NurembergVillan Posted December 21, 2011 Moderator Share Posted December 21, 2011 Clearly i need to be more 'up to date' on political correctness, but it's a shame that you try to make it out to be something more. Apologies if that's the way it's come across. That's certainly not my intention - it was a quick reply to express that, to me at least, "negro" is an outdated derogatory term. I'm 32 and associate that and the word "honky" with films from the 70s. If I was sitting in a talent planning meeting at work and suggested we were successful with racial equality because we had a good balance of caucasians and negroes I'd likely get fired. It's just not a word that is in the modern vocabulary. Luis Suarez is 24 so there can be no excuses for him not understanding that using race to tag someone is no longer acceptable. I've not been to Uruguay so can't say whether "negrito" (which is the term he has supposedly admitted to using) is acceptable there (as he's supposedly used in his defence). Internet research, though - thus likely complete rubbish - indicates that in Uruguay being intoxicated is a valid excuse for a car accident rather than a cause for punishment (perhaps this is how Barry Bannanez avoided jail?), and it is still legal to take part in a pistol duel so long as both parties are blood donors. As Suarez' nickname is El Pistolero perhaps he'll propose to the FA that they sort this out in a manner more befitting his home country? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted December 21, 2011 Moderator Share Posted December 21, 2011 Dangerous ground here, but I do think an 8 game ban seems excessivly harsh. You regularly see players making homophobic gestures towards each, other which is every bit as bad, yet this goes completely unpunished. That the FA don't do enough about homophobia in the game isn't a reason to be softer on racism too. It should be the other way around - racism is seemingly under more control than 20 years ago, now get homophobia sorted. Britain (English FA) tend to see themselves as a shining light in the fight against racism (and have done an incredible job over the last 30 or so years), but is it fair to expect someone from South America to fully appreciate this stance within 12 months of arriving in the country? He also lived in the Netherlands for 5 years and they're an even more liberal country than we are so there's no excuse really. Unless, like myself when living there, he found the Christmas tradition of Zwarte Piet somewhat confusing. My point is that I just don't think it's fair to impose our impecably high standards on an individual from a country who perhaps dont see racism as such an important issue. It's the equivalent of a Briton going and playing in country who get incredibly offended by comments regarding a person's height and then making fun of Peter Crouch. Which countries are these then? I couldn't name you a single country where people are offended by a person's height. I know you're not suggesting this is a real situation, you're implying cultural nuances, but racism is something which is unacceptable in most countries on Earth these days. Black people spent generations being treated like shit and most countries and societies have made a concerted effort to stamp it out. Only a simpleton could roll up to live in England in 2011 and think that casual racism might be acceptable and the fact that it isn't is merely a well-hidden cultural nuance. An enforced program of education and rehabilitation would surely have been more beneficial. Perhaps forcing Suarez & Liverpool to make some kind of apology. This, and a ban. And I'd fine Liverpool for their response too. Pompous, self-righteous arseholes. I wonder if their statement would've been so emphatic if it was a player less important to his side's fortunes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shillzz Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I absolutely agree on everything you say Nuremberg Villan, and your post makes for a very good response. Please dont think I'm trying to defend Suarez, but am just simply trying to understand the reasons behind his actions. I believe there is always a reason behind everyone's actions, and it's important to understand the cause of such ignorance as well as simply punishing it. That said, I would certainly question the length of the ban and whether it should have been re-balanced with something positive, an 8 game ban will achieve very little. If Suarez is ignorant about racism, as seems to be the case, then I just think there are better ways of dealing with it. I'd bet there arent many Liverpool fans out there this morning with anything particularly positive to say about the FA or Patrice Evra. If anything, this ban will have just stirred things up further, and will simply result in Liverpool being forced to back racism in an attempt to get the ban reduced. If Kenny, Suarez & The FA had come out with some kind of joint statement, accepting a reasonable ban and apologising for Luis' behaviour, then I think the footballing world would have benefitted more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 8 games is no deterrent, it should really have been a 12 month ban minimum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted December 21, 2011 Moderator Share Posted December 21, 2011 I absolutely agree on everything you say Nuremberg Villan, and your post makes for a very good response. Please dont think I'm trying to defend Suarez, but am just simply trying to understand the reasons behind his actions. I believe there is always a reason behind everyone's actions, and it's important to understand the cause of such ignorance as well as simply punishing it. Cheers mate. I didn't for one minute think you were trying to defend him - I agree that it's important to fully understand something if you're going to eradicate it. That said, I would certainly question the length of the ban and whether it should have been re-balanced with something positive, an 8 game ban will achieve very little. I wonder how much of Liverpool's initial response to the investigation has impacted the outcome... If Suarez is ignorant about racism, as seems to be the case, then I just think there are better ways of dealing with it. I'd bet there arent many Liverpool fans out there this morning with anything particularly positive to say about the FA or Patrice Evra. If anything, this ban will have just stirred things up further, and will simply result in Liverpool being forced to back racism in an attempt to get the ban reduced. If Kenny, Suarez & The FA had come out with some kind of joint statement, accepting a reasonable ban and apologising for Luis' behaviour, then I think the footballing world would have benefitted more. The key thing is - is he truly ignorant about racism or was it just a handy excuse? Liverpool's statement last night was loaded with childish reasons as to why Suarez couldn't possibly be a racist, missing the point in spectacular fashion. In my mind there was no way Dalglish or Liverpool could have done what you suggest as they were so staunch in their initial defence, and Dalglish continued to be for the weeks that followed. There was never any suggestion that they were open to getting to the bottom of it, it was always "he's done nothing wrong" and fingers in the ears. From an LFC point of view the whole thing has been like a one-eyed parent defending the behaviour of their horrible child regardless of what said child has done. They've come out of this with less credit than Suarez, for me. In many respects this whole sorry affair is representative of so many of the ills of modern society - casual racism, "my child can do no wrong", moral indignation, mass hysteria, blinkered views and a fundamental belief that the very authority powered to enforce the laws and morals on society is incapable of doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shillzz Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 The key thing is - is he truly ignorant about racism or was it just a handy excuse? Liverpool's statement last night was loaded with childish reasons as to why Suarez couldn't possibly be a racist, missing the point in spectacular fashion. I've not read Liverpool's statement, but for me, this is the main problem. Liverpool have now been forced to fight in the corner of someone found guilty of racism. If he'd been handed perhaps a 5 game ban then they may have been more willing to adopt a similar stance to that of our very own AVFC towards Bannan. Now we're just going to end up with thousands of Liverpool fans defending and/or justifying racism in any way possible. As you say though, the initial stance from Liverpool was every bit as bad as Blatter's comments from a few weeks ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarethRDR Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 That said, I have no problem with Liverpool and a chunk of their fans making themselves look like complete arsewipes. They do it on a regular basis anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eames Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 But the same rules apply to everybody. They have to. It will be interesting to see what happens to England's brave John Terry re: Anton Ferdinand though. The FA have really shafted themselves here..... Suarez and Evra shook hands after that "incident" and whether or not you accept the "Cultural differences" defence (I don't) they have now got themselves a real problem. The JT issue is currently with the police. When it does get to the FA if he is found guilty the FA HAVE to ban him, and for longer. They now also have to strip him of the national team captaincy and can have him nowhere near the Euros. Whoops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coda Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 If Suarez and Terry are banned I'm failing to see a downside in the resolution of two unsavoury incidents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Steve Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 It's amazing, reading some Liverpool fans reactions they fail to see how the term "negro" is racist despite it's historical references to slavery. Oh, we all know Liverpool fans love to scream and maintain victim-hood at the hands of the FA but they are merely following precedent with this ban. A month after the investigation began, the FA has ruled it has enough evidence to charge Suárez with an offence that, if proven, will lead to a substantial ban. A precedent was set in 2003 when John Mackie of Reading was banned for eight matches, five of which were suspended, after making racist remarks to the Sheffield United striker Carl Asaba. However, Mackie admitted that charge whereas Suárez is denying his, meaning he would almost certainly face tougher sanctions if he were found guilty. link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted December 21, 2011 VT Supporter Share Posted December 21, 2011 I think the only thing I have any issue with is quite how they've decided he's guilty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarethRDR Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 If Suarez and Terry are banned I'm failing to see a downside in the resolution of two unsavoury incidents. Too bloody right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Steve Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 It's not an FA conspiracy as Gordon Taylor points out "This was an independent commission experienced in law and football and they must have had compelling evidence, and it sends out a very strong message to the rest of the world. "I understand the point about cultural differences but if you come to this country all players have to abide by not just the laws of the game but the laws of the land as well. Referring to someone's skin colour has got to be offensive – it's self-evident. "No one can say the FA have ducked this issue and bearing in mind outcry in this country over Sepp Blatter's remarks it sends out an important message. This is a timely reminder for the FA, the PFA and the clubs to continue education programmes particularly for players coming from abroad: it is never right to make reference to a person's skin colour or nationality." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 It's not an FA conspiracy but it is. its against Liverpool . Probably also a FIFA, EU, NATO, Soviet conspiracy the way they are acting. some scouse idiot on Sky said if Suarez said same to a Wigan player he would have got away with it, jsut because it was a United player and they control the FA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarethRDR Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Luis Suárez can't be racist, he plays a Dark Elf on Skyrim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swerbs Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Luis Suárez can't be racist, his favourite member of boy band Blue was Simon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I see what you did there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legov Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 It's amazing, reading some Liverpool fans reactions they fail to see how the term "negro" is racist despite it's historical references to slavery. It's still used in many parts of the world. My mother, for instance, keeps referring to black people as such. It really is, in some places, not much of a racial epithet. Although I often make it a point myself to correct her and inform her about the potential for misunderstandings with the usage of the word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Steve Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Luis Suarez can't be racist, his favourite Star Wars character is Lando Calrissian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarethRDR Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Luis Suarez can't be racist, he listens to Lighthouse Family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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