Everton

[Vancvillan]

People keep saying this is unprecedented but Swindon Town won promotion (via the playoffs) to the top tier in 1990. A couple of weeks later they were found guilty of financial irregularities and relegated TWO DIVISIONS.

Was reduced to one division on appeal.

So yeah, ten points is a lot but imagine winning the playoffs, then getting relegated before the season starts. And to top it all off you live in Swindon.

[oishiiniku_uk]

Is the real issue, rather than the size of the breach,  that the Premier League believes that Everton tried to hide their losses within the stadium costs (and then claim that's not what they were doing)?
The size of the penalty does seem harsh for the scale of the losses (but I guess for various reasons the PL has to be seen to be taking firm action with FFP). 

[Lichfield Dean]

Yeah, I'm unsure what this punishment is for exactly. If it's just an overspend it seems a bit harsh, but if it's for trying to scam money by lying about COVID losses then quite frankly this isn't nearly enough, that was utterly despicable behaviour.

All the reports I've seen just talk about an overspend and breach of ffp.

[HKP90]

4 hours ago, maqroll said:

Why have Everton already been docked points when Man City haven't?

This for me is the heart of the matter. 

If this was Man City, there would be no deduction.

If this was Man Utd., there would be no deduction. 

If this was Chelsea or Liverpool or Newcastle, there would be no deduction. 

We all know this, and we all just suck up the hypocrisy from the PL.

A PL that not only knew about Everton's issues, but have been working with them to find a solution since 2021.

For me it comes down to how honest the mistake was. I'm not saying Everton are squeaky here, nor that they should not have certain sanctions, but for me Everton have been thrown under the bus BECAUSE they don't have the power or courage to hand out  meaningful punishments to clubs like Man City for their 100+ knowing violations. They will say it sets a precedent. But watch them not follow it up with anything.

[Wurzel]

 

[jim]

[VillaChris]

8 hours ago, S-Platt said:

There needs to be a system in place where everyone knows if you are caught breaking the rules in a financial sense you are deducted a set number of points.  Not the up in their mythical stuff we have now.

Everton have a 10 point deduction for apparently a 20 million fudge of FFP.

So we equate every 2 million over budget is a 1 point deduction.

Teams can chose to go over the threshold but know where they stand.

City have 110 breaches which is probably in the 100s of millions over budget.  So will be deducted accordingly.

Chelsea likewise.  Probably a few other clubs too.

The amount of spend would need to be agreed by all clubs pre this coming to pass.

It should then level the spend on the team so it's equal for everyone not those that have the biggest sponsorship deals or stadiums.   Obviously not all clubs could spend the agreed amount but the option is there should they wish to.  And those seeking to cheat and go over budget will be starting on minus points.

 

 

Yes that's the vagueness of it. We've known for decades if you go into administration in any division it's a 10-12 point deduction.

If you fail to turn up for a game without a valid reason or play a suspended player it's a 3-0 defeat (and also a three point deduction if you're Middlesborough....).

Surely when they drew up FFP and implemented into the prem there should've been a range of points deductions if you go over the limit?

I think this will be whittled down on appeal personally. I think if the independent commission had just come back with a 4-5 point deduction then Everton would've quietly accepted it as given the stories of -12 a few weeks back premier league could've just pointed out it could've been worse.

If we'd been deducted -10 for FFP on one single charge I'd certainly want us to be looking at every single appeal route.

[VillaChris]

54 minutes ago, Newry_Villan said:

All focus should be directly on Man City now. Everton hit with docked points for one FFP breach. Premier League think they can prove 115 breaches. That's a lot of points to be deducted if you do the math. I'll not hold my breath though. A small fine and a slap on the wrist. Rules are different for the Sky 6.  Big 6 bias will be officially confirmed if they try to sweep this under the carpet with a fine.

Yep, I won't be holding my breath. However Chelsea did have a transfer embargo slapped on them in summer 2019 (albeit they were given plenty of warning on that). Think that was Uefa rather than premier league though.

If you remember just before Covid Uefa also banned Man. City from CL for breaches but that was appealed and sorted out so can see same happening if they're given a mammoth points deduction.

Says it all to me Everton slapped with -10 and the six who basically overnight handed in notice to resign from premier league and set up a super league basically were quickly welcomed back into the fold with a wagging finger and told to behave themselves.

[VillaChris]

One good thing about this at least....given the amount of people claiming Everton will stay up comfortably regardless then it's important to say they've still got to play all of Spurs, Man. United, Chelsea and Newcastle twice so backs to the wall and galvanised I think they'll take points off some of those teams at Goodison at least. They play all of those four in the next month.

[stewiek2]

I think they know Everton will appeal and get the deduction reduced, as it now has really brought the spotlight onto Chelsea and especially Man City. There's now a huge push on social media for something to be done about their breaches. They simply can't wipe their allegations under the carpet now. Simply put it's put major pressure on those in charge to properly look at the 115 charges against City and the extra payments for. abramovich and co. I think the premier League wer hoping it'd all drift away whilst they had their babies bringing in more global market share. But now, they are fooked. The have to investigate. The independent commission has used this to highlight the bigger picture. Everton will appeal and win, but if their dont will stay up.

It's the bigger picture. The spotlight suddenly is all on Man City and to a lesser extent Chelsea. It's all over social media and the rags. They can't escape it.

Whilst it was quiet on the Man City charges and Chelsea charges those two clubs and the prem wer happy as hell. But now this Everton outcome has happened, those two clubs have to be sweating tonight as Everton have been the Trojan horse to smash through the prem gate to really go at the club's that have really rigged it. And it's going to get messy and nasty.

Edited November 17, 2023 by stewiek2

[VillaChris]

11 minutes ago, stewiek2 said:

I think they know Everton will appeal and get the deduction reduced, as it now has really brought the spotlight onto Chelsea and especially Man City. There's now a huge push on social media for something to be done about their breaches. They simply can't wipe their allegations under the carpet now. Simply put it's put major pressure on those in charge to properly look at the 115 charges against City and the extra payments for. abramovich and co. I think the premier League wer hoping it'd all drift away whilst they had their babies bringing in more global market share. But now, they are fooked. The have to investigate. The independent commission has used this to highlight the bigger picture. Everton will appeal and win, but if their dont will stay up.

It's the bigger picture. The spotlight suddenly is all on Man City and to a lesser extent Chelsea. It's all over social media and the rags. They can't escape it.

Whilst it was quiet on the Man City charges and Chelsea charges those two clubs and the prem wer happy as hell. But now this Everton outcome has happened, those two clubs have to be sweating tonight as Everton have been the Trojan horse to smash through the prem gate to really go at the club's that have really rigged it. And it's going to get messy and nasty.

From reading on another forum. Apparently a breach is a fixed six point penalty and then it's an increase of extra point for every additional 5m hence they've rounded up to 10 points.

I personally think from appeal it will go down back to six points as apparently Everton will argue stuff like they couldn't sell Gylfi Sigurdsson in the time period because he was inactive and then eventually GMP didn't charge him with anything so that was out of their control and they followed protocol by suspending him until the investigation concluded. 

They also sold Richarlison quickly in summer 2022 to comply with that summer's FFP deadline otherwise they could've maybe wrangled another 10m if it had gone to a bididng war (although judging from his Spurs form 60m is one of the deals of last decade from a selling club!)

Chelsea are claiming when due diligence was being down on the takeover they noticed issues with the spending and effectively reported themselves to the premier league so can see them getting off tbh. 

[QldVilla]

I believe Everton are very lucky the points deduction came this season, even if it is reduced on appeal to 4-6 points. Last season they would have gone down and asks the question whether Leicester, Leeds etc will go after them for damages? Will any damages come off Everton's FFP as they say going down costs' clubs 100 million pounds, 2-3 clubs sue and win, there could be a significant impact on Everton.

With regards to Man City, i don't see their titles being striped, potentially it's a huge points deduction, but the way they operate just see them wriggling out somehow....

[stewiek2]

9 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

From reading on another forum. Apparently a breach is a fixed six point penalty and then it's an increase of extra point for every additional 5m hence they've rounded up to 10 points.

I personally think from appeal it will go down back to six points as apparently Everton will argue stuff like they couldn't sell Gylfi Sigurdsson in the time period because he was inactive and then eventually GMP didn't charge him with anything so that was out of their control and they followed protocol by suspending him until the investigation concluded. 

They also sold Richarlison quickly in summer 2022 to comply with that summer's FFP deadline otherwise they could've maybe wrangled another 10m if it had gone to a bididng war (although judging from his Spurs form 60m is one of the deals of last decade from a selling club!)

Chelsea are claiming when due diligence was being down on the takeover they noticed issues with the spending and effectively reported themselves to the premier league so can see them getting off tbh. 

They couldn't sell Sigurdsson because of the underage sex charges against him the time..which have since been dropped.

Edited November 17, 2023 by stewiek2

[useless]

I fee like this deduction has come at a really bad time within the season for Everton, they've been on a good run recently, lost just one of the last five and got a couple of good away wins, but that kind of form won't last, and when you look at their next twelve fixtures, they're potentially in for a difficult run up until late February

Man Utd (h), Nottingham Forest (a), Newcastle (h), Chelsea (h), Burnley (a), Spurs (a), Man City (h), Wolves (a), Aston Villa (h) Fulham (a), Spurs (h), Man City (a)

I guess they have to hope the bottom three continue to be as bad as they have been results wise, and that they can pick up a few unexpected wins

[desensitized43]

54 minutes ago, useless said:

I fee like this deduction has come at a really bad time within the season for Everton, they've been on a good run recently, lost just one of the last five and got a couple of good away wins, but that kind of form won't last, and when you look at their next twelve fixtures, they're potentially in for a difficult run up until late February

Man Utd (h), Nottingham Forest (a), Newcastle (h), Chelsea (h), Burnley (a), Spurs (a), Man City (h), Wolves (a), Aston Villa (h) Fulham (a), Spurs (h), Man City (a)

I guess they have to hope the bottom three continue to be as bad as they have been results wise, and that they can pick up a few unexpected wins

I wouldn’t want to be the team going to goodison in the next few weeks. It’s going to be like the end of the last couple of seasons with flares, smoke bombs, team buses attacked and general scouse abuse on acid.

[Zatman]

15 minutes ago, desensitized43 said:

I wouldn’t want to be the team going to goodison in the next few weeks. It’s going to be like the end of the last couple of seasons with flares, smoke bombs, team buses attacked and general scouse abuse on acid.

They have United at home first up. So couldnt happen to a nicer bunch

[jim]

Bit cold in Liverpool today!

[Nigel]

Bloody hell everton are as bad as their neighbours for martyrdom! 

You are not the point here everton.

They have been made an example of but I hope any appeals fail as this is about more than the one club.

[OutByEaster?]

In amongst all the angst of Everton's fans and board, it surely won't have escaped them that this is to a large extent a nothing punishment?

It's a big display of authority by the league - a 10 point deduction - throwing the book at them - blah blah.

In reality, it's extremely unlikely to relegate them, will probably cost them three of four positions but will ensure that a famous name and its new stadium will remain in the big TV show for the coming years despite having cheated.

If they apply the same sort of reasoning to Chelsea, I'd expect a big points deduction that isn't big enough to relegate them and maybe a transfer window ban, which for Poch and his 81 man squad would probably be a blessing.

For City, maybe the stripping of some history, a transfer ban and a thirty point deduction that should see them finish in the top half.

For all that people are wringing their hands about the severity of this punishment, for me it suggests the laying of the table for future slaps on the wrist.

[LondonLax]

24 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

In amongst all the angst of Everton's fans and board, it surely won't have escaped them that this is to a large extent a nothing punishment?

It's a big display of authority by the league - a 10 point deduction - throwing the book at them - blah blah.

In reality, it's extremely unlikely to relegate them, will probably cost them three of four positions but will ensure that a famous name and its new stadium will remain in the big TV show for the coming years despite having cheated.

If they apply the same sort of reasoning to Chelsea, I'd expect a big points deduction that isn't big enough to relegate them and maybe a transfer window ban, which for Poch and his 81 man squad would probably be a blessing.

For City, maybe the stripping of some history, a transfer ban and a thirty point deduction that should see them finish in the top half.

For all that people are wringing their hands about the severity of this punishment, for me it suggests the laying of the table for future slaps on the wrist.

It’s the biggest punishment ever handed out to a Premier League club and handed out for a breach of £9m.

Whether it relegates them remains to be seen.