Delphinho123 Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 It is always the same with this sort of player, when you as a team are playing poorly they are the best player on effort alone. When the team is playing well no matter how much this sort of player runs around you still find yourself groaning when you lose possession because of their poor control. Not McLeish's worst signing by a long way (doesn't say a lot as the rest were shite) but as and when (if) the team improves I suspect he will look more and more like a try hard but ultimately average player. Pretty much this. It is certainly hard to dislike the player even if he isn't brilliant. A good pro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfisher Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 I'm asking you if you think castigated is too strong? Do you think Holman is being castigated, by anyone? It was explained in a later post what I think. But you're missing the point to pick up on one word. There are different kinds of technique employed on a football pitch. I think he employs a poor technique when taking a first touch, shows average technique when picking a pass but good technique when taking a shot. I think he's limited "technically" overall mainly due to his ball control which is exasperated by his enthusiasm, which is in itself a double edged sword. I love his Milner-esq engine and his terrier like attitude. It makes him a handful but he tires quickly as a result. He's an above average tackler. I agree with most of that, but I think he's good at picking a pass. As I said people who unfairly criticise, castigate, lambaste (whatever word you think suits, it's not important here) his technique in passing, control and shooting are incorrect to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted December 3, 2012 Moderator Share Posted December 3, 2012 As I said people who unfairly criticise, castigate, lambaste (whatever word you think suits it's not important here) his technique in passing, control and shooting are incorrect to do so. No, no they are not. They simply hold a different opinion to you, just because you believe you are right doesn't make it so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfisher Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 No, no they are not. They simply hold a different opinion to you, just because you believe you are right doesn't make it so. IMHO of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 I just don't think the words you're using are appropriate or conducive to reasoned debate. In my honest opinion of course. I've given my opinion on Holman as a player. If you don't agree that's fine, but I'm certainly not lambasting him, castigating him.... Heck I'm don't feel I'm being overly critical at all. I like the guy. You're picking a fight in the wrong room. I guess that's the point I was trying to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimzk5 Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 His a slightly better version of craig Gardner. Does everything alrite, not brilliant, but not shit, always puts the effort in and can hit a ball so hard its like his get pneumatic legs. I likes the man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfisher Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 I just don't think the words you're using are appropriate or conducive to reasoned debate. In my honest opinion of course. I've given my opinion on Holman as a player. If you don't agree that's fine, but I'm certainly not lambasting him, castigating him.... Heck I'm don't feel I'm being overly critical at all. I like the guy. You're picking a fight in the wrong room. I guess that's the point I was trying to make. I'm sorry I'm not sure what your point is any more, I don't know WTF you're on about now. Are you even reading my posts lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 I'm sorry I'm not sure what your point is any more, I don't know WTF you're on about now. Are you even reading my posts lol. Did you really just laugh out loud? No worries. I won't castigate you any further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfisher Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Is Holman good at the technical side of his game? I think so, I think demonstrably so. I can pick out a few examples of when his technique has been excellent, such as the goal. Others think not, to varying degrees. I think that is unfair to varying degrees. This is the argument. You have a problem with my use of the word castigate, but the strength of the word was obviously mitigated by what has been said in the rest of my post(s), that is obvious, and I've explained that. What more can I say to appease you? I've no problem with debate, go right ahead I like a good debate, but it's courteous to read the peoples posts that you are debating with. But if you follow an irrelevant line of argument to the points being made it's frustrating for everybody. Yes I lol'd is loling uncool or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodigan Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 sat in the freezing cold watching the socceroos play hong kong last night - think there's no doubt we got the cream of the aussie talent in bretty holman and chris herd... they were pants!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banger75 Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 The aussie team that played hong kong had something like 8 debutants, and almost none of the team could be considered 'regulars', with the exception perhaps of Luke Wilkshere (Dinamo Moscow), and Brett Emerton (ex-Blackburn, now Sydney FC). As the East Asia tournament is not on a FIFA date, mostly A-League players have been used. That said, they were pants! But this is in no way reflective of the Australian talent playing around the world who were not included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodigan Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 banger, i know the squad was shite, not to mention the pitch which was abysmal... it would be almost insulting if they got full caps for this series of qualifiers... and while it is not reflective of the overseas players, it goes some way to explain why emile seems to banging them in for fun in the A-league!!! don't think wilkshere was playing but archie thompson and richard garcia were.... emerton looked like a carthorse, but did enough to score the winner.... matt mackay was probably the best player on the pitch, but as he was wearing a scrum-cap noone took him seriously... going to watch the victory against the jets on 21st, so will be interesting to see how emile's going... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 You know that you'll get a real shift out of Holman regardless, his work rate/ethic is second to none. However, he really is limited technically - when he gets the ball at his feet you don't know if he'll be able to control it properly, if he'll reach a team mate with his passing, if he'll dribble into the right position or do anything of note. Sometimes he can but his brain is a lot more ambitious than his feet are, that's for sure. To contrast - the goal against QPR, then later on in the game, totally miscontrolling a simple pass which lead up to their 1-on-1 against Guzan. I definitely wouldn't start with him but he's a very useful person to bring on to hassle tired defences with 20 minutes to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Is Holman good at the technical side of his game? I think so, I think demonstrably so. I can pick out a few examples of when his technique has been excellent, such as the goal. Others think not, to varying degrees. I think that is unfair to varying degrees. This is the argument. You have a problem with my use of the word castigate, but the strength of the word was obviously mitigated by what has been said in the rest of my post(s), that is obvious, and I've explained that. What more can I say to appease you? I've no problem with debate, go right ahead I like a good debate, but it's courteous to read the peoples posts that you are debating with. But if you follow an irrelevant line of argument to the points being made it's frustrating for everybody. Yes I lol'd is loling uncool or something? I have no issue with your line of debate. Personally, I've explained as best I can where I'm coming from with regards to his technical ability and were only disagreeing with on a minute level. Thought it was obvious I wanted you to rescind the word castigate. When you accuse people of something like that it puts their back up against the wall and rather than spark reasoned debate they start throwing flames. I'm not the only person who thought that, but rather than leave you to wonder why I've tried to explain it to you without directing you to the Oxford dictionary explination. Because you're a big boy, you clearly have a good grasp of the English language. Despite the inappropriate lol. I've not seen anybody else express frustration here. If they are I apologise, done now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 I can't believe how many people are absolutely crucifying Holman in here . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfisher Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 I have no issue with your line of debate. Personally, I've explained as best I can where I'm coming from with regards to his technical ability and were only disagreeing with on a minute level. Thought it was obvious I wanted you to rescind the word castigate. When you accuse people of something like that it puts their back up against the wall and rather than spark reasoned debate they start throwing flames. I'm not the only person who thought that, but rather than leave you to wonder why I've tried to explain it to you without directing you to the Oxford dictionary explination. Because you're a big boy, you clearly have a good grasp of the English language. Despite the inappropriate lol. I've not seen anybody else express frustration here. If they are I apologise, done now. That is unbelievably petty, but hey ho. I'll attempt to bring the thread back on topic, so you think Holman can't pass very well? His passing accuracy stats indicate a different story. Ps I hope you're happy with 'can't pass very well' and it is not too strong a description, I don't want to offend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qwpzxjor1 Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 I like Holman. He's never going to be our best player, but you can't fault his effort, work rate and dedication. I personally think he has a good amount of ability too, his passing is a little off at times and his decision making can be poor, but that's something we've got running through our whole team and will only improve with experience and a higher level of training than they've been provided with previously. Give me someone like Holman over someone like Djibril Cisse (bags of talent but lacking dedication and work ethic) any day. Holman could become a very very good player. At the moment he's important to our midfield for his energy levels and tenacity, but I'd be lying if I said he was a complete midfielder, he still has a lot to work on IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 4, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted December 4, 2012 That is unbelievably petty, but hey ho. I'll attempt to bring the thread back on topic, so you think Holman can't pass very well? His passing accuracy stats indicate a different story. Well you say that, but I had a look myself. Premier League Pass Success Rate (Average over all games played): Fabian Delph - 88.4% Ashley Westwood - 86.3% Karim El Ahmadhi - 85.0% Stephen Ireland - 78.4% Barry Bannan - 78.4% Brett Holman - 73% So of our regular midfielders this season, he has comfortably the worst passing accuracy In fact, even Gabby, N'Zogbia and Weimann come in with better passing stats with 78.4%, 75.8% and 75% respectively. And the average of the whole team is 75.9% so he's behind that as well. So yeah, his passing accuracy really doesn't back up your point at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 He's still a legend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 easy to admire his workrate but I think he could be better served as impact sub in last 20 minutes when opposition is tired Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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