Martin O'Neill

[coda]

Did anyone know that MON has won 3 out of 5 games already since he took over. Just making sure everybody knew because you may have missed it on the site this week.

[Richard]

considering they have a sell to buy policy and have sold their best players in last 2 windows MON is a bit of a hypocrite

Why?

[thetrees]

If we have a preference between him and Houllier and McLeish, it would be MON. If it were a choice for Villa between MON and say Guus Hidink; well thats a different question. MON is neither a cancer nor the all encompassing solution; he was a little of everything. Its simply not as black and white as some would like it.

As I ve pointed out, no one would care about MON if we were doing well. We aren’t so it becomes legitimate discussion. I wish we didn’t have to talk about him, but frankly McLeish even if had millions to spend wouldn’t be able to do the job.

The original point is that Sunderland had a good result; one of three shocks on that round of games. You said it was anti-football, so I argued it was relevant, and that SUnderland fans, like virtually all fans want to see winning football, before almost anything else. You can brand it anyway you like, but its the only real judge in the end.

It certainly isn't black and white.

'Anti-football' is a phrase ('brand') that has been related to McLeish. My argument is that McLeish and O'Neill's 'style' are incredibly similar.

What i watched yesterday (which was appalling) I had also seen under O'Neill.

I argued when O'Neill was the manager that we needed to be entertained at home, but our supporters were more into chanting his name and asking him for a wave, rather than the more appropriate 'you don't know what you're doing'.

MON, Alex McLeish, no different. We were stuck with the one, and now we're stuck with the other. It could be argued that one had much greater opportunity, that's all.

As for Sunderland's most recent victory, I didn't see it. I only assumed that it was anti-football, so your confirmation is most welcome.

[markavfc40]

I argued when O'Neill was the manager that we needed to be entertained at home, but our supporters were more into chanting his name and asking him for a wave, rather than the more appropriate 'you don't know what you're doing'.

MON, Alex McLeish, no different. We were stuck with the one, and now we're stuck with the other. It could be argued that one had much greater opportunity, that's all.

There were plenty of really entertaining games at home. Off the top of my head - Beating Chelsea twice, the 4-1 against Newcastle, the 3-0 against Sheff Utd, the 4-2 against Man City, the 5-2 against Burnley the 2-1 against Ajax, the 5-1 against Sha, the 4-0, 4-2 and 5-1 against Bolton, the 2-2 against Arsenal, the 3-3 against Everton, the 6-4 against Blackburn.

It is incomparable what we served up back then to the tripe we have been served up over the last 18 months.

It really is a shame that it seems we will look back on the O'Neill years and see them as our most successful of this century for many years to come. The blame for that at the moment has to be laid firmly at Lerners door and it simply isn't good enough for this great club.

Oh and to compare McLeish to O'Neill is foolish. Just look at his record at Leicester a comparable sized club to Sha. Got them promoted, 4 top 10 finishes on the spin, 3 league cup finals winning it twice. McLeish may be a nice bloke but in terms of management he isn't a patch on O'Neill. Again though the fault for us being lumbered with him is down to Lerner.

[PauloBarnesi]

MON, Alex McLeish, no different.

I would argue that they may have similar ethos; one seems to be successful, the other seems to be a poor imitation of the other.

I would hazard a guess that if McLeish was given the backing of Lerner to the extent that MON got, we would wouldn’t anywhere near as good or as efficient.

If people were so sick of MON era, it seems ironic that we have now got it again with no joy; suggests how little those at the top really know about football.

[Big_John_10]

I argued when O'Neill was the manager that we needed to be entertained at home, but our supporters were more into chanting his name and asking him for a wave, rather than the more appropriate 'you don't know what you're doing'.

Maybe most people were entertained and just because you were moaning doesn't make it right.

You wanted him sacked and he then went on to get The highest points total we've had in a 38 game season and got to a semi and a final.

I think the you don't know what your doing chants should have been saved for fans like yourself.

[villa4europe]

It could be argued that one had much greater opportunity, that's all.

i agree with that bit, even at our best under MON we wouldnt be competing in this years league, its become alot harder IMO

the MON years look great because of who we had and what we were spending, for every great victory there was some utter dross to balance it, counter attacking at home pretty much every game FFS

problem is the shite we've had since has put an even rosier tint on everything, sunderland will finish above us, no doubt IMO but no way in hell will he get them 6th or win anything with them

[thetrees]

You wanted him sacked and he then went on to get The highest points total we've had in a 38 game season and got to a semi and a final.

Ah, there's no failure like a glorious failure.

Mike Bassett would have done a better job than O'Neill with the same backing.

[Stevo985]

Winning is entertaining. If you insist that MON's style of football and mcLeish's were so similar (they're not), then the main key difference is success.

If mcLeish was successful with his style then it would be a lot more entertaining.

[heystally!]

Even if MON and McLeish have similar styles, there is a distinct difference. Under MON we were used to winning games, or at least being competitive. We're seeing that far less often under McLeish.

You can argue that MON had more time to get to that stage, but I think MON started with a worse squad than McLeish has now. If MON had this squad and got these results at the start of his reign I'd be equally critical of the results.

[markavfc40]

You wanted him sacked and he then went on to get The highest points total we've had in a 38 game season and got to a semi and a final.

Ah, there's no failure like a glorious failure.

Mike Bassett would have done a better job than O'Neill with the same backing.

He achieved about par for the course. What was his net spend in 4 years? I'd hazard a guess at 60 - 80 mill. You take in to account the 30mill+ profit we have since made on Milner, Young and Downing and it would be way less.

This was also our wage bill in comparison to league finishes:

In 07/08 - 8th highest wages, finished 6th.

In 08/09 - 8th highest wages, finished 6th.

In 09/10 - 6th highest wages, finished 6th.

He certainly didn't fail. In fact in terms of wages to league finishes he over achieved...twice.

[Hanky]

I'm no particular massive fan of O'Neill now, or have a particular hatred either but I find the claims that he and McLeish are no different, ludicrous. I just don't see any evidence to suggest otherwise.

I often thought it was a myth that we were poor at home, certainly we had our share of frustrating games for sure, and our record suggests we were set up to be a much better away team. However I could never see McLeish coming up with some of the performances O'Neill had at home, I'm sure a lot of examples have been given above. We played some really good stuff at times and the team goal Gabby scored against Bolton was tremendous.

I think we had brilliant times and seasons under O'Neill, why he left seems a mystery to me and doubt we will ever find out. It is also true that I think we wasted money (although more on wages rather than players) but that was the fault of himself and also the owner.

I question whether McLeish has it in him to manage here, the last three performances have been encouraging and I thought he may prove me wrong, but then we go back to turgid, unorganised performances like Monday

One thing I'll say about O'Neill (and his backroom staff), he sure knew how to keep a team organised. I'm sure I'll be pointed to the Chelsea 7-1 but that brilliant away record we had towards the end of 2008 and at the start of 09/10 speaks volumes for me (and I might add the same defence as we had yesterday). Under McLeish the back four have been all over the place and seems clear to me that they are not being organised in their shape.]

I could go on about the comparisons of McLeish and O'Neill, but for me there are very little. I agree to an extent with posters that MON has his limits as a manager and I don't think he is the 'messiah', but he was bloody good for long periods while being here.

[briny_ear]

MON, Alex McLeish, no different.

That's a relief, then. We can look forward to three 6th places in a row and some European games.

[TheSufferingVilla]

Anyhoo, for those bored enough to read it here's my breakdown of MON's transfer activity:

Stiliyan Petrov (Celtic, £6.5m) Excellent Signing worth every penny.

Didier Agathe (Celtic, Free) Failure but cost nothing.

Chris Sutton (Celtic, Free) Good stop gap signing, unlucky to get a career ending injury whilest at Villa.

John Carew (Lyon, Swap) Considering it was a swap deal for that tool Baros, Carew was an excellent signing, excited the fanbase and scored some important goals.

Ashley Young (Watford, £9.65m) One of the best signings any Villa manager has made.

Shaun Maloney (Celtic, £1.1m) An inexpensive gamble, produced a couple of great performances and some lousy ones before seperation from his mammy syndrome sent him back up North.

Moustapha Salifou (FC Wil, Undisc) Bizarre signing but thankfully cost feck all

Zat Knight (Fulham, £3.5m) On paper looked good, English international and a Villa fan to boot for a low fee, believe it or not we made a tidy profit on him and got some decent performances while he was here

Harry Forrester (Watford, £250 000) Who?

Eric Lichaj (Unattached, Free) Jury is still out.

Marlon Harewood (West Ham, £3.5m) Strange signing, you could almost call him the poor mans Heskey. At the time it looked like it could be a shrewd bit of business after all he did bag 14 Premiership goals a season before but he certainly proved to be a flop.

Nigel Reo-Coker (West Ham £8.5m) Nobody divides opinion quite like Reo, as club captain he led West Ham through Promotion to the FA Cup final and for all purposes it looked like a soliddeal but Reo and MON were constantly at war with one another. Still he played over a hundred times for Villa so certainly he can't be labelled a flop.

Wayne Routledge (Tottenham, £1.5m) Inexpensive flop, who like all former players came back to haunt us with his goal on Monday. FFS.

Curtis Davies (WBA, £10m) Expensive flop, in part due to injury, looked good at times, pub player at others and arrived as part of some puzzling loan to buy contract that we were oblidged to execute despite him getting crocked before becomming officially our player.

Steve Sidwell (Chelsea £5.5m) Ginger Flop. Went missing on arrival, still has not been found.

Brad Friedel (Blackburn, £2.5m) Excellent signing, served us very well

Brad Guzan (Chivas US, £1m) Solid number 2, for a reasonable price.

Nicky Shorey (Reading, £4m) Garbage

Luke Young (Middlesbrough, £5m) Excellent player, produced many fine performances out of position.

Carlos Cuellar (Rangers £7.8m) I like and rate Carlos, certainly I think he's had a raw deal at Villa in part due to MON playing him out of position for extended periods but for the price we paid, not a terrible deal.

James Milner (Newcastle, £12m) Many people thought 12 million was too much for a then unproven player. In the end we doubled our money lost our best player which in part most likely led to O'Neills departure.

Emile Heskey (Wigan £3.5m) Good ****.

Stewart Downing (Middlesbrough £10m) 10 million for a crocked player sounded like madness and for the first season it appeared so until he finally found his form. We doubled our money so Downing has to be considered a superb bit of transfer business.

Fabian Delph (Leeds United £6m) Jury still out Delph remember suffered a near career ending knee injury. He may still come good but I wouldn't rate this as a poor signing, time will tell.

Habib Beye (£2m) Shit signing, shit player the club gave big wages to only for MON to not bother using.

Andy Marshall (free agent) Who cares

Stephen Warnock (£6m) Good player playing well this season, Houllier didn't like him for whatever childish reason but it's hard to know if MON would have gotten the best out of him had he stayed. the transfer fee includes the England International surcharge

James Collins (West Ham United, £5m) I really can't decide if he's worth the money or not.

Richard Dunne (Manchester City, £6m) City's captain and 4 time player of the season, personally I think he's one of the best defenders in the league and worth every penny.

So from all that I reckon 8 really excellent signings: Petrov, L Young, A Young, Carew(considering the circumstances), Milner, Friedel, Downing, Dunne.

5 Good signings: Knight(Made a profit), Reo-Coker, Guzan, Cuellar, Warnock.

1 Still to be determined signing: Delph.

1 I can't make my mind up about: Collins.

6 Brutal signings: Harewood, Davies, Sidwell, Shorey, Heskey, Beye.

The rest were short loans or gambles that cost **** all.

Isn't as bad as some people make out is it?

Couple it with the deadwood MON had to clear out:

Kevin Phillips, Matthieu Berson, Ulises De La Cruz, Peter Whittingham, Eric Djemba Djemba, Milan Baros, Mark Delaney (Sadly retired), Juan Pablo Angel, Liam Ridgewell, Jlloyd Samuel, Lee Hendrie, Steven Davis, Aaron Hughes, Gavin McCann, Gary Cahill (Terrible decision), Luke Moore, Olof Mellberg(Legend), Patrick Berger, Thomas Sorensen, Gareth Barry (word removed), Martin Laursen (retired), Craig Gardner.

You can paint his tenure in as many layers of shit as you like but at the end of the day he built a competitive team from a load of rubbish and his biggest purchases all turned a major profit.

[Zatman]

We can look forward to three 6th places in a row and some European games.

think we had 2 meaningful european games. Ajax adn CSKA at home

[briny_ear]

We can look forward to three 6th places in a row and some European games.

think we had 2 meaningful european games. Ajax adn CSKA at home

So 2 more than we can look forward to now...

[Zatman]

We have already been to Swansea

[Brumstopdogs]

Sunderland winning again.

[Zatman]

he hasnt actually beaten any teams Houllier didnt :s

[Brumstopdogs]

2-0 to Sunderland!