Leeds United

[Rino8]

23 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

We have a lot of history and just over a decade ago, we were challenging for top 4, yet most villa fans don't act like we're the greatest team out there or we're something special. The vast majority last year, knew that 17th was a good season. 

In contrast, Leeds who haven't been in the prem for how many years, and weren't even a top championship side for many years, have now become some elitist fanbase because they finally got promoted. 

 

This is the exact thing people laugh at Leeds for though -  bringing up challenging the top 4, and your success was much less and as short lives as Leeds' was.

 

A lot of Villa fans talk like they're the gatekeepers of the elite. You regularly see fans talk about other clubs achievements as 'small club with one lucky spell/manager.'  And its odd because Villa are very much the same. If you don't win the league and CL in the 80's do you know how ridiculous this would all look? And if you discount Victorian era achievements youre exactly the same as those clubs youre looking down on

Edited October 6, 2020 by Rino8

[YouUnastanFren]

2 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

But I don't hear about Leeds past success or what they used to be. They've become so arrogant its like they're currently that team, when in reality you've finally got out of the championship and have had a couple of decent results. 

Do you not enjoy that though? It makes the games seem like they're worth more if both sides talk themselves up beforehand. I'd love have that bite to every fixture.

I much prefer fans thinking their team is god's gift than the stuff like the wet flannel Arsenal fans asking Villa to "take care" of Martinez like he's a stray dog and hoping our game against them is 0-0 so both keepers get a cleansheet. Blurgh.

 

[DCJonah]

2 minutes ago, Rino8 said:

This is the exact thing people laugh at Leeds for though -  bringing up challenging the top 4, and your success was much less and as short lives as Leeds' was.

 

A lot of Villa fans talk like they're the gatekeepers of the elite. You regularly see fans talk about other clubs achievements as 'small club with one lucky spell/manager.'  And its odd because Villa are very much the same. If you don't win the league and CL in the 80's do you know how ridiculous this would all look? And if you discount Victorian era achievements youre exactly the same as those clubs youre looking down on

Well you've completely missed my point. Bringing up challenging the top 4 wasn't to brag. It was to show that we've had relative recent success, but yet the majority of our fans knew we were a newly promoted club and that 17th was a good season. 

In contrast, Leeds, who haven't been in the premier league for years and years, have come up with this utter arrogance as if they've never been away. As if they're back on top and always have been. 

There's a big difference 

[DCJonah]

Just now, YouUnastanFren said:

Do you not enjoy that though? It makes the games seem like they're worth more if both sides talk themselves up beforehand. I'd love have that bite to every fixture.

I much prefer fans thinking their team is god's gift than the stuff like the wet flannel Arsenal fans asking Villa to "take care" of Martinez like he's a stray dog and hoping our game against them is 0-0 so both keepers get a cleansheet. Blurgh.

 

Not really. Not when it's delusional stuff. 

I'm all for fans thinking highly of their team but as with Newcastle fans, it looks utterly ridiculous at times. The arrogance of Leeds fans makes them stand out more, especially as the media have lapped it up. 

[bobzy]

33 minutes ago, Rino8 said:

There's an odd section of Villa fans that love to talk about how huge a club they are and how much they've won, that they're an entirely different entity to your Forest, Leeds, Spurs etc but most of your winnings are in the 1800's? Legitimately not a person alive has seen those days but you'll all talk about how Everton are a 'proper club like us with proper history like us' its bizarre. Post WW2 you've had some good stints, like a lot of clubs but that's about it.

 

I dont think I've ever seen Preston fans talk about how they absolutely bossed the league in 1890.

FWIW, I sort of agree with this - we haven't really won much and there's definitely a feeling of entitlement of being in the top flight.

However, we have also been a top flight side for most of our existence - outside of our recent 3 seasons in the Championship, the only time since 1975 that we haven't been in the top league was 1987-88.  So that's 4 seasons outside the top flight in, what, the last 45 seasons?  Leeds are basically the opposite - from 1990/91 to 2003/04, Leeds were a top flight team but otherwise, they've been in the lower leagues.  Sure, the trophy winning is pretty similar, but there's a massive feeling amongst Leeds fans (and the media tbh) that they "should be" a top flight side.  I'm not really sure where this comes from?

[bobzy]

Also, I don't understand why we're so concerned with what Leeds are doing or how it's being reported in the media.  It's all a bit odd for me.  Bielsa is absolutely a big name in football management and him moving to a middle-of-the-road Championship club was a huge deal (I seem to remember some Villa fans wanting him here before we got... maybe Remi Garde in?).  It was a big risk for Bielsa and it's paid off - Leeds were the very definition of Championship mediocrity and Bielsa made them a big force in that league with not that much investment in the squad.

That same Leeds side running Liverpool close and losing is a pretty big deal in the context of Liverpool's achievements last season and where Leeds have come from.  It would be a similarly big story if an equivalent side (I guess the likes of Preston, Brentford, Forest,  etc. who often come close to the playoffs) did the same.  Fair play to them for running Liverpool close.

[Stevo985]

40 minutes ago, Rino8 said:

Competing at the top level but achieving very little is essentially the stick everybody uses to beat Newcastle with it can't then be turned around as an argument for success.

Since Newcastle last won any major trophy, Villa have won:

5 league cups
1 FA Cup
1 Top Flight Title
1 European Cup
1 European Super Cup

 

It's not even nearly the same. 
Yeah the last 20 years have been quite shit for Villa apart from a few seasons challenging the top 4. But it's not like we've won absolutely nothing since the 19th century.

 

Like I said previously, Leeds' biggest asset is timing. They were an excellent team under Revie which the older generation grew up with and still remember, and they had a brief period of success (without actually winning anything) in the late 90's/Early 2000's when the premier league, and football in general, was absolutely booming and achieving worldwide exposure, so they're a household name. The same could be said for Newcastle by the way regarding that second part.

If Leeds had been relegated 10 years earlier and then spent 16 years in the Championship nobody would care about them. They're a big club. But they're nowhere near as big as they think they are, and it's annoying as neutrals that the media have joined in that jizzfest this season.

Edited October 6, 2020 by Stevo985

[useless]

Leeds have won the FA Cup and League Cup once and the league title three times...

whereas we've won the FA Cup seven times, the League Cup, five times, the league title seven times, the European cup once, and also the UEFA super cup...

so the trophy hauls of the two teams aren't even similar...

Leeds are closer to a team like Albion in terms of trophies won...

As for seasons spent in the top flight we've spent 56 more years in the top division than Leeds...

Even birmingham have spent more seasons in the top flight than Leeds, going back to the Albion comparison they've spent thirty more seasons in the top flight...

Edited October 6, 2020 by useless

[Zatman]

I am more concerned for the health of Bielsa biggest fan on this forum, he hasnt been online since Sunday  

[Stevo985]

20 minutes ago, Zatman said:

I am more concerned for the health of Bielsa biggest fan on this forum, he hasnt been online since Sunday  

Since we got the best result in our recent history?

I can't think why he might not have managed to get onto VT. Think Stevo, THINK.

[StefanAVFC]

Makes me laugh Leeds fans spending their free time on a villa forum trying to tell us how massive they are and how deluded we are, and then expecting us to turn around and say 'yeah fair enough'

[DCJonah]

33 minutes ago, Zatman said:

I am more concerned for the health of Bielsa biggest fan on this forum, he hasnt been online since Sunday  

Can you imagine the pain he's currently going through. 

For a few weeks he was able to praise his managerial idol, all because they narrowly lost to Liverpool

Then, the manager he wanted sacked back in the championship and last December, goes and beats the reigning champs 7-2, inflicting one of the biggest defeats klopp has ever experienced. 

Imagine the pain. I feel for him. 

[AJ]

11 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Can you imagine the pain he's currently going through. 

For a few weeks he was able to praise his managerial idol, all because they narrowly lost to Liverpool

Then, the manager he wanted sacked back in the championship and last December, goes and beats the reigning champs 7-2, inflicting one of the biggest defeats klopp has ever experienced. 

Imagine the pain. I feel for him. 

[VillaJ100]

2 hours ago, Rino8 said:

But you didn't continue to win in those 70.

 

Competing at the top level but achieving very little is essentially the stick everybody uses to beat Newcastle with it can't then be turned around as an argument for success.

 

So 3 generations ago your club had a dominant spell and has spent its last 120 years telling future generations how great the club was? I mean I guess but achievements from the Victorian era have no relevance to really any modern fan.

Well we kind of did being as we won a major honour every decade from the 1880's to 1920's. We've also been in at least one cup final in every decade of our existence. Even since 2010 which has been totally shit we've been in 2 Cup finals. That's a third of the amount of Cup finals Newcastle and Leeds  have been in in their entire existence. In the worst period in our history. Fair enough we didn't win but we gave ourselves an opportunity to. That's what's meant by competing. 

[Rino8]

2 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

Since Newcastle last won any major trophy, Villa have won:

5 league cups
1 FA Cup
1 Top Flight Title
1 European Cup
1 European Super Cup

 

It's not even nearly the same. 
Yeah the last 20 years have been quite shit for Villa apart from a few seasons challenging the top 4. But it's not like we've won absolutely nothing since the 19th century.

 

Like I said previously, Leeds' biggest asset is timing. They were an excellent team under Revie which the older generation grew up with and still remember, and they had a brief period of success (without actually winning anything) in the late 90's/Early 2000's when the premier league, and football in general, was absolutely booming and achieving worldwide exposure, so they're a household name. The same could be said for Newcastle by the way regarding that second part.

 

Wasn't what I was getting at regarding Newcastle I was saying that simply staying in the prem is something people use to belittle Newcastle but its something that was used in the post I quoted as a defence which is odd for me.

 

That list is good, but is it that different to Leeds and Forest? That's been my entire point. Some Villa fans like to say they're eons bigger than those clubs and you use 18th century achievements to back it up 

[Stevo985]

3 minutes ago, Rino8 said:

Wasn't what I was getting at regarding Newcastle I was saying that simply staying in the prem is something people use to belittle Newcastle but its something that was used in the post I quoted as a defence which is odd for me.

 

That list is good, but is it that different to Leeds and Forest? That's been my entire point. Some Villa fans like to say they're eons bigger than those clubs and you use 18th century achievements to back it up 

I don't think many Villa fans would say we're "eons" better than either of those clubs.

But most would say we're bigger. Because we are. There isn't a single measurable metric you could use to say Leeds are bigger than Villa imo. Forest have a far better argument as they're a bigger club than leeds but I still think Villa are the bigger club.

And that's usually based on things like our European cup win which, whilst still longer ago than I'd like, isn't from the 18th century (football as we know it didn't exist in the 18th century by the way)

 

Aston Villa are a big club. Do some fans exaggerate how big we are? Of course they **** do. We're football fans. The frustration in this instance isn't Leeds fans' delusions, but the media joining in

[DCJonah]

10 minutes ago, Rino8 said:

Wasn't what I was getting at regarding Newcastle I was saying that simply staying in the prem is something people use to belittle Newcastle but its something that was used in the post I quoted as a defence which is odd for me.

 

That list is good, but is it that different to Leeds and Forest? That's been my entire point. Some Villa fans like to say they're eons bigger than those clubs and you use 18th century achievements to back it up 

You're really missing the point. 

No one would care if you were banging on about past achievements. 

Its the arrogance displayed as of right now, which is why many fans dislike your club and fanbase. 

[tomav84]

5 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

You're really missing the point. 

No one would care if you were banging on about past achievements. 

Its the arrogance displayed as of right now, which is why many fans dislike your club and fanbase. 

in their defence, this arrogance is being fueled by the media

"Leeds making the premier league their playground" headline from their win over fulham being just one example

[Demitri_C]

I havent kept up with most of this but he seriously isnt saying leeds are as big as villa is he?

You have been notorious bottlers for the last 15 years and you should build biesla a statue for saving your club

[DCJonah]

10 minutes ago, tomav84 said:

in their defence, this arrogance is being fueled by the media

"Leeds making the premier league their playground" headline from their win over fulham being just one example

It does seem to be linked. Absolutely crazy.