Dismal Cup Record

[Zatman]

Since we got to the FA Cup final in 2015 we have only beaten 3 Premier League teams in the cup and all 3 were on the 2020 cup run.

Do we have the worst recent cup record in England. Also is it a mentality thing because we have also been dumped out by teams from lower divisions.

Sadly it seems this has moved onto Europe as well

[rjw63]

Never mind 2015, we haven't won a real trophy for twenty seven years.

[Zatman]

3 minutes ago, rjw63 said:

Never mind 2015, we haven't won a real trophy for twenty seven years.

I didnt want research further back but yeah its not any more impressive. Try forget the Bradford/Doncaster debacles as well

[turvontour]

The problem is, we're not trying to win these games anymore, so its almost irrelevant. 

[PaulC]

We had such a proud record in this competition winning it 5 times twice in the 70s and twice in the 90s.  The Fa cup although we have reached a couple of finals in the last 65 years.  Our record since we last won it is abysmal really. We better show in the conference league else whst is the point of last seasons great run.

[Tom13]

Moved onto Europe after one game? We'll surely play our best (or close to) side now and get through the group no stress.

Edited September 27, 2023 by Tom13

[useless]

I think the players have some sort of mental block in these Cup games against so called easier opposition, it's as if on some level the players think the game is already half won, we're our own worst enemy, and to be honest there's a similar attitude from some of the fans, I remember when we drew Everton and a lot of fans celebrating that as if it was a good draw, it could have been worse, but drawing another Premier League team this early in a competition is never a good draw when there are still plenty of lower league sides left, and even those games we can't take for granted, we've been doing well, but have to stay humble and remember we not some elite team that can just turn up and win games.

It's a worrying trend, it cost us the chance of winning the FA Cup last season and now it's cost us the chance of winning the EFL Cup this season, these competitions are our only chance of winning something which is more important than anything else, even more so for us, considering how long we've gone without winning anything.

Hopefully we learn our lesson in time for the fA Cup this season, and at least we still have another chance in the Conference League

[The Fun Factory]

1 hour ago, Zatman said:

Since we got to the FA Cup final in 2015 we have only beaten 3 Premier League teams in the cup and all 3 were on the 2020 cup run.

Do we have the worst recent cup record in England. Also is it a mentality thing because we have also been dumped out by teams from lower divisions.

Sadly it seems this has moved onto Europe as well

And if I recall one of those was Wolves who weren't bothered as they were in Europe, and Liverpool when they played the kids? Who was the other PL side?

It has been utter rank for years bar 2020 and 2015.

If Newcastle win a trophy before us I then I will have to throw up. With West Ham winning the Conference it is probably us and Everton of the biggish clubs who never won anything for nearly 30 years.

[Indigo]

It's incredibly frustrating. The draw tonight ending up with United-Newcastle, West Ham-Arsenal and Liverpool-Borunemouth makes it all the more disappointing because there was such a clear pathway to the later stages and when you're in that mix you never know. Easy to say "we won't win a cup anyway" but I'd rather the performances weren't reflective of that mentality. It's been so long since we won anything that I don't think anyone from coaching staff to players to fans can really justify being in anyway dismissive of cup competitions. 

[HanoiVillan]

Emery's knockout record at Villa now stands at P5 W1 (against Lee Johnson's Hibs) L4, including home losses to Stevenage and Everton. You don't want to be critical given how well we're doing in the league, but considering these games are supposed to be his speciality there's absolutely no evidence of that so far. 

[Mark Albrighton]

31 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

Emery's knockout record at Villa now stands at P5 W1 (against Lee Johnson's Hibs) L4, including home losses to Stevenage and Everton. You don't want to be critical given how well we're doing in the league, but considering these games are supposed to be his speciality there's absolutely no evidence of that so far. 

Out of interest, are you grouping the two Hibs games?

It’s a bad record, no question. I guess I feel as we’ve been typically bad in both the cups and the league, being only bad in the cups is something of an improvement so it doesn’t bother me as much. 

Plus, I kinda feel like it doesn’t matter how good we are in the cups, we’ll eventually lose to Man City somewhere along the way.

[Talldarkandransome]

Luckily we're averaging 2 pts per game in the league

[Mantis]

1 hour ago, useless said:

I think the players have some sort of mental block in these Cup games against so called easier opposition, it's as if on some level the players think the game is already half won, we're our own worst enemy, and to be honest there's a similar attitude from some of the fans, I remember when we drew Everton and a lot of fans celebrating that as if it was a good draw, it could have been worse, but drawing another Premier League team this early in a competition is never a good draw when there are still plenty of lower league sides left, and even those games we can't take for granted, we've been doing well, but have to stay humble and remember we not some elite team that can just turn up and win games.

It's a worrying trend, it cost us the chance of winning the FA Cup last season and now it's cost us the chance of winning the EFL Cup this season, these competitions are our only chance of winning something which is more important than anything else, even more so for us, considering how long we've gone without winning anything.

Hopefully we learn our lesson in time for the fA Cup this season, and at least we still have another chance in the Conference League

I mentioned this as well in the post-match thread. The discrepancy between our league performances and our cup performances is really bizarre. I know we weren't amazing against Chelsea for example but in terms of performance and getting the basics right we were on a totally different level than we were against Legia and Everton. And it's not as if a lot of first teamers didn't feature in those two games. Sometimes it does feel as if our good performance in the league over the past 11 months or so has sort of installed this subconscious mental complacency in the players when it comes to cup games against technically weaker sides.

[HanoiVillan]

31 minutes ago, Mark Albrighton said:

Out of interest, are you grouping the two Hibs games?

It’s a bad record, no question. I guess I feel as we’ve been typically bad in both the cups and the league, being only bad in the cups is something of an improvement so it doesn’t bother me as much. 

Plus, I kinda feel like it doesn’t matter how good we are in the cups, we’ll eventually lose to Man City somewhere along the way.

Yes. I did umm and ahh for a few moments but I think they should be grouped as they're one tie. 

[Rightdm00]

33 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

Yes. I did umm and ahh for a few moments but I think they should be grouped as they're one tie. 

What's the 4th loss? In knockout matches he's lost to stevenege, Man U and Everton. 

[Farlz]

I should accept the fact early that I probably won’t see us win a trophy. Can stop being disappointed/annoyed every season then when it comes around.  

[picicata]

Am I right in thinking we haven't got through from the third round of the FA Cup since the year we reached the final?

[QldVilla]

As much as everyone wants a cup run, I’d take top 5 and deep run in the conference league. We don’t have the squad depth for a run in each competition and that is more so with Mings, Carlos, Moreno and Buendia missing.

Something has to be sacrificed and I would rather the 3 points against Brighton on the weekend.

[Zatman]

6 hours ago, The Fun Factory said:

And if I recall one of those was Wolves who weren't bothered as they were in Europe, and Liverpool when they played the kids? Who was the other PL side?

It has been utter rank for years bar 2020 and 2015.

Leicester in the semi final

[Mark Albrighton]

27 minutes ago, QldVilla said:

As much as everyone wants a cup run, I’d take top 5 and deep run in the conference league. We don’t have the squad depth for a run in each competition and that is more so with Mings, Carlos, Moreno and Buendia missing.

Something has to be sacrificed and I would rather the 3 points against Brighton on the weekend.

I kinda feel like a “good cup run” is only good if you win actually win it. We had a good cup run in 2015 but I don’t look back on that with much affection.

But, in cold hard terms, I accept that there’s probably a reasonable financial reward for getting to the latter stages of the European cups even if you don’t win it. 

I know we want to win cups, I do too. My view is that we are a more attractive option to potential signings if we are in Europe because we were the sixth best club in the league, rather than a team that won five or six games in a cup competition, somewhat relying on the luck of the draw.

I think the sixth placed team look more like a more consistent bet to be good again in the eyes of those prospective signings. We attract those players, we sign those better players, the squad gets better, we have more chance of winning a cup.

Just had a look at the winners of both domestic cups over the past 20 years and as far as I can see one of the sky six have been the winners on all but 6 occasions across both competitions. 

So 6 out of 40 winners weren’t much of a force in the league. It’s not a great ratio for us to be pinning our hopes on.

I think we have to concentrate on being better generally in the league, and the very act of being better there I think will spill over into us being better in the cups.