Nigel Posted September 2, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted September 2, 2015 Shame about Cleverly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted September 2, 2015 Moderator Share Posted September 2, 2015 Let's have an Everton discussion. They keep popping up in other threads like the Spurs thread and the Where we'll finish thread. I think they're ahead of us. I think they've strengthened in the summer and I think they've successfully held on to a player that was sought out by a top 4 side. Looking through their squad, they may be a bit light up front if Lukaku gets injured (although not if he doesn't ...) but their squad is very strong defensively. Not just the defenders themselves but the protection they get in midfield. Unspectacular maybe, but very solid and will comfortably be midtable. Lennon is a good addition too and should reshuffle their midfield personnel to their benefit. I have a bet on with a Toffee who thinks they'll finish top 8. I can't see that happening (which is why I took the bet) although it's not impossible. Just highly unlikely. Thunks? Oh go on then, you've drawn me in... No question they are ahead of us, the fact they are far more experienced and settled ensures that even before you get into the quality of the squads. But have they really strengthened? They've signed/re-signed Lennon who was there for half of last season so I'm already kind of discounting him. Cleverley was a good signing but is now crocked. That leaves Holgate, Rodriguez and Mori the first I'd be amazed to see much in the first team this season and the other two are rather unknown quantities. In Mori they've signed a player that widely respected SA football expert Tim Vickery is already writing off. He is quoted as saying: "He does not have the quality, the pace or the physicality to survive in the Premier League. "Roberto Martinez has a blind spot when it comes to signing directly from South America. He dropped an almighty brick with Mauro Boselli at Wigan, who scored a total of zero Premier League goals." http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p031bjl6 So personally at best I'd say it remains to be seen if they've improved but probably fair to say they haven't. They are solid but not spectacular or exciting in anyway, they've absolutely no chance of top 8 in my view. None. So I'd say your bet is safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Darron Gibson banned for driving for hitting 3 cyclists while pissed. oh dear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted September 2, 2015 Moderator Share Posted September 2, 2015 i dont know what it is about Martinez but i find him really annoying ! I don't think the continuous bleating by Dave 'I broke my leg in the FA Cup' Whelan about RM being one of the best managers in the league helped. I don't mind RM but he isn't all he's cracked up to be. I think he can set his team up to retain possession well but defensively he's naive. He's got an FA cup in his cupboard that's argues against you. I think it's too early to be saying he not all he's cracked up to be. One good season and one bad/indifferent season at Everton and they appear to be inline for a good one this year. If he was English... but I shouldn't go there as it may attract some Daily Mail "readers" Yes he has a FA Cup winners medal, fair play to him. But that no more makes him a good manager than Macleish's League Cup medal. Both were incredible fortunate and I don't think either victory is an accurate testimony of their abilities. If he was English he would be called Bob Martin and he would probably be given half the respect he is given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 i dont know what it is about Martinez but i find him really annoying ! I don't think the continuous bleating by Dave 'I broke my leg in the FA Cup' Whelan about RM being one of the best managers in the league helped. I don't mind RM but he isn't all he's cracked up to be. I think he can set his team up to retain possession well but defensively he's naive. He's got an FA cup in his cupboard that's argues against you. I think it's too early to be saying he not all he's cracked up to be. One good season and one bad/indifferent season at Everton and they appear to be inline for a good one this year. If he was English... but I shouldn't go there as it may attract some Daily Mail "readers" Yes he has a FA Cup winners medal, fair play to him. But that no more makes him a good manager than Macleish's League Cup medal. Both were incredible fortunate and I don't think either victory is an accurate testimony of their abilities. If he was English he would be called Bob Martin and he would probably be given half the respect he is given. i did not know roberto martinez was translated in english as bob martin, learn something new everyday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Wigan are just a very small town club who punched above their weight for so long. I think they came up through the conference in the 70s. I think Martinez did a good job there and the FA Cup win will be always be there. He did a good job starting off what other managers have improved upon at Swansea and a great first season at everton but the europa league did count against their league performances last season. So I think we should judge him on this season to see whether he has improved Everton from the Moyes days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted September 2, 2015 Moderator Share Posted September 2, 2015 Wigan's history is impressive but it isn't Martinez's achievement although he contributed as a player. It was Jewell who took them from League Two to the Premier League and kept them there, then Bruce continued the good work. They were a fairly well established PL team when Martinez arrived. It was his in inability or refusal to change his style of play and be less idealistic that took them down. As for Swansea, he didn't start off their rise Kenny Jacket did although he can be credited with starting their style of play. Personally I thought him over rated before Everton and his time there has only strengthened that view for me. Seemingly quite a lot of Evertonians agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Think they're a bit like us around 2010 now. Been flirting and failing to get top 4 for so long now they've just given up now and stagnated. It's not a bad squad but so many old names in there you can't suddenly see a massive improvement. They won't be as bad as last season but they're a fair bit off top 6 now so I'll go for 10th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vandaq Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Not a fan of Martinez at all. I like their squad and I see them as one of the more respectable clubs in the PL right now. My guess is that they will finish 10th this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 (edited) Yes Trent but it was only a matter of time before they went back down. At least he left them with a major trophy. Look what they have done since! He will be defined by what he achieves at Everton. Fans expectations there are rather high for the size of club they are now! I think a top 8 finish is about par for them. If the supporters expect more than that they are being unrealistic. Edited September 2, 2015 by PaulC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted September 3, 2015 Moderator Share Posted September 3, 2015 Well this thread about the job he is doing now not the job he did at previous clubs. I think he has taken them backwards personally and I think they will be mid table this season. He isn't doing as good a job as Moyes so I understand why their fans aren't happy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 How long is Baines out for? I think Jagielka is on the decline personally. Barry likewise. Barkley is a fantastic talent but hates defending. If they stay pretty much injury free they will finish top 10. Lol @ Cleverley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artetasgirl Posted September 6, 2015 Visiting Supporter Share Posted September 6, 2015 I think this squad is stronger than last seasons. We've lost Distin (who had become a liability) and Alcaraz (who was just awful). We've brought in Cleverley - seen as a long term replacement for Osman. Deulofeu - hugely exciting, but frustrating, young talent. Funes Mori - CB cover, could go either way. Rodriguez - completely unknown. Lennon - you know what you are going to get, offers more direct running. Holgate - promising young defender. Barkley and Lukaku have already started out a hell of a lot better than last season when I think second season syndrome set in for a lot of players. World cup hangover and a European campaign to contend with, as well as a pretty small squad. We had some bad injuries to key players: Stones and McCarthy were out for a big chunk. Pienaar barely played. A lot is made of our ageing squad. If you look at our 'strongest' eleven, it isn't that bad... Howard - 36 Coleman - 26 Stones - 21 Jagielka - 33 Baines - 30 Barry - 34 McCarthy - 24 Mirallas - 27 Barkley - 21 Cleverley - 26 Lukaku - 22 Then when you look at the rest of the usual squad (not going to include Hibbert, Gibson or Pienaar cos they barely ever play now): Funes Mori(24), McGeady(29 but s***!), Oviedo(25), Kone(31), Lennon(29), Naismith(28), Besic(22), Deulofeu(21), Osman(34) and Rodriguez(22). So a good range of ages. What some people don't know is we have some seriously talented young players coming through too. Garbutt has obviously gone out on loan for the season (injured at the moment though). Then we have Galloway who will eventually be a CB, obviously Holgate as well. We have Tyias Browning and Matty Pennington (who won Coventry young player of the season last year) - who've both played for the first team and been regularly involved so far. We also have Ryan Ledson and Kieran Dowell who've been involed with the first team through pre season and on the first team fringe. Then a young lad called Antony Evans who everyone is excited about (though will probably still be a little while before he is involved. If we can keep the young core (Stones/McCarthy/Barkley/Besic/Lukaku) together and add to it then people are excited about what they can achieve together, the only problem is keeping hold of them... I don't think a lot of people outside the club truly understand what people's gripes are with the Everton board. I think if you read up on it you might be a little more sympathetic. If you are genuinely interested, maybe give this a read: http://evertonviral.com/who-is-the-main-player-in-the-everton-show/ Hope I haven't rambled too much 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcTheObsession Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 I think Everton could finish anywhere from 7th down to around where they did last season 11th/12th. 7th or 8th would be a decent season for them, given that their average finish under Moyes was 7.5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted September 7, 2015 Moderator Share Posted September 7, 2015 Welcome back AG, nice to see you posting. Do you have some sort of 'they are talking about Everton' alert set up? Anyway, I can't help but notice that in your post how you neglect to mention Martinez.... I agree you have some excellent young players and some very good prospects but its not really down to Martinez that, personally I'm not a fan of his but I'm interested on your view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Artetasgirl Posted September 10, 2015 Visiting Supporter Popular Post Share Posted September 10, 2015 Welcome back AG, nice to see you posting. Do you have some sort of 'they are talking about Everton' alert set up? Anyway, I can't help but notice that in your post how you neglect to mention Martinez.... I agree you have some excellent young players and some very good prospects but its not really down to Martinez that, personally I'm not a fan of his but I'm interested on your view. haha, no, I just pop back in sometimes for a catch up. Good to see a lot of familiar names still so active. On Martinez...I'm still torn. I've met him on several occasions now and I don't believe I've ever met someone who is more engaging or has such presence about them as he does. It's honestly quite strange. He speaks with incredible knowledge and passion, but I'm still a bit weary over whether it's he knows the right things to say or not. He fascinates me in this respect. One thing I know for sure is he is the most positive person ever. I can barely ever remember a time when he has publically knocked a player, but I do know (for a fact!) that he will say positive things in public but still give heat to a player in the dressing room if it's warranted. I just don't know whether he has it in him to *really* make it. In his first season, we were superb. Honestly. The best I've ever seen an Everton team. Last season, I think a lot of factors affected the team. His tactics really didn't help at times. The potential is there. Definitely. I just don't know if the crowd will ever fully take to him as the consistency just hasn't been there and Evertonians love fast flowing, high tempo football and it's been rare over the last 12 months! We just became a little too 'obvious' and lacked that spark to break down a stubborn defence. Our team, particularly our attackers, have the perfect set up as a counter attacking team. You saw it against Southampton. Teams know now that if they give us the ball, we'll invariably struggle to break them down if they are disciplined enough. We just need to add that extra dimension or two to our game. It's so frustrating as I know it's there and in Martinez to do, I just don't know whether it'll ever happen... 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Think you're a bit like us post MON now, missed the chance for top 4, everyone knows it and you'll just plod along in the league now although you won't be as close to relegation as we've been.Not a bad squad but a bit stale now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Still media darlings though, don't tell sky that Everton aren't competing anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted September 10, 2015 Moderator Share Posted September 10, 2015 I don't think Everton get a disproportionate amount of Sky coverage. I wouldn't call them media darlings. They do perhaps use Martinez more than some managers but that's only because he's articulate and intelligent. They used him as a Wigan manager too and they were hardly media darlings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 I think much like Spurs they fit sky's marketing agenda of trying to promote the prem as this great exciting league where anyone can beat anyone and everyone is competing and at the start of every season they've got a real chance of top four and pushing on and doing something...Whereas in my head they're the same as the rest of us, miles off them lot up there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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