villa4europe Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 6 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: Just on this - Jack is absolutely brilliant at making a defender (or two) think that they're in an individual battle with him; that he's about to try some trick or movement to get past them, like he's working out a way around them, that he's entirely focused on them and their effect on him as an obstacle to his progress, when he's actually focused on something ten or twenty yards away and he's waiting for a bit of space to develop or a run to be made by a team mate before playing a ball into an area that the defender stopped thinking about some time ago - it's one of his greatest strengths and one of the things he has that very, very few other players do. no OBE you are wrong, its slowing the ball down and is detrimental...and of course in the PL he will be "found out" not a clue what's happened here in the space of 2 games, its like we don't deserve nice things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 11 hours ago, KenjiOgiwara said: I actually googled douglas Luiz goal Bournemouth, but it didn't show. Either way the video you probably refer to is uk only. Thanks for the rocket polisher'esque responsen though. Anytime. Disappointing to see you’ve now actually seen the clip and still criticised him. I dont think he had a bad game but I think he can be a lot better than he was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted August 19, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted August 19, 2019 8 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: Just on this - Jack is absolutely brilliant at making a defender (or two) think that they're in an individual battle with him; that he's about to try some trick or movement to get past them, like he's working out a way around them, that he's entirely focused on them and their effect on him as an obstacle to his progress, when he's actually focused on something ten or twenty yards away and he's waiting for a bit of space to develop or a run to be made by a team mate before playing a ball into an area that the defender stopped thinking about some time ago - it's one of his greatest strengths and one of the things he has that very, very few other players do. Yep, and that's exactly what happened this time. Jack feints to take the defender on down the left leaving him free to cut back and play the square pass to Luiz, who is wide open because the Bournemouth midfielder has been drawn towards Jack after his run 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenjiOgiwara Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 Quote Let me explain football to you. You're right, Luiz still has a lot to do, so it's not like Grealish has created a clear-cut scoring chance. Great we agree then. That's basically what I said. I did it without being condescending mind. The fact that you think you a) are some kinda football expert b) have any idea about others qualifications without knowing them. Well the the world of Trump and brexit it's not surprising. The voters had to be found somewhere. Well now you got me to your level. Quote Now here's where he takes the ball. Have a look at where all the Bournemouth midfielders are now. The defenders have come deep and everyone is focused on Jack. Are you for real? The have come deep cause we got 6 players in their box. Ofc. Jack will have their attention, he was the bloody ball. Call me impressed. Quote Now here's the situation when Douglas Luiz receives the ball. Look where the nearest Bournemouth player is. Why does he have so much space? Because of Jack's run. Hahahaha. This is exactly what I am on about. No it's not because of 'Jack's'. The fact that you start pretending you know so much about football and what not and claim this. Hilarious. The reason Luiz stands in space is a) he took out depth b) Villa movement off ball, i.e. runs into the box. This is part of the glorification of Grealish here and exactly what I am on about. Frasier is pulled deep to cover a zone he doesn't wanna be in because of off ball movement. Grealish having the ball is correct, but that's a collective move. And Grealish did nothing with that ball you wouldn't see from any other winger we got. Quote It takes a lot of skill and awareness to be able to carry the ball that close to a defender and still be able to look up and pick a surprise pass. Jack makes it look quite easy. Yes. And? This was not a surprised pass, but carry on your expert analysis. Does that mean we should pretend a backwards pass is the equivalent of creating a chance? Ofc. not. That was all Luiz and the fact here is that Grealish fan club would have no problems pointing that out if the roles were reversed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted August 19, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted August 19, 2019 1 minute ago, KenjiOgiwara said: Hahahaha. This is exactly what I am on about. No it's not because of 'Jack's'. The fact that you start pretending you know so much about football and what not and claim this. Hilarious. The reason Luiz stands in space is a) he took out depth b) Villa movement off ball, i.e. runs into the box. This is part of the glorification of Grealish here and exactly what I am on about. Frasier is pulled deep to cover a zone he doesn't wanna be in because of off ball movement. Grealish having the ball is correct, but that's a collective move. And Grealish did nothing with that ball you wouldn't see from any other winger we got. Yes it is. It absolutely is because of Jack's run. The only way you can see it as the above is if you're deliberately trying to be negative about it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 And apparently my response was ‘rocket polisher esque’ Anyway Jack is crucial to this team. I wish that curling effort went in. He needs a big goal or assist to really kick start his season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenjiOgiwara Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 23 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Yes it is. It absolutely is because of Jack's run. The only way you can see it as the above is if you're deliberately trying to be negative about it. Actually no. You are correct in the sense the offside rule will limit off ball runs if the ballcarrier is static. And yes Grealish did a forward move where he just passed backwards again. And if the argument was Grealish had a great game cause he was able to move 10 yards forward then passing it backwards fair enough. I just expect better than that from the playmaker of avfc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 I just came in here to express that I hope Jack can make the impact in the Prem that he did in the Championship, but my 'early days' opinion is that he isn't. Now I've read back the last few pages, I'm scared someone's going to throw a rock at me, along with some biting remark. One thing I feel like he's done less so far, is actually take on players. Maybe the opposition are better organised? Or maybe they're just more physically built. Hopefully it's a confidence thing, and he'll start to impose himself a little more on games, but it does feel like he's going to get fewer creative chances and therefore he needs to make them count when he gets them. Despite, in my opinion, him having 2 quiet games, he's still been involved and got that assist, so hopefully he builds on that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted August 19, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted August 19, 2019 8 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said: Actually no. You are correct in the sense the offside rule will limit off ball runs if the ballcarrier is static. And yes Grealish did a forward move where he just passed backwards again. And if the argument was Grealish had a great game cause he was able to move 10 yards forward then passing it backwards fair enough. I just expect better than that from the playmaker of avfc. I don't think anyone is saying that. All we're saying in this discussion is that Grealish did some work in creating that chance. You've framed it as he failed to beat his man and out of desperation made a backwards pass to stop us losing the ball (not that there's anything wrong with that) But it's so much more than that. As has already been pointed out, he didn't try to beat the man. He dummied to beat him on the left which gave him the space to pass inside. And him carrying the ball into the box was what drew the bournemouth midfielder towards him which created the space for Luiz. Passing that off as nothing is, like I said, being deliberately negative about it. Which is a really weird thing to do for one of our best players. You keep saying ANY of our wingers would have done what he did. Firstly, I don't think that's true. I think it's more likely our wingers WOULD have tried to beat the man on the outside and then put a cross in. Secondly, even if our wingers did do the same thing, that doesn't mean it's suddenly not creating a chance. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaglint Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 In the main I thought he played well. A couple of mistakes in the first half but we dominated the game and he was a big reason for that. He absolutely should have scored. Just watched the highlights and the header miss was the worst of the lot. I am terrible in the air but even I would have been dissappointed with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 I guess every game where he doesn't score and get man of the match will see this thread grow. People need to get expectations in check for this season, 2 games in and I can already see a lot of ridiculous stuff. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 3 minutes ago, DCJonah said: I guess every game where he doesn't score and get man of the match will see this thread grow. People need to get expectations in check for this season, 2 games in and I can already see a lot of ridiculous stuff. So this is one of those threads where people are only allowed to have opinion if it's positive? Got ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Zatman Posted August 19, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted August 19, 2019 21 minutes ago, Rob182 said: So this is one of those threads where people are only allowed to have opinion if it's positive? Got ya. If he is shit you are allowed say he is shit. People are having a go at him when he got an assist and created the most chances by a player in a Premier League game so far this season 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 8 minutes ago, Zatman said: If he is shit you are allowed say he is shit. People are having a go at him when he got an assist and created the most chances by a player in a Premier League game so far this season People can say whatever they like about players but this is a forum, where discussion and disagreement occur. Obviously you shouldn't attack the person, as we've seen above a bit IMO, but if someone posts their views publically then they're up for scrutiny. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 12 minutes ago, Zatman said: If he is shit you are allowed say he is shit. People are having a go at him when he got an assist and created the most chances by a player in a Premier League game so far this season The post I was quoting was basically telling people to lower their expectations, because people apparently want him to score or get MOTM for every game. It's not that black and white, is it?. He can have an average or poor game and still get an assist or create a handful of chances. I've not had a go at him (I know you weren't saying I was), but I thought he was poor Saturday. I feel like he's been more reluctant to dribble past players, which is one of his best assets (Spurs isn't exactly the best game to judge him on, so it's really only the Bournemouth game I'm basing that on - hence me saying 'it's early days' in my original post). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Rob182 said: I just came in here to express that I hope Jack can make the impact in the Prem that he did in the Championship, but my 'early days' opinion is that he isn't. Now I've read back the last few pages, I'm scared someone's going to throw a rock at me, along with some biting remark. One thing I feel like he's done less so far, is actually take on players. Maybe the opposition are better organised? Or maybe they're just more physically built. Hopefully it's a confidence thing, and he'll start to impose himself a little more on games, but it does feel like he's going to get fewer creative chances and therefore he needs to make them count when he gets them. Despite, in my opinion, him having 2 quiet games, he's still been involved and got that assist, so hopefully he builds on that. I completely agree. I'm even less fussed about him taking on players, just want him to influence the game more. I believe he will as the season progresses and I fully understand the stats some people are saying, just from my point of view watching the games he's been poor. I'm not expecting man of the match performances or anything like that but most things will always hinge around him going forwards because our team is set up like that. He'll get there......... Edited August 19, 2019 by nick76 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 12 hours ago, Tomaszk said: Nah. Not when he was picking players who weren't playing at all ahead of him. Or sometimes playing left back and they're being picked CM ahead of Grealish running matches. Who? May or may not rate Lingard but he started loads of games for Man. United last season. James Maddison hasn't got an England call up yet and he's far more developed at prem level which is understandable given he was playing in it last season. Can see Mason Mount getting call up aswell soon. Jack will be fine and he's mature enough now to understand the areas where he needs to sharpen up in his play. He did in championship so I have no worries long term and he'll get his call up when he corrects these things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 38 minutes ago, lexicon said: People can say whatever they like about players but this is a forum, where discussion and disagreement occur. Obviously you shouldn't attack the person, as we've seen above a bit IMO, but if someone posts their views publically then they're up for scrutiny. agree, everyone is entitled to an opinion no matter how wrong it is but if others are then pulling out stats, screenshots, taking the effort to detail why they think their opinion is right (even con and his incredible opinion on barry bannan was backed up by something) arguing against it with nothing other than blind stubbornness is a waste of time and will be shot down some of the criticism of jack on here is no better than the lazily criticism he gets from the baggies / blues / wolves / leeds fans that are obsessed with him but don't actually watch us every week to understand what he does for us if you think grealish played badly yesterday then fair enough, detail why, "every pass was sideways or backwards" im sure there is a map out there provided by someone like the guardian that backs it up, unfortunately merely saying it and clicking your heels 3 times isn't going to make it true 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 1 minute ago, villa4europe said: agree, everyone is entitled to an opinion no matter how wrong it is but if others are then pulling out stats, screenshots, taking the effort to detail why they think their opinion is right (even con and his incredible opinion on barry bannan was backed up by something) arguing against it with nothing other than blind stubbornness is a waste of time and will be shot down some of the criticism of jack on here is no better than the lazily criticism he gets from the baggies / blues / wolves / leeds fans that are obsessed with him but don't actually watch us every week to understand what he does for us if you think grealish played badly yesterday then fair enough, detail why, "every pass was sideways or backwards" im sure there is a map out there provided by someone like the guardian that backs it up, unfortunately merely saying it and clicking your heels 3 times isn't going to make it true Or the short version "If you thought Grealish played badly yesterday, you are wrong" Cool. I must be wrong. Never mind. Hopefully my next opinion is a good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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