The Bundesliga Thread

[Skruff]

Thinking about following the Bundesliga and therefore I would also like to follow a team. Not necessarily to support but as a way of easing into the league. Any suggestion on a team that's entertaining to watch but also with a bit of soul and character?

[vandaq]

Leverkusen, Werder Bremen? Maybe freiburg...dno really.

Hoffenheim and Bayern is a no in my opinion. Maybe Dortmund at the moment since its popular to like them now, but that is better than many of the other top teams. Hertha is cool too  

[samjp26]

Freiburg have some good young talents in my opinion

[abdomlahor]

Werder Bremen are my German team. It all started from FM when I started a game with Schalke (For my sins). They were just unreal for some reason, one of those teams I could never beat. That was around 2004 maybe? They had some amazing players back then. Johan Micoud, Ailton, Tim Borowski, Miroslav Klose, Tim Wiese (When he was good), Mertesacker etc etc. Ailton and Klose was one of the best strike partnerships I've ever seen. Ailton is a bit of a joke these days, but he was seriously good. Followed them ever since.

 

Recently things have gone to shit though. Thomas Schaaf left at the start of this season after a really poor season in which we almost got relegated. His was one of the longest services to a club I can remember, up there with SAF. Robin Dutt has taken over, and things have started alright, but the squad is poor. It's been dismantled with the sales of star players to other clubs over the years. This is a trend which shows no sign of stopping, with captain Aaron Hunt looking set to leave for Stoke. Although he is in the last year of a deal so any fee we get is a bonus really. We also sold star defender Sokratis Papastathopolous to Dortmund a few months ago.

 

In many ways I liken Bremen to Villa. A team who have experienced success, but have came on hard times and sold on star players, with investments not showing their worth. Big things were expected of Eljero Elia, but he's been poor and lacked consistency, not unlike N'Zogbia. Marko Arnautovic is another who is clearly talented, but his attitude is awful and is constantly getting into trouble. (Being Balotelli's best mate may explain this...)

 

I one day hope to make it to a game over there.

Edited August 31, 2013 by adz.villa

[MagicMerson]

Taking more of an interest in the Bundesliga since BT Sport came into my life. Schalke v Leverkusen yesterday evening wasn't the greatest advert for German football mind. Schalke were average and Leverkusen were fairly useless.

[AVFCforever1991]

I'm sure a lot of people said that about the Man u/Chelsea game.

[steve1986]

Got tickets yesterday for the Schalke v BVB derby in October, can't wait! 

[NurembergVillan]

Thinking about following the Bundesliga and therefore I would also like to follow a team. Not necessarily to support but as a way of easing into the league. Any suggestion on a team that's entertaining to watch but also with a bit of soul and character?

There can be only one -

 

Edited September 1, 2013 by NurembergVillan

[Skruff]

I've actually been playing Nurnberg on Fifa lately, so might not be a bad shout

[BOF]

#There may be trouble ahead...#

Bad Blood: Report Suggests Doping in German Football

Blood doping is not a problem in soccer -- that, at least, is the position of the German Football Association. But a new study identified anomalously high levels in blood samples taken from hundreds of players.

Soccer has largely been spared the doping scandals that have plagued other sports, such as cycling and weight-lifting. Indeed, the German Football Association (DFB) continues to argue that blood doping -- the practice of artificially boosting the number of red blood cells in the bloodstream to enhance athletic performance -- is simply not an issue. But new evidence suggesting anomalously high levels in blood samples taken from players in German professional football during the 2008/09 season calls that claim into question.

The results appeared in a 2011 study by Tim Meyer, the doctor for the German national team, which has so far only been published in medical databases. The scientific study has not been made available to the general public, and the DFB failed to launch an investigation into the results.

The levels shown in the study are exceptionally high: up to 18.5 grams per deciliter of hemoglobin, and hematocrit up to 54.9 percent. In many endurance sports, there are set limits for these blood parameters, often at 17 grams per decileter for hemoglobin and 50 percent for hematocrit. That means that results like those found in the Meyer report would cause the world governing bodies for cycling, triathlon and track and field to at least begin further investigation.

Meyer and his co-author, Steffen Meister, looked at the blood of 532 players. They took samples four times: in pre-season training, in the fall, in the winter and in the spring. The values of 467 professionals were included in the report. SPIEGEL ONLINE can reveal the summary of the investigation and Steffen Meister's dissertation on the topic. The values are completely anonymous. On enquiry, neither the DFB nor the respective clubs wanted to go into particulars.

Meyer and Meister looked at the changes in blood values during training and competitive matches in order to come up with a "football-specific normal value." The process looked at numerous players from 17 clubs from the top two levels of German football -- the first and second divisions of the Bundesliga professional soccer league -- as well as one team from the then-newly established third division.

'Football-Specific Reference Ranges'

The clubs participated in the study voluntarily, and individual players could also choose not to participate. This was made clear to the players when the values were measured, and they gave a maximum of four samples throughout the season. Theoretically, each player could have withdrawn from the study at his own discretion. Despite that, six players before the season started and two in the fall had "hematocrit values of more than 50 percent." In addition, "hemoglobin elevations of more than 17 grams per deciliter" had been noted in a total of nine samples.

Steffen Meister himself wrote in his dissertation of different "football-specific reference ranges," whose maximum levels lay at 50 percent hematocrit. Doping researcher Perikles Simon says values of hemoglobin above 18 and of hematocrit over 52 were "very, very high." Accordingly, such values are "clinically relevant and in need of further monitoring, or it would at least suggest doping in an essentially healthy professional."

Following a request for comment from SPIEGEL ONLINE to numerous current and former Bundesliga clubs, Andreas Rettig, the managing director of the body responsible for running the DFL, sent an email on Thursday to all teams. In it, he quotes a presentation by Tim Meyer in which the DFB doctor makes assurances that the study in no way considered the question of whether there were doping abnormalities. Therefore, specific -- and doping-relevant -- parameters such as reticulocyte concentration were not recorded.

"Nothing more can be determined in retrospect, and (further investigation) would also not be covered by the consent (given by) the players," Meyer is quoted as saying in the explanation, which reads like a pre-emptive answer for clubs raising awkward questions.

Facing a Burden of Proof

Meyer argues in the letter that the anomalous values could be explained by normal variations and were not evidence of doping with the red blood cell-boosting hormone erythropoietin (EPO). This is essentially true: High values do not automatically mean doping has taken place. But doping expert Fritz Sörgel nonetheless considers the actions of the DFB questionable. "With such divergent values, the athlete together with the team doctor faces the burden of proof that it is a genetic abnormality and not doping," Soergel says. "Why should football be an exception here? With such values there is not much to discuss in other sports."

Even DFB doctor Meyer himself writes in his study from 2011 that the values may indicate blood doping through EPO or other methods. Nevertheless, to this day no one has followed up on the results; they were neither made public nor registered at the National Anti-Doping Agency (NADA). NADA declined to comment to SPIEGEL ONLINE when contacted on Thursday.

The DFB has been downplaying the subject of doping in football for years. Those in charge repeatedly argue that football is not an endurance sport and so not a fit for blood doping. Meyer also told SPIEGEL ONLINE that urine samples, not blood tests, "are still the basis of the doping controls. That is valid in football probably even more than in some endurance sports."

This argument can now be seen in a different light. Doping expert and sports physician Simon believes the values measured are striking: "I have seen higher values in individuals who were not doping, but they (only) remained that high for four weeks, or they had been ill."

[leviramsey]

IINM, this implies that the typical Bundesliga player would be banned from cycling...

[Zatman]

if being honest with amount of games played and fitness levels these days I wouldnt be surprised if some players are doping

[MessiWillSignForVilla]

Is there anyway I could watch Bundesliga without BT?

 

Going to Uni soon and I won't have my parents BT Sport to watch it on and I want to start watching more Bundesliga games.

 

Also, what teams compare to other Premier League teams in terms of standard and style, for a kind of measuring stick for the teams, i.e. Bayern = Man Utd?

[steve1986]

Does anyone know how to go about booking standing tickets for Borussia Monchengladbach? I cannot find the standing tickets on the website, and its all in German (obviously) so it is hard to navigate around.

 

Thanks all. I want to go to the Frankfurt game in October.

[Voinjama]

Steve, I have just been on the site, you can translate it. Do you have chrome?

[steve1986]

No but i can download it, does it say anything about buying standing tickets? 

[BOF]

**** Sandhausen????? :cry:

[steve1986]

Standing tickets sold out at Monchengladbach, but have still got them for the Schalke v BVB derby! Cannot wait for October to roll around!!

[NurembergVillan]

Is there anyway I could watch Bundesliga without BT?

 

Going to Uni soon and I won't have my parents BT Sport to watch it on and I want to start watching more Bundesliga games.

 

Also, what teams compare to other Premier League teams in terms of standard and style, for a kind of measuring stick for the teams, i.e. Bayern = Man Utd?

 

ITV2 are doing a weekly highlights show.  I've not caught one yet though so don't know if it's any cop.

 

In terms of like for like teams, it's hard to compare at the top because the German sides don't spend like the English ones.  There's no Man City or Chelsea equivalent, although Wolfsburg and Hoffenheim have both had a go at spending disproportionate levels of cash for a Bundesliga side.

 

I'd have a (rough) punt at -

 

Man Utd = Bayern

Arsenal = Dortmund

Newcastle = Schalke

Liverpool = Hamburg

Everton = Bayer Leverkusen

Villa = Nürnberg

Newcastle = Hertha Berlin

Spurs (pre-cash) = Borussia Mönchengladbach

Man City = Wolfsburg

Chelsea (pre-cash) = VfB Stuttgart

 

The others it's harder to say.  I'd be interested to get BOF and a few of the other's views on the above.  In all though it's so hard to say.  There are so many differences between the PL and every other league in Europe.

[Voinjama]

the manchester united bayern similarity i understand, but i dont understand the rest.