Fabian Delph

[Con]

My idea of a box-to-box player is Yaya Toure, Stephen Gerrard, Frank Lampard, Gary Gardner or Ross Barkley.

 

Delph isn't the size of these players, doesn't have the build for a box-to-box player, and has not produced the goals and assists you would expect of one. My conclusion is therefore, he's not one.

 

I compare Delph to Ramires, Cattermole, De Guzman. He's similar in size to these players and his playing statistics are most similar to these players too. 

[Dante_Lockhart]

Delph is most definitely a box to box player.

 

In those '2000' minutes he's played he hasn't scored, true, but he also hasn't been playing in his natural 'position'. These last 2 games have been eye-opening and I think we'll see Delph chip in with at least 5 goals this year if he carries on like he is.

 

He can shoot, we all know that. He's just finally getting the opportunity to.

[villaglint]

Con = master troll.

 

Was hoping it would be confined to the Bannan thread and then wither away when he left but alas no.

 

 

I do believe Delph is a box to box player in that he contributes in driving the team forward to the opponents box and also in defending our box.

 

I actually agree that the incisive pass/through ball doesn't seem to be a strong part of his game. However I am sure he will get goals this year. I think you can still be a box to box player without being brilliant and every aspect of the game.

 

You site the fact he hasn't scored so far but I reckon he has played less than 10 games in this position for us, the games where we have played 3 in middle.

[villaglint]

Comparing Ramires to Cattermole???

 

That's me done, have a nice life CON artist.

[Dante_Lockhart]

[Con]

 

I actually agree that the incisive pass/through ball doesn't seem to be a strong part of his game. However I am sure he will get goals this year. I think you can still be a box to box player without being brilliant and every aspect of the game.

 

You site the fact he hasn't scored so far but I reckon he has played less than 10 games in this position for us, the games where we have played 3 in middle.

 

You can be a box-to-box player "without being brilliant at every aspect of the game" but you won't be a brilliant box-to-box player if you measure them on goals and assists (which I was under the impression you did). 

 

Delph is brilliant at interceptions (reading game, positioning), tackling and dribbling, not brilliant at passing and shooting so his goal and assist tally will always be lower than a true b-b2b player. 

 

Frank Lampard, a real box-to-box player, isn't brilliant at tackling so isn't a true defensive player, but he is brilliant at passing and shooting. 

 

I think Delph could get 3 goals a season as a Ramires type player if he played every game. A very important cog for the team next to a more attacking midfielder.

 

Partnership with Westwood and El Ahmadi is good but you think either one of those will eventually have to make-way for a more attacking player.

[Philosopher]

"Or ...". You always have a tenuous rebuttal for everything Con. I've followed the Bannan discussions. In my view (and it appears Big John's too) you're wrong in what you think a box to box midfielder is. But what the Bannan discussion has also taught me is not to bother getting into a discussion over it, so this is me leaving.

A box to box midfielder doesn't need to assist or score to be a box to box midfielder.  What a box to box midfield does is rather than stick to either the defensive half of the middle or the attacking half of the middle, he works both, operating from the edge of his own box to the opponents box! Using high energy, stamina, workrate and good antisipation skills to always be in the thick of the action! There are differnt types of box to box player within this.  There are playmaker types that get lots of assists and dictate the play as well as poping up with a few goals (think Gerrard), there is goal scoring type who is adept at making those late ghosting runs lnto the box (think Lampard), and then there is the destroyer! Delph I would class as the destroyer, he uses his pace and tenacity to quickly close down and dispossess opponents all over the pitch and when in possession runs with the ball through the middle creating space for others. So basically he breaks down oppostion moves and then destroy's the opposition midfields shape!

 

I would best compare Delph to Roy Keane (as I have mentioned previously)! Now if we had a Scholes (who is a combination of playmaker / goalscorer b2b) we would achieve a new dimension in our play.  Currently we play with two destroyer types and a sitter in midfield, makes it very hard to play through us, but lacks a bit of attacking threat! I think Lambert is currently looking for the missing piece, a hardworking, energetic midfield playmaker. With our three forwards goals won't be a problem so long as the supply is there!

[Con]

A box to box midfielder doesn't need to assist or score to be a box to box midfielder.  What a box to box midfield does is rather than stick to either the defensive half of the middle or the attacking half of the middle, he works both, operating from the edge of his own box to the opponents box! Using high energy, stamina, workrate and good antisipation skills to always be in the thick of the action! There are differnt types of box to box player within this.  There are playmaker types that get lots of assists and dictate the play as well as poping up with a few goals (think Gerrard), there is goal scoring type who is adept at making those late ghosting runs lnto the box (think Lampard), and then there is the destroyer! Delph I would class as the destroyer, he uses his pace and tenacity to quickly close down and dispossess opponents all over the pitch and when in possession runs with the ball through the middle creating space for others. So basically he breaks down oppostion moves and then destroy's the opposition midfields shape!

 

 

 

I would best compare Delph to Roy Keane (as I have mentioned previously)! Now if we had a Scholes (who is a combination of playmaker / goalscorer b2b) we would achieve a new dimension in our play.  Currently we play with two destroyer types and a sitter in midfield, makes it very hard to play through us, but lacks a bit of attacking threat! I think Lambert is currently looking for the missing piece, a hardworking, energetic midfield playmaker. With our three forwards goals won't be a problem so long as the supply is there!

 

 

I'd agree with this but the term box-to-box as applied by some in this thread is the Gerrard/Lampard version not purely the destroyer version. Personally, I'd term the destroyer version defensive midfield or central midfield (with no reference to "box-to-box").

 

It seems though you agree with me Delph's main assets aren't attacking? This is my point and I'm getting criticised for it.

[villaglint]

CON I'm hating myself for replying because I know it's getting you hard but here goes anyway.

 

What kind of player do you consider Wilshere to be? He plays his part in defending and also in attacking but rarely scores and doesn't get many assists.

 

His role is primarily to break the lines, get the opposition team on the back foot and create room for the forward players.

 

Now before anyone jumps on this I am in no way comparing Wilshere to Delph they are very different players.

 

But what I will say is that Delph does offer us something from an attacking threat which you seem to be denying. He beats his man in midfield, breaks the lines and put the opposition on the back foot, this in turn creates room for our top 3 to hurt teams.

[Big_John_10]

He defends our box, attacks the opposition box and is able to run and dribble between the two boxes.

He's a box to box midfield player.

[Con]

CON I'm hating myself for replying because I know it's getting you hard but here goes anyway.

 

What kind of player do you consider Wilshere to be? He plays his part in defending and also in attacking but rarely scores and doesn't get many assists.

 

His role is primarily to break the lines, get the opposition team on the back foot and create room for the forward players.

 

Now before anyone jumps on this I am in no way comparing Wilshere to Delph they are very different players.

 

But what I will say is that Delph does offer us something from an attacking threat which you seem to be denying. He beats his man in midfield, breaks the lines and put the opposition on the back foot, this in turn creates room for our top 3 to hurt teams.

 

Use the Squawka player rankings tables and compare Wilshire to Delph. (Where it says Add Player write "Wilshire" then "Delph" below).

 

Wilshire is a creative, attacking player who has some defensive qualities. He got 3 assists and created 47 chances in 25 games for Arsenal last year. 

 

Delph is better defensively than Wilshire and has a better surge/dribble. However he's not as good going forward, 0 assists last year, 13 chances created in 24 games.

 

Currently a huge difference between the two players on attacking score. 

Edited August 22, 2013 by Con

[PaulMcGrath_5]

Please stop replying to his nonsense, I can't take it anymore!

[StefanAVFC]

Oh jesus christ, the stats are back.

 

I can see Delph is a box-to-box player. This forum can see Delph is a box-to-box player. 

 

He is a box-to-box player. Normally I'd think, to say he's not, because he isn't built like Yaya Toure, but you have previous of saying ridiculous things. Now Bannan is going, is this the crap we have to put with? 

[SikhInTrinity]

These stats are pointless, Delph does not take free-kicks or corners. Wilshire does as do all of the other players you mention. So they would create more chances surely.

[AVFCforever1991]

My idea of a box-to-box player is Yaya Toure, Stephen Gerrard, Frank Lampard, Gary Gardner or Ross Barkley.

 

Delph isn't the size of these players, doesn't have the build for a box-to-box player, and has not produced the goals and assists you would expect of one. My conclusion is therefore, he's not one.

 

I compare Delph to Ramires, Cattermole, De Guzman. He's similar in size to these players and his playing statistics are most similar to these players too. 

 

[BOF]

Guys just remember it takes 2 to tango. Don't let this thread go the way of the other one. Delph is arguably the best player this season off the back of our first 2 games. Let's celebrate what looks to be the fulfillment of what has always been an immense talent that, ahem, some saw a lot earlier than others /smug

[Con]

These stats are pointless, Delph does not take free-kicks or corners. Wilshire does as do all of the other players you mention. So they would create more chances surely.

 

Why does Wilshire take the corners? Because he's good at them.

 

Why doesn't Lambert choose Delph to take the corners - because we need his physical presence in the box?

[ROTTERDAM1982]

 I partly agree with you Con, Delph is'nt one of the old fashioned box to box midfielder, a la Bryan Robson, but hes one of the new modern midfielders, in that he has an all round game, but is mobile, and pacy.He has the capacity to pass, but not greatly, he can tackle, but not like Trevor Hockey, and he han close down space, and support attack and defence both as equally well, KEA and Sylla are also similar.

 

 What we do lack is a player to play alongside them, who offers a bit more quality, and more of a goal threat.Good as Westwood is, he has'nt got the mobility of the above 3, but does'nt offer enough of a goal threat to cement his place in the team.For me, i said it last season, Delph and Sylla/KEA, is a good midfield base to play a quality no 10 alongside.Delph has the ability to be a very good player, hes not as good as Wiltshire, but he would play very well alongside him.Turning out to be the player we all hoped he would.

 

 Cheeky offer to have Mata on loan?Mourinhio does'nt seem to like him.

[Con]

 I partly agree with you Con, Delph is'nt one of the old fashioned box to box midfielder, a la Bryan Robson, but hes one of the new modern midfielders, in that he has an all round game, but is mobile, and pacy.He has the capacity to pass, but not greatly, he can tackle, but not like Trevor Hockey, and he han close down space, and support attack and defence both as equally well, KEA and Sylla are also similar.

 

 What we do lack is a player to play alongside them, who offers a bit more quality, and more of a goal threat.Good as Westwood is, he has'nt got the mobility of the above 3, but does'nt offer enough of a goal threat to cement his place in the team.For me, i said it last season, Delph and Sylla/KEA, is a good midfield base to play a quality no 10 alongside.Delph has the ability to be a very good player, hes not as good as Wiltshire, but he would play very well alongside him.Turning out to be the player we all hoped he would.

 

 Cheeky offer to have Mata on loan?Mourinhio does'nt seem to like him.

 

I agree with this. How exactly do we disagree? 

[BOF]

Is it now being suggested that the taking of corners and their resulting chances created, somehow strengthens the argument of someone being a box to box midfielder?

Must. Take. Own. Advice.