useless Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 Conditional and Option contradict each other until you realize they're not both applicable to us, the compulsory element is on Galatasaray's side and the option element is on our side, if the condition - whatever it is, is met, then we have the option of buying him for the pre-agreed fee, Galatasaray will be forced to sell him for that price, that's where the compulsory element comes in Essentially it's just a loan with an option to buy for us, the 'conditional compulsory purchase option' element of the contract is just to guarantee Galatasary a certain amount of money if we wish to make the deal permanent, but it also stops Galatasary asking for a lot more should he have an amazing season. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982am Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 14 minutes ago, duke313 said: 'Compulsory' and 'Option' kind of contradict each other, no? No really. Once the clause is triggered they have to give us the option to buy at a previously agreed fee. It stops them taking the piss at a later date if we take up that option based on him fitting in and racking up the appearances. I do agree with others though. Based on the fact the loan fee was apparently quite high, it seems the club have used it to leverage the buy later on, probably for ffp purposes. That's how I see it based on the info..... We want him, but wanted a look first and it's cost us a hefty down payment, just in case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke313 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 9 minutes ago, useless said: Conditional and Option contradict each other until you realize they're not both applicable to us, the compulsory element is on Galatasaray's side and the option element is on our side, if the condition - whatever it is, is met, then we have the option of buying him for the pre-agreed fee, Galatasaray will be forced to sell him for that price, that's where the compulsory element comes in Essentially it's just a loan with an option to buy for us, the 'conditional compulsory purchase option' element of the contract is just to guarantee Galatasary a certain amount of money if we wish to make the deal permanent, but it also stops Galatasary asking for a lot more should he have an amazing season. That makes no sense. The "option to buy" becomes mandatory for us when certain criteria are met. Otherwise, it's just a normal loan with option to buy which is not how it was reported at the time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KangarooVillan Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 Good player. Will stick a few second half of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 I'll try and explain in the simplest of terms If the conditions are met, then that triggers the option for us to buy him at pre-agreed fee, but we don't have to sign him if we don't want to, it's optional, it doesn't become mandatory for us to buy him, it becomes mandatory for Galatasary to sell him for the pre-agreed fee, should we take up the option of buying him. It's done like that so neither we or Galatasary lose out, if we deciede to purchase him then they're guaranteed an extra £19.2m plus a ten percent sell on, but also if he was to have an amazing season for us, it stops them messing us about and suddenly asking for say £50m or whatever. So essentially it is like a standard loan with an option to buy, the only difference is that that option for us to buy him at pre-agreed fee only comes into play once certain conditions are met, but those conditions aren't a worry to us, the opposite in fact, because when they're met it gives us the option of buying him should we want him, again they would agree to this, because they already received a big loan fee, more than what they get for most transfers 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 I don't think you've got this right, @useless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted January 9 VT Supporter Share Posted January 9 1 hour ago, useless said: I'll try and explain in the simplest of terms If the conditions are met, then that triggers the option for us to buy him at pre-agreed fee, but we don't have to sign him if we don't want to, it's optional, it doesn't become mandatory for us to buy him, it becomes mandatory for Galatasary to sell him for the pre-agreed fee, should we take up the option of buying him. It's done like that so neither we or Galatasary lose out, if we deciede to purchase him then they're guaranteed an extra £19.2m plus a ten percent sell on, but also if he was to have an amazing season for us, it stops them messing us about and suddenly asking for say £50m or whatever. So essentially it is like a standard loan with an option to buy, the only difference is that that option for us to buy him at pre-agreed fee only comes into play once certain conditions are met, but those conditions aren't a worry to us, the opposite in fact, because when they're met it gives us the option of buying him should we want him, again they would agree to this, because they already received a big loan fee, more than what they get for most transfers What was reported was we'd have to pay a few million to get out of the obligation to buy once the criteria had been met. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke313 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 2 hours ago, useless said: I'll try and explain in the simplest of terms If the conditions are met, then that triggers the option for us to buy him at pre-agreed fee, but we don't have to sign him if we don't want to, it's optional, it doesn't become mandatory for us to buy him, it becomes mandatory for Galatasary to sell him for the pre-agreed fee, should we take up the option of buying him. It's done like that so neither we or Galatasary lose out, if we deciede to purchase him then they're guaranteed an extra £19.2m plus a ten percent sell on, but also if he was to have an amazing season for us, it stops them messing us about and suddenly asking for say £50m or whatever. So essentially it is like a standard loan with an option to buy, the only difference is that that option for us to buy him at pre-agreed fee only comes into play once certain conditions are met, but those conditions aren't a worry to us, the opposite in fact, because when they're met it gives us the option of buying him should we want him, again they would agree to this, because they already received a big loan fee, more than what they get for most transfers I still think this is wrong, why would criteria need to be met for the option to purchase appear? It can just be inserted from the start of the loan like any loan with option to buy. According to Galatasaray's tweet regarding Zaniolo's departure, the deal breaks down as follow: Loan Fee: €5m Conditional Bonus: €1.375m Conditional Compulsory Buy Option: €22.5m Conditional bonus: €15.5m Future Profit: 10% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 Because if we don't play him the required amount of times then we don't have the right to buy him, we could still in theory buy him in that scenairo if Galatasaray agreed to it, but they could ask for a bigger fee, or sell him to someone else, also it makes sense from Zaniolo and his agents point of view, to only give us the option of buying him, if we use him for a certain amount of games, they wouldn't want us barely using him, but then still buying him and him being stuck at a club where he's seen as bit part player. I bet a lot of loans with options to buy are similar, but those little conditions like the player having to play a certain amount of games before the option to buy is triggered not made public Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke313 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 13 minutes ago, useless said: Because if we don't play him the required amount of times then we don't have the right to buy him, we could still in theory buy him in that scenairo if Galatasaray agreed to it, but they could ask for a bigger fee, or sell him to someone else, also it makes sense from Zaniolo and his agents point of view, to only give us the option of buying him, if we use him for a certain amount of games, they wouldn't want us barely using him, but then still buying him and him being stuck at a club where he's seen as bit part player. I bet a lot of loans with options to buy are similar, but those little conditions like the player having to play a certain amount of games before the option to buy is triggered not made public Why would Gala care how many times we play him if they were still going to get money for him? The Zaniolo deal is basically the same as Kulisevski deal at Spurs. Loan fee up front, mandatory fee if X amount of games are played. It isn’t anymore complicated than that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 My final words on the subject It's not just about Galatasary and not just about Villa either, it makes sense from Zaniolo and his agents point of view, to only give us the option of buying him, if we use him for a certain amount of games, they wouldn't want us barely using him, but then still buying him and him being stuck at a club where he's seen as bit part player. Of course we likely wouldn't buy him if we barely used him, but from Zaniolo and his agents point of view they have to make sure, I wouldn't be surprised if it's a standard practice in loan deals with an option to buy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 So we got an option on this kid or what? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abdulaziz1 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 Has he ever played as a striker before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 1 hour ago, abdulaziz1 said: Has he ever played as a striker before? No. He never mentioned it as a position he's played either. I was listening to 1874 podcast with Bardell and guy from The Athletic and said if Watkins was unavailable for a period they don't think Emery would go with Duran up front but Bailey or Diaby which is what I've said think Emery would do 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 19 hours ago, useless said: Conditional and Option contradict each other until you realize they're not both applicable to us, the compulsory element is on Galatasaray's side and the option element is on our side, if the condition - whatever it is, is met, then we have the option of buying him for the pre-agreed fee, Galatasaray will be forced to sell him for that price, that's where the compulsory element comes in Essentially it's just a loan with an option to buy for us, the 'conditional compulsory purchase option' element of the contract is just to guarantee Galatasary a certain amount of money if we wish to make the deal permanent, but it also stops Galatasary asking for a lot more should he have an amazing season. It was reported that it was an obligation to buy of conditions met. We can then still cancel the obligation by paying an additional fee. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 It’s only a gut feeling, but I think he’ll come good. He’s relatively young, seems to have overcome some quite major injuries (fingers crossed) and has shown that he’s a technically excellent player. Emery will work on him, he’ll have gone through the initial settling period… …only a gut feeling, but I think it will click with him. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 7 hours ago, CVByrne said: It was reported that it was an obligation to buy of conditions met. We can then still cancel the obligation by paying an additional fee. This is it. The conditional element of our purchase if compulsory conditions are met is the fact we can pay to escape the obligation. The loan fee is basically higher if we play him more than the agreed conditions, then don't decide to buy him. We don't play him much (don't meet compulsory conditions whatever they are), we don't have to buy him and the loan fee is what it already is. In either of thise above scenarios we can also decide to buy him at the end. The conditions are met, then purchase price is already set. Conditions aren't met, and we agree the fee at the time. I dont see a world where we would choose to buy him if the conditions haven't been met. If the conditions have been met, we have to consider whether we think he's worth the fee we've agreed less how much we'd have to pay to terminate the option. Its not complicated, but there are a few permutations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 9 hours ago, abdulaziz1 said: Has he ever played as a striker before? Not as an out-and-out striker. But when he started at Roma he played in a more advanced role than he has been for us - basically on the shoulder of the defenders but wider than a striker would start. His job seemed to be to try and either break past the defenders to get on the end of through balls or to get the ball wide right and try and beat his man and attack the box. Although he didn't score masses of goals I thu But he was typically several yards further forward than where he has been playing for us. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 I really would rather see him coming on before or instead of Duran, especially when Ollie is still on the pitch. I’m convinced he could impact the game more from a more central position rather than stuck out on the wing (and with more than the last 10 mins to play)… He can be a genuine goal threat… I’m not sure about his creativity as I haven’t seen that demonstrated much but he has technical ability, strength and can finish… Duran is young and needs more development imo… I prefer Nico… But… Unai knows best… 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 (edited) 1 minute ago, Jas10 said: I really would rather see him coming on before or instead of Duran, especially when Ollie is still on the pitch. I’m convinced he could impact the game more from a more central position rather than stuck out on the wing (and with more than the last 10 mins to play)… He can be a genuine goal threat… I’m not sure about his creativity as I haven’t seen that demonstrated much but he has technical ability, strength and can finish… Duran is young and needs more development imo… I prefer Nico… But… Unai knows best… I thought Duran was there purely to be a battering ram vs branthwaite and to be fair it did work to an extent we just didn't do enough Edited January 14 by villa4europe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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