The, he's finally GONE! Tell us your thoughts Thread

[brummybloke]

Ok then, tell me which parts of that last post is false then? Dont even get me started on the irony of you calling me a troll. Seeing as you like facts;

He has over 90 games of premiership experience: fact

He won a trophy: fact

MON did not: fact

He has not had the proper time or the money to craft his own team: fact

last season he won 8 games in 38 the premier league

season before in the premier league won 13 in 38 the premier league

season before in the premier league won 5 in 24

so then lets get an avarage for G C in the premier league

played 100 won 26

oooofffff

and if we add in the villa stats

played 24 won 6

pretty much identical results spanning over 4 seasons

1 win in 4 near enough

how is it people are still defending him?

he has a worse record than DOL who got 37 wins in 3 seasons

oh dear

DOL = 1 win in a fraction over 3 games ( 3.08)

G C = 1 win in a little under 4 games (3.85)

double ooooooof

he won a trophy? yep at what cost? relegation? 35 million pounds cash lost plus sponsorship plus other losses of gate receipts and so on

what would you take?

MON did win a trophy ? no he also never a club relegated.

why would you give him more time and another season? 3 seasons and a win ratio which for 2 different teams has not changed, is more than enough evidence things wont get any better

had to edit as my maths skilllz were that of a squashed frog

[pacbuddies]

Eck has made 5 signings. Keane, Jenas, Given, Hutton and N'Zogbia

Keane is a very short term loan (not our player) and will be gone in about 2 weeks (or 2 games depending upon how you look at it).

Jenas was also a loan (not our player), admittedly it was supposed to be for a whole season, but he has gone.

So in effect the only 'real' signings McLeish has made are Given, Hutton and N'Zogbia.

The first one mentioned is a good goalkeeper, the second one is an average full back and the third one has ability but has yet to show it for a whole game yet alone game after game.

[Mantis]

NDINLT, are you Oliver Holt or something? Give it a rest ffs. Have a tug or something and just relax man.

This topic has turned into the remnants of one of Paul Faulkners morning dumps.

I for one think McLeish is a decent man with proven premiership experience, lets just wait and see what happens in the summer once he has a bit of moolah to shape the team to what he wants it to be.

LOOOOOL.

What proven Premier League experience? Are you THE Paul Faulkner by any chance? And we've seen how he has shaped teams. Rangers got 3rd in the league and SHA got relegated despite having a big net spend.

You dont manage a team for over 90 games in the premiership without learning or picking up experience along the way. Correct me if im wrong but he even won a trophy did he not, how many did MON win again?

He just needs the fans to actually get behind him, get rid of the deadwood, some time to bring in the players he needs and the confidence will improve then the results will surely follow. Im sure lerner - a successful businessman billionaire knows what he is doing.

I don't understand this "give McLeish more time" argument. So far he's done a shit job and he's proven very recently that when given time things don't get better. Why on Earth should he be given more time when you take these things into consideration?

[Swerbs]

I don't understand this "give McLeish more time" argument. So far he's done a shit job and he's proven very recently that when given time things don't get better. Why on Earth should he be given more time when you take these things into consideration?

In your opinion how much time should a manager be given when taking over a new team?

[Mantis]

I don't understand this "give McLeish more time" argument. So far he's done a shit job and he's proven very recently that when given time things don't get better. Why on Earth should he be given more time when you take these things into consideration?

In your opinion how much time should a manager be given when taking over a new team?

That would depend on a number of different variables.

[Zatman]

I don't understand this "give McLeish more time" argument. So far he's done a shit job and he's proven very recently that when given time things don't get better. Why on Earth should he be given more time when you take these things into consideration?

but you wanted to give Houllier more time. Being a bit hypocritical are we

[Mantis]

I don't understand this "give McLeish more time" argument. So far he's done a shit job and he's proven very recently that when given time things don't get better. Why on Earth should he be given more time when you take these things into consideration?

but you wanted to give Houllier more time. Being a bit hypocritical are we

That's not hypocritical in the slightest.

I wanted to give Houllier more time because unlike McLeish he didn't get a pre-season and came in when the season had already started and there was a lot of squad upheaval. Add in the ridiculous injury crisis and a fair few games where I honestly thought we were unlucky not to win and it's clear that he wasn't exactly working in an ideal situation. He also did well with Liverpool and won them things. I'm not trying to make excuses, these are just my reasons for wanting to give him more time.

McLeish? While he isn't working under great circumstances (the sales of Young and Downing, inheriting a piss poor defence) I think he's had it far easier than Houllier. He had a pre-season, he had money to buy his own players (admittedly not a great deal) and he was supported by the fans in the beginning. He hasn't had any kind of injury crisis either and we do have some good attacking players that Houllier didn't have or only had for half a season. However, despite all this he's doing just as bad a job as Houllier did if not worse. We got dumped out of both cups earlier, are sitting on the same number of points as last season and have served up just as much gutless tripe as last season. We've also won three times at home this season in the league, with our last home win being over three months ago!

Of course, many fans (myself included) would be prepared to give him more time were it not for the job he did at SHA. True, he won them a cup but in that same season he got them relegated from a position of relative safety. This was after finishing 9th the season before as well. You'd think he'd at least be able to keep them up the season after that. You only have to look at the end of last season where we fought our way up to 9th once things got serious where as SHA under McLeish dropped like a stone. They didn't even go down fighting either. The team that was relegated last season was his team. He'd been there for 3 and a half years. SHA gave him time and they paid for it.

[Rob182]

Personally, I'd like to see McLeish given some money in the summer and let him build his own team. I can't see Lerner sacking him and I don't see us being relegated, so instead of having another average year with ageing players, I'll happily see what McLeish can do with some money.

His transfers for us having been bad imo.

Given - excellent signing

N'Zogbia - the majority of VT saw him as the obvious replacement for Young or Downing.

Hutton - personally, I thought he'd be a good signing. I remember him scoring a few decent goals for Spurs, but it hasn't happened for him and this is Eck's main downfall in the market with Villa (other than Jenas - but pacbuddies says we can't use that example because it's not a real signing :winkold:)

[Paddywhack]

[L6HolteEnder]

What we need to get is a poll it halfway through the season. Who still wants to give him time and who wants him gone.

[DelboyVilla]

Personally, I'd like to see McLeish given some money in the summer and let him build his own team. I can't see Lerner sacking him and I don't see us being relegated, so instead of having another average year with ageing players, I'll happily see what McLeish can do with some money.

His transfers for us having been bad imo.

Given - excellent signing

N'Zogbia - the majority of VT saw him as the obvious replacement for Young or Downing.

Hutton - personally, I thought he'd be a good signing. I remember him scoring a few decent goals for Spurs, but it hasn't happened for him and this is Eck's main downfall in the market with Villa (other than Jenas - but pacbuddies says we can't use that example because it's not a real signing :winkold:)

How come all the Pro-AMer's seem to think that we are too good to go down? Personally I am very worried because from a very similar position last year our manager took his previous side down as other 'poorer' sides were able to up their games. This is why I would get rid now!

He has had a summer and 2/3's of a season to sort out the defence and all he has done is replaced one very good full back with one of the worst I have seen at VP. I am sure that with a bit of wheeler dealing, proper training at BMH and rotation of the squad that our defensive woes could have been eased? AM seems to have taken the same attitude as GH when it comes to the defence? i.e. lot's of talk and absolutely no action.

I just want him out before he does any more damage and seeing his working on a day to day basis is far worse than the absolute rubbish I expected to see. The shout of Curbs is a decent one when you look at what is available. He has a connection to the club, his play is fairly entertaining, he knows how to get the best out of DBent and he is used to the constraints of working within a tight budget. Let's give him a contract till the end of the season with the option for a 2 year extension, what have we to lose? We have to ensure that we act before it's too late!

[Paddywhack]

How come all the Pro-AMer's...

There's that word again.

[LockStockVilla]

How come all the Pro-AMer's seem to think that we are too good to go down? Personally I am very worried because from a very similar position last year our manager took his previous side down as other 'poorer' sides were able to up their games. This is why I would get rid now!

As an 'empathetic supporter' regarding McLeish (not necessarily Pro-Am as people generally take it as) I can honestly say I do not see any merit in the argument that we are too good to be relegated...simply if we get sucked down into the relegation dogfight in a few games time it only gets more and more difficult and without any sort of positivity around the club, everything gets that much harder. I would say if come the Wigan and Blackburn matches, if we fail to win either, then people can start to hit the panic button.

However, the question begs itself what exactly would we do? No matter what people say, KMac has no extended track record, so putting the reins in his hands would be a major gamble. Outside of that who would we possibly bring in...Capello??? I mean there aren't many reasonable options here at the present time but get behind the team and manager.

[JulieB]

It was an unwise PR decision to sign him...but I think Lerner had one eye on the unruly dressing room needing some sorting out.

I'm more angry with MON for walking out still when the going was about to get tough than ever I would be over Lerner or McLeish.

At this stage McLeish has my support - we are improving as a team the longer the season goes on and what's more he's bringing

through the young talent we should rightly be proud of. You can't say we're playing negative football at all, that's simply untrue.

What I'd say is that at times the team are playing passionless football but I think that's down to some of the players more than

the manager because again you can't complain about McLeish not being passionate - he absolutely kicks every ball with them on the touchline.

[CannockVillan]

This is all getting too ridiculous.

Just because he managed SHA he's not good enough.

He went down with SHA largely because after the cup win he lost a large number of first team players from his squad. I honestly think they would still be in this league had that not happened. Bear in mind that they finished 9th and last year we ended up 9th but were in a relegation battle until the penultimate game of the season when only secured our prem status by beating arsenal. 6 points in the last 2 games and we shot up to 9th!!!!!!!!!!!!! Paepring over the obvious cracks if you ask me. Thise cracks are still here and McLeis has to be given time to address these. We're not Man City who can leave a 35m striker out of the squad becuase they don't like him anymore.

He hasn't had money to spend (he's replaced people not built his own swuad) and what he has spent has actually been good imho.

As Rob182 said all of his signings were generally welcomed as good signings with maybe a question mark over hutton.

Everyone on this sight works off hindsight. In hindsight Nzogbia hasn't performed as we would have liked, or expected, but has ashley young hit the heights at ManU? No one thought it was a bad signing and I still don't think it is.

People say he's playing in the wrong position but has anyone thought thst perhaps this is because Mcleish feels he can't yet play him in his favoured position because he needs him elsewhere on the pitch becuase we have a small squad?

Hutton has been poor but the guy hadn't played in god knows how longs never mind the move to a new club. Will he come good, i'm not convinced, but was it a bad signing? Who else was available for a right back position that we could have got?

Given quite simply has been excellent.

Plus he has to work with a squad that:

1. is not his squad (he's not even had one season in the position to stamp his mark on things)

2. in which there seems to be a few cliques and divisions.

He's here to stay gents so get used to it. The club (no doubt under his guidance) has shifted out a number of high earners from the wage bill this year and a few more will go in the summer.

Those on what I call MON contracts with a year or two left will be harder to shift but no doubt we will try if he feels any of them are being disruptive. Whether he can shift them is another matter (and not his fault if he can't).

I truly feel we will buy this summer and McLeish will stamp his own mark on the team a bit more. How much - I don't know. I'll judge him more next season when it's less of an O'Neill team (which frankly it still is) and more of a McLeish one.

If the football is poor at that time then he'll start to lose my support (as any manager would). in the mean time give the man a break and support your team through thick and thin.

For me he's making all the right noises but perhaps is being hampered by one or two seniors who think they are indispensible. They seem to want to play their way instead of his way. Can he drop them? With our squad, probably not.

A few players need shifting. Give him a chance to make it his team.

[Foxy1]

It was an unwise PR decision to sign him...but I think Lerner had one eye on the unruly dressing room needing some sorting out.

I'm more angry with MON for walking out still when the going was about to get tough than ever I would be over Lerner or McLeish.

At this stage McLeish has my support - we are improving as a team the longer the season goes on and what's more he's bringing

through the young talent we should rightly be proud of. You can't say we're playing negative football at all, that's simply untrue.

What I'd say is that at times the team are playing passionless football but I think that's down to some of the players more than

the manager because again you can't complain about McLeish not being passionate - he absolutely kicks every ball with them on the touchline.

Good post, agree with this

We're actually playing some good stuff, results are not always coming but we were unlucky against Toon and Arsenal.

Ecks biggest problem is some of the toxic personalities and error prone technically inept defenders that he has inherited. I don't go along with the view that Hutton is shite , he's really improved in recent weeks.

[UpTheVilla26]

This is all getting too ridiculous.

Just because he managed SHA he's not good enough.

He went down with SHA largely because after the cup win he lost a large number of first team players from his squad. I honestly think they would still be in this league had that not happened. Bear in mind that they finished 9th and last year we ended up 9th but were in a relegation battle until the penultimate game of the season when only secured our prem status by beating arsenal. 6 points in the last 2 games and we shot up to 9th!!!!!!!!!!!!! Papering over the obvious cracks if you ask me. Thise cracks are still here and McLeis has to be given time to address these. We're not Man City who can leave a 35m striker out of the squad becuase they don't like him anymore.

He hasn't had money to spend (he's replaced people not built his own swuad) and what he has spent has actually been good imho.

As Rob182 said all of his signings were generally welcomed as good signings with maybe a question mark over hutton.

Everyone on this sight works off hindsight. In hindsight Nzogbia hasn't performed as we would have liked, or expected, but has ashley young hit the heights at ManU? No one thought it was a bad signing and I still don't think it is.

People say he's playing in the wrong position but has anyone thought thst perhaps this is because Mcleish feels he can't yet play him in his favoured position because he needs him elsewhere on the pitch becuase we have a small squad?

Hutton has been poor but the guy hadn't played in god knows how longs never mind the move to a new club. Will he come good, i'm not convinced, but was it a bad signing? Who else was available for a right back position that we could have got?

Given quite simply has been excellent.

Plus he has to work with a squad that:

1. is not his squad (he's not even had one season in the position to stamp his mark on things)

2. in which there seems to be a few cliques and divisions.

He's here to stay gents so get used to it. The club (no doubt under his guidance) has shifted out a number of high earners from the wage bill this year and a few more will go in the summer.

Those on what I call MON contracts with a year or two left will be harder to shift but no doubt we will try if he feels any of them are being disruptive. Whether he can shift them is another matter (and not his fault if he can't).

I truly feel we will buy this summer and McLeish will stamp his own mark on the team a bit more. How much - I don't know. I'll judge him more next season when it's less of an O'Neill team (which frankly it still is) and more of a McLeish one.

If the football is poor at that time then he'll start to lose my support (as any manager would). in the mean time give the man a break and support your team through thick and thin.

For me he's making all the right noises but perhaps is being hampered by one or two seniors who think they are indispensible. They seem to want to play their way instead of his way. Can he drop them? With our squad, probably not.

A few players need shifting. Give him a chance to make it his team.

All the right noises? He said after the Arsenal defeat 'we lacked experience' yet our team had more experience than the Arsenal team.

He harps on about the defence yet the only change he has made to it, despite countless errors by at least 3 of the back four, has been enforced due to Collins being injured.

He says he likes 'attacking football' yet last week against Newcastle, after a decent first half, we resort to long ball and he then starts with his hopeless substitutions and has no idea how to re-adjust his tactics to change the game.

Letting him 'build' his own team here would be a disaster. We'd end up a dog-of-war team with the little creative flair we have stifled in favour of his 'let's see if we can nick a goal then put 10 behind the ball' tactics.

Mcleish is exactly the same as Neil Warnock. A decent Championship manager but nothing more. His record in the Prem is crap. For the guy spouting about facts, here is one...

HE GOT A TEAM RELEGATED TWICE

Name me another Premiership manager who has this on their CV and is currently managing a top flight club?

He should not be anywhere near Villa Park. He can give it all the talk he wants in press conferences but press conferences don't win matches. Motivating your team, sorting out a completely shot defence and having a bit of tactical know-how wins matches. He can't do any of this.

As for the woman saying 'performances are improving'. How? If we had 'improved' then results would be better, surely? The win at Chelsea was a fluke, Wolves would probably have got a draw at least if it wasn't for Henry being stupid and beyond that we have been a complete joke. When we were 2-0 up at Arsenal, I knew we'd loose as soon as that first goal went in. Not because I'm psychic but because Mcleish has no answer when a team changes their style of play against us. By constantly hoofing the ball 60 yards up the pitch (towards a forward who can't hold it up) you are just recycling the ball back to the opposition team. When that opposition team can actually string passed together, take note Mcleish, by law of average they will create chances and score goals.

People who continue to justify him being here IMO have given up. He should be sacked now. Get Curbs in. He's available, did well at Charlton until they had to start selling (due to bigger financial problems than we have) and knows this club and what it means to be a Villa player.

That would be too easy though for our thick board.

[samclarke2010]

people who say he's doing a bad job are deffinatly wrong.

watch all our goals conceded this season and look how many of them are stupid defensive errors, he must be ripping his hair out.

and for those of you who say you have given him a chance think about this;

last season i heard "houlliers claret and blue army" coming from the holte end on multiple occasions.

this season i have not heard mcleish's name sung once - because he came from the blues.

the exact reason why people dont like him and why people listen to silly things that blues fans say, like: "hes negative" and "he sits back when hes in the lead"

and the exact reason why when we win its the players who've done well and when we lose its all the managers fault.

why cant any of you just realise hes here and support the team properly rather than making them scared and nervous to touch the ball at home cause they know that the fans are just waiting for a reason to whinge and cry about the managers poor skills.

as for his premier league record, have you seen the squad he had to play with over his time??

he tried to make signings such as hleb and bentley, ok only on loan but they didnt work out and he was left with an extremely mediocre squad.

[sticky2000]

This is all getting too ridiculous.

Just because he managed SHA he's not good enough.

He went down with SHA largely because after the cup win he lost a large number of first team players from his squad. I honestly think they would still be in this league had that not happened. Bear in mind that they finished 9th and last year we ended up 9th but were in a relegation battle until the penultimate game of the season when only secured our prem status by beating arsenal. 6 points in the last 2 games and we shot up to 9th!!!!!!!!!!!!! Papering over the obvious cracks if you ask me. Thise cracks are still here and McLeis has to be given time to address these. We're not Man City who can leave a 35m striker out of the squad becuase they don't like him anymore.

He hasn't had money to spend (he's replaced people not built his own swuad) and what he has spent has actually been good imho.

As Rob182 said all of his signings were generally welcomed as good signings with maybe a question mark over hutton.

Everyone on this sight works off hindsight. In hindsight Nzogbia hasn't performed as we would have liked, or expected, but has ashley young hit the heights at ManU? No one thought it was a bad signing and I still don't think it is.

People say he's playing in the wrong position but has anyone thought thst perhaps this is because Mcleish feels he can't yet play him in his favoured position because he needs him elsewhere on the pitch becuase we have a small squad?

Hutton has been poor but the guy hadn't played in god knows how longs never mind the move to a new club. Will he come good, i'm not convinced, but was it a bad signing? Who else was available for a right back position that we could have got?

Given quite simply has been excellent.

Plus he has to work with a squad that:

1. is not his squad (he's not even had one season in the position to stamp his mark on things)

2. in which there seems to be a few cliques and divisions.

He's here to stay gents so get used to it. The club (no doubt under his guidance) has shifted out a number of high earners from the wage bill this year and a few more will go in the summer.

Those on what I call MON contracts with a year or two left will be harder to shift but no doubt we will try if he feels any of them are being disruptive. Whether he can shift them is another matter (and not his fault if he can't).

I truly feel we will buy this summer and McLeish will stamp his own mark on the team a bit more. How much - I don't know. I'll judge him more next season when it's less of an O'Neill team (which frankly it still is) and more of a McLeish one.

If the football is poor at that time then he'll start to lose my support (as any manager would). in the mean time give the man a break and support your team through thick and thin.

For me he's making all the right noises but perhaps is being hampered by one or two seniors who think they are indispensible. They seem to want to play their way instead of his way. Can he drop them? With our squad, probably not.

A few players need shifting. Give him a chance to make it his team.

All the right noises? He said after the Arsenal defeat 'we lacked experience' yet our team had more experience than the Arsenal team.

He harps on about the defence yet the only change he has made to it, despite countless errors by at least 3 of the back four, has been enforced due to Collins being injured.

He says he likes 'attacking football' yet last week against Newcastle, after a decent first half, we resort to long ball and he then starts with his hopeless substitutions and has no idea how to re-adjust his tactics to change the game.

Letting him 'build' his own team here would be a disaster. We'd end up a dog-of-war team with the little creative flair we have stifled in favour of his 'let's see if we can nick a goal then put 10 behind the ball' tactics.

Mcleish is exactly the same as Neil Warnock. A decent Championship manager but nothing more. His record in the Prem is crap. For the guy spouting about facts, here is one...

HE GOT A TEAM RELEGATED TWICE

Name me another Premiership manager who has this on their CV and is currently managing a top flight club?

He should not be anywhere near Villa Park. He can give it all the talk he wants in press conferences but press conferences don't win matches. Motivating your team, sorting out a completely shot defence and having a bit of tactical know-how wins matches. He can't do any of this.

As for the woman saying 'performances are improving'. How? If we had 'improved' then results would be better, surely? The win at Chelsea was a fluke, Wolves would probably have got a draw at least if it wasn't for Henry being stupid and beyond that we have been a complete joke. When we were 2-0 up at Arsenal, I knew we'd loose as soon as that first goal went in. Not because I'm psychic but because Mcleish has no answer when a team changes their style of play against us. By constantly hoofing the ball 60 yards up the pitch (towards a forward who can't hold it up) you are just recycling the ball back to the opposition team. When that opposition team can actually string passed together, take note Mcleish, by law of average they will create chances and score goals.

People who continue to justify him being here IMO have given up. He should be sacked now. Get Curbs in. He's available, did well at Charlton until they had to start selling (due to bigger financial problems than we have) and knows this club and what it means to be a Villa player.

That would be too easy though for our thick board.

Excellent post.

Also:

1: Newcastle game, 1-1 at half time after 'some' attacking play. Second half, the midfield is behind the half way line from our goal kicks. Now that's a defensive manager setting out for a draw when they were there for the taking. How big a gap do you want between the midfield and forwards when we're hoofing it up front to forwards who thrive on midfield assistance?

2: Petrov AND Clark in the middle of the pitch. 2 defensive minded midfielders who's first thought is the safe ball backwards, to a defender who then lumps it up top again. Everyone saw when Bannan came on, his brilliant passing and vision to get the ball moving up top and into the feet of the strikers.

3: Give Gardner a go. A kid with a physical presence who will go box to box repeatedly, looking to score and mopping up losse balls from the opposition.

Rant over.

[Paddywhack]

People who continue to justify him being here IMO have given up.

Holte End Season Ticket Holder here. I'm going down still, singing at the top of my voice and supporting the team. Didn't realise that was classed as giving up. I didn't know I was doing anything wrong to be honest.