parties efforts to direct the house as their party sees fit. Which is currently quite difficult for a Republican because that party, rather like the Tories (but more so) is split into old school bastards and outright whackos, who whilst generally on the same side of the debate in any situation are also miles apart to the extent that getting them to agree on anything is like herding cats. Isn't more akin to the Leader of the Commons role (currently Penny Mordaunt, formally Rees-Mogg) as they put stuff to debate rather than the speaker who in essence is the referee. Whilst it needs to be sorted to get the country to run, it is VERY funny to see this bite the GOP in the ass. Play with fire, you're going to get burnt. I don't really know why they have taken such a dislike to McCarthy (well, there are many reasons, just not ones I suspect those objecting to him hold) and not too fussed to look into anyway. I suspect that the GOP might need to put a different person forward, either one the Dems will vote for or the "far right" of the party will agree to. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted January 4, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted January 4, 2023 7 minutes ago, cyrusr said: Isn't more akin to the Leader of the Commons role (currently Penny Mordaunt, formally Rees-Mogg) as they put stuff to debate rather than the speaker who in essence is the referee. Whilst it needs to be sorted to get the country to run, it is VERY funny to see this bite the GOP in the ass. Play with fire, you're going to get burnt. I don't really know why they have taken such a dislike to McCarthy (well, there are many reasons, just not ones I suspect those objecting to him hold) and not too fussed to look into anyway. I suspect that the GOP might need to put a different person forward, either one the Dems will vote for or the "far right" of the party will agree to. Its a bit of a mix of the 2. There's not really a true allegory to the UK, because the Speaker in the US is the de racto leader of the biggest party in the house, which isn't necessarily a representative of the government (like now - the Republicans aren't in power but they will have the Speaker role), whereas here the Leader of the House is a government representative as a cabinet member. They have powers which mix the Leader of the House role and the Speakers role insofar as directing debate goes, but without the UK Speakers most public role as the moderator of the Commons. Different systems, roundly similar roles in limited or redirected ways. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, OutByEaster? said: This is clearly very exciting to those of you in the states. I should confess I have no idea what the speaker does - I'm guessing it's not like the House of Commons where they just occasionally shout at the children? Can someone give me the (very) simple version of what's happening here please? They are the chair and decide on what happens (which bill etc.) and when (timeline for things). The powers that Nancy accumulated during her reign are a large part of the bkg issue here. The members want some power back after Nancy turned the speaker position into a supreme ruler... much like how Blair turned the PM presidential at the expense of the wider cabinet and the UK has been suffering ever since. Edited January 4, 2023 by villakram 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrusr Posted January 4, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted January 4, 2023 33 minutes ago, Chindie said: Its a bit of a mix of the 2. There's not really a true allegory to the UK, because the Speaker in the US is the de racto leader of the biggest party in the house, which isn't necessarily a representative of the government (like now - the Republicans aren't in power but they will have the Speaker role), whereas here the Leader of the House is a government representative as a cabinet member. They have powers which mix the Leader of the House role and the Speakers role insofar as directing debate goes, but without the UK Speakers most public role as the moderator of the Commons. Different systems, roundly similar roles in limited or redirected ways. That makes sense. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuthority Posted January 4, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted January 4, 2023 He's failed to win again - 5th time. The smart thing would be for the dems to vote for him and fan the flames of discontent among the GOP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 2 hours ago, TheAuthority said: He's failed to win again - 5th time. The smart thing would be for the dems to vote for him and fan the flames of discontent among the GOP. And 6. At this point how could anyone even pretend he has any authority if he gets in through sheer fatigue. It's a joke. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuthority Posted January 5, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted January 5, 2023 4 hours ago, Davkaus said: And 6. At this point how could anyone even pretend he has any authority if he gets in through sheer fatigue. It's a joke. They really do have a completely nutty fringe in that party which they've courted for the Trump votes. They are reaping what they sowed. I still think the smart move from the Dems would be to help vote him in and let them fight amongst themselves for 2 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post il_serpente Posted January 5, 2023 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted January 5, 2023 14 hours ago, nick76 said: If I was the Democrats I’d speak to the senior members of my conference, agree some simple terms and offer a block of votes to McCarthy to get him to be speaker. Reasons 1. Not much is going to be done this Congress because GOP is so divided. 2. The terms could limit what GOP put on the floor of extreme wacky stuff extreme GOP want to put through 3. Agree some of the committee topics and/or members so it isn’t a complete ….. show for the next two years 4. Makes McCarthy look weak but still get him Speaker which he’s going to get anyway 5. The extreme GOP look silly and get alienated and their agenda disappears 6. While Democrat extremes won’t like it, who cares and they will at least privately understand it. 7. democrats can the run on bipartisan agenda to the American people and look like they care. Democrats have little to control in the house in the next two years, so if they can get some terms in, weaken the extreme GOP, weakens the GOP agenda and use it as a publicity drive for 2024….it’s better than the GOP extreme getting their way! 8 hours ago, TheAuthority said: He's failed to win again - 5th time. The smart thing would be for the dems to vote for him and fan the flames of discontent among the GOP. It would be hilarious if the Dems offered to give him the votes he needs if he agrees to keep MTG off the committees he's promised her. He was hoping that she would rally enough votes from the batsh*t crazy wing to get him elected, but he's currently getting nothing out of the deal he cut with her except her own vote so he doesn't need her any more. Then we get to watch Boebert, Gaetz and Gosar skewer her for "selling out" to McCarthy for nothing and you can be sure she wouldn't sit by and shut up and take it. The ensuing catfight would be a hugely entertaining sideshow for a while. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuthority Posted January 5, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted January 5, 2023 6 minutes ago, il_serpente said: It would be hilarious if the Dems offered to give him the votes he needs if he agrees to keep MTG off the committees he's promised her. He was hoping that she would rally enough votes from the batsh*t crazy wing to get him elected, but he's currently getting nothing out of the deal he cut with her except her own vote so he doesn't need her any more. Then we get to watch Boebert, Gaetz and Gosar skewer her for "selling out" to McCarthy for nothing and you can be sure she wouldn't sit by and shut up and take it. The ensuing catfight would be a hugely entertaining sideshow for a while. Gingrich started and refined this partisan evil, but has it ever been this bad? Maybe I'm naive but this is dysfunctional beyond the pale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il_serpente Posted January 5, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted January 5, 2023 4 minutes ago, TheAuthority said: Gingrich started and refined this partisan evil, but has it ever been this bad? Maybe I'm naive but this is dysfunctional beyond the pale. Never this bad, partially because the fringe is crazier now and there's more of them so they're less of a fringe and closer to mainstream. They really define the party at this point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 Someone from the Dems centre should offer McCarthy enough votes and get assurances that they deal with their loony fringe. The Dems can play this really well if they think with their heads and not hearts for a couple of minutes. I'd love nothing more than Trump's legacy being washed down the drain by their own party. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuart_75 Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 MAGA on MAGA cannibalism, love it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 Haha - I just saw a clip of Matt Gaetz calling Trump asking him to vote McCarthy 'sad'! The rats are fleeing the Trump boat. What a vote, this is more entertaining than when Trump lost the election.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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