AVFC-Prideofbrum Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I don't think Pulis is world class or anything, I just really don't rate O'Neill. But it's just bizzare why not. He has been successful everywhere he's gone, he was successful at Villa, itt's not luck, he's a good manager. How can you not rate him? He has flaws like every manager but he gets results everywhere he goes. His record is there to look at? :? You don't understand why he doesn't rate MON? How about the fact he's left us with a terrible squad. I mean look at it. It's rotten to the core. The players he bought in were signed for massive wages (Randy is to blame for that as well) and were overpriced. Then later on they were sold for peanuts, if that. What about their horrible attitude as well. Thinking they're better than they are when in reality they would look out of place in a pub team. He's wasted alot of money basically. He's a good manager. Let's not kid ourselves. I would take him back right now over the current manager. But overall he hasn't adapted to the modern game so he's extremely limited. I would also like to know as well why you thought he was successful here. Top 6 back then wasn't anything to brag about. Moyes managed to finish above him twice with a shoestring budget comparison to the millions MON spent and wasn't far off when he did finish below him in the final season under here. Since his depature, the top 6 has gotten stronger when it's become the new top 4 back in the days. And finally, what on earth did he win? Nothing. He wasn't successful here and the fact you think that is actually painful to see. He failed to reach the Champions League or win any worthwhile silverware. Oh wow, he got 2 wembley trips that he lost in and Europa spots that he couldn't be arsed with after wasting millions of reaching there. Like I said, painful to see. Despite all those points you raise you still admit he's a good manager. When it comes to 'what has he won' always a pointless arguement IMO, unless you're very lucky, you don't win things unless you've got one of the best teams in the division. David Moyes is a very good manager and he's won nothing. Of course he failed to reach the Champions League, we didn't have the funds both in transfers and wages to do it. 09/10, we finished above Liverpool, an excellent achievement really. Why was he successful? The first two seasons he finished 6th, we had the 8th highest wage bill, so were punching above our weight. 6th highest wage bill in the 09-10 season, finished 6th but also above a huge club like Liverpool. First time we finished top 6 3 times in a row in a long while, our best points tally in a 20 game season wasn't it in the Premiership as well? We finished with 60+ points 3 times in a row. i think that's an excellent achievement. We also didn't spend the sort of sums where you'd expect more to be achieved, he also started with a poor squad and his first set of signings weren't upto scratch to be competitive for our overall ambitions, so really when you're talking £90 million net spend or whatever ...that isn't to reach the top 4/6 ...that's to try and get to a top 6/8 position. For example, we finished 11th his first season in charge, big players aren't going to come, of course he could have done much better in the market, make no mistake but we were also never going to sign players at that stage who would be good enough to break the top 4 IMO. those players were the quality who could push top half of the table and then you build once again from there. As said, at our absolute peak of spending wages, we were spending 6th highest in the league. We didn't even come close to have the finances in transfer fee's to break the top 4, so he did the best really available to him, therefore it's a success. If I was given the tools to only make a bed and I made a bed, i'd call it a success, not a failure because I couldn't build a house. You only have to look at Man City, it took them £200+ million and nearly double wage bill to reach the top 4. It's a massive ask. He was successful. there's nothing more really he could have done, he had his failures but he bought the best results this club was going to get for where we were as a club. the last line, quoted from you. He's a good manager. so why doesn't Mantis rate him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 He definately hit his ceiling of capability when with us, but by god I'd swap that for what we have now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanky Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 He definately hit his ceiling of capability when with us, but by god I'd swap that for what we have now. Agree with this. Like a few others have said in the thread. Once we get a manager in who gets us playing and picking up some good results consistently, O'Neill will be a distant memory. However, the board at the moment seem to persist in Houllier and now McLeish so it won't be any time soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Steve Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 this article from 2007 still rings true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Can't believe people are having a go at the way we played under MON or trying to argue that Pullis is a better manager. There really is an agenda at play here. Top man , top manager and as I said when he was given the Sunderland job it will be a nightmare appointment for Lerner. Nothing to do with Blunderland being my "second favourite team" as I actually do not like them at all. Everything to do with recognising that MON is a top manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 this article from 2007 still rings trueWell, it doesn't really, does it? It is an obviously polemical blog, full of exaggerated points, which was written before MON got his three 6th Places with Villa, so it actually makes the writer look a bit foolish. On a brighter note, I was was struck by this comment about MON's time with WycombeOver a five-year period he turned an unremarkable non-league team that used to fill up its old ground by wheeling in patients from the then adjacent hospital, into an established league outfit. Could this be a solution to our dwindling gates? Maybe Randy could investigate shipping a few patients in from the City Hospital? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshVilla Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Every time i watch sunderland recently the way they are playing full of confidence and energy its painful almost like watching an old rerun of bullseye "look what you could have won" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Ok sorry. What a load of rubbish. Not being hostile but to say pullis is a better manager than mon is IMO complete and utter rubbish.Why's that? I agree with Mantis as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 why do people feel 6th was an amazing achievement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanky Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Ok sorry. What a load of rubbish. Not being hostile but to say pullis is a better manager than mon is IMO complete and utter rubbish.Why's that? I agree with Mantis as well. Fair enough but I'd ask why? Pulis has done a good job at Stoke despite the fact I don't like them or the football they play, but a better manager than O'Neill? That I'm not sure of to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Ok sorry. What a load of rubbish. Not being hostile but to say pullis is a better manager than mon is IMO complete and utter rubbish.Why's that? I agree with Mantis as well. Fair enough but I'd ask why? Pulis has done a good job at Stoke despite the fact I don't like them or the football they play, but a better manager than O'Neill? That I'm not sure of to be honest. for me he is a better motivator adn is more adept in transfer market than MON. He has found players discarded like Etherington, Sorensen, Shawcross and Walters and made them vital parts of his squad. Also underrated tactically Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiegoD Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 for me he is a better motivator adn is more adept in transfer market than MON. He has found players discarded like Etherington, Sorensen, Shawcross and Walters and made them vital parts of his squad. Also underrated tactically But he has the exact same negatives u hate with MON. Stokes squad is ageing, Pulis had bought expensive flops like Tuncay, he also spent over the odds on players from the league like Palicos, Jerome and Crouch. I'm sure there are more examples but thats off the top of my head. Objectively MON is better than Pulis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 paying over the odds but doubt they are on anything liek Heskey or Beye salary. Tuncay was a flop as didnt fit the system but he played a few decent games for club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 this article from 2007 still rings true comment underneath is so true "He also left us with a lot of his core players on long-term, high-wage contracts (Bobo Balde, Alan Thompson). " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makouns_grin Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Seems that Sunderland's current form has nothing to do with the honeymoon period of any new manager, just that O'Neill is amazing. Sounds about right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 why do people feel 6th was an amazing achievement?Why do people think that 6th (3 times on the trot) was such a terrible failure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 why do people feel 6th was an amazing achievement?Why do people think that 6th (3 times on the trot) was such a terrible failure? It was most certainly not a failure or a huge success. For us though it was most certainly relative success. Something we last achieved in the 1930's. Its not just the three 6th places finishes though it doesn't tell the whole story. It was season on season improvement culminating in our highest points total in a 38 game season. It should also be remembered that despite for two of the three seasons having the 8th highest wage bill and in his last season the 6th highest wage bill we made a great attempt at breaking the top 4. It came at a cost of around a 70 odd mill net spend but when you consider where he found us and the fact after he left we sold three of the players he signed for a combined 62mill making a profit of around 30 mill that was a very good return. He was/is the most successful manager we have had this century and I sadly see that remaining the case for a good few years yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I don't think Pulis is world class or anything, I just really don't rate O'Neill. But it's just bizzare why not. He has been successful everywhere he's gone, he was successful at Villa, itt's not luck, he's a good manager. How can you not rate him? He has flaws like every manager but he gets results everywhere he goes. His record is there to look at? :?He's an ok manager but nothing more IMO. As OnlyOne said, he wasn't exactly successful here. He did nothing Gregory, Little and Atkinson didn't do. Even DOL got 6th once. Remember, all these managers had to work under Ellis, which was considerably harder than working under the pre-2010 Lerner. Can't believe people are having a go at the way we played under MON or trying to argue that Pullis is a better manager. There really is an agenda at play here. Top man , top manager and as I said when he was given the Sunderland job it will be a nightmare appointment for Lerner. Nothing to do with Blunderland being my "second favourite team" as I actually do not like them at all. Everything to do with recognising that MON is a top manager.So if you have a different opinion you must have "an agenda"? Grow up. why do people feel 6th was an amazing achievement?Why do people think that 6th (3 times on the trot) was such a terrible failure?We don't, we just don't think it's a huge success either. Let's face it, with the funds he had three 6th place finishes is about the bare minimum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyOne Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I don't think Pulis is world class or anything, I just really don't rate O'Neill. He's a good manager. so why doesn't Mantis rate him? What I mean he's a good man manager, but not a good modern manager where you'll also have to be flexible with the squad, be smart in the transfer market, being the attacking side (MON was hopeless at that...that's why we had a better away record where we could play counter attack) etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrees Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 why do people feel 6th was an amazing achievement?Why do people think that 6th (3 times on the trot) was such a terrible failure? David Moyes probably would have done, as he looked down each year. But then he was probably wondering what he could have achieved with the incredible backing that the bloke who could never get past him had. 3 consecutive 5th place finishes with incredibly low resources was the true achievement of that period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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