The Moderate Politics Thread

[Marka Ragnos]

Anyone else sort of devoted to or even interested in the political centre of things? Do you consider yourself politically centrist? Will you dare admit it?

I know. It' so boring. This might as well be called The Boring Politics Thread. But I actually find moderate politics fascinating, and more extremist stuff stupid and boring. It almost by definition eschews the juicy, the charged, the acerbic, the raging, the passionate, etc etc. Which is precisely what gets my attention about it. It's the quiet, friendless one, standing in the middle of everyone, and getting ignored.

Here's a pretty non-boring discussion of the complexities of moderate politics. I love this quote:

Quote

When you look in the data, you start to realize it's not just that incumbents are polarizing, all of the people who run for office look really polarized. And so you might be in a situation where voters actually want to support more moderate candidates, but they're just not getting the chance to. It's not that different from thinking in economics about supply and demand.

I meet fewer and fewer political moderates where I live (although that may be subtly changing), but I am told that, long ago, more political moderates were spotted in my homeland. But for the last six years or so, they've been distinctly unfashionable. It is very, very hard to live in the political centre, publicly, where I live. You're continually asked to choose sides.

I'm also a local stander-for-office, and I can tell you that it's SO hard to get elected to anything these days without making strong, pushy, viral-ready statements. But ironically, voters are always telling me how they want more moderation. I don't know if there really know what they want sometimes. And that's OK. Today is complicated.

In any case, I thought I would try a thread devoted to the special problems and trends and hypocrisies and possibilities of moderate politics. Huge disclaimer is that centrist politics are totally relativistic. I get that. My moderate is probably, cards on table, a bit "centre-right" in the UK. The UK centre would be farther left where I live. But it's not that simplistic either, and even accounting for comparative issues, there are certain things I think almost all moderates have to contend with in their countries.

Edited June 17, 2023 by Marka Ragnos

[chrisp65]

I wonder if people only consider something moderate if they personally believe in it?

For instance, I’d put myself forward as having particularly moderate views, such as:

When science shows cars kill less people when they go slower, reduce urban speed limits to 20mph.

Nations are probably best placed to govern themselves.

Every family having affordable access to a home is a greater priority than protecting landlord profits.

 

I would genuinely (no trolling) suggest those are moderate positions to hold. Those that disagree, would not see them as moderate views.

Similarly, there are those in the world that would see firing a selection of semi automatic weapons at a family BBQ as a normal everyday nice reasonable family past time. 

[El Zen]

I consider myself moderately radical, if that helps. 

[KentVillan]

I think critics of centrism are mostly parochially obsessed with self-styled moderates / centrists in their own political sphere.

If you just define centrism as trying to find workable ways forward between conflicting political movements, then it's usually the only way anything good happens.

 

[KentVillan]

1 hour ago, chrisp65 said:

I wonder if people only consider something moderate if they personally believe in it?

For instance, I’d put myself forward as having particularly moderate views, such as:

When science shows cars kill less people when they go slower, reduce urban speed limits to 20mph.

Nations are probably best placed to govern themselves.

Every family having affordable access to a home is a greater priority than protecting landlord profits.

 

I would genuinely (no trolling) suggest those are moderate positions to hold. Those that disagree, would not see them as moderate views.

Similarly, there are those in the world that would see firing a selection of semi automatic weapons at a family BBQ as a normal everyday nice reasonable family past time. 

Centrism is relative to the political context, so there's no contradiction really. A moderate is different in different countries and different eras, or within different movements, but it's still a recognisable tendency in any political context.

[mjmooney]

1 hour ago, chrisp65 said:

I wonder if people only consider something moderate if they personally believe in it?

For instance, I’d put myself forward as having particularly moderate views, such as:

When science shows cars kill less people when they go slower, reduce urban speed limits to 20mph.

Nations are probably best placed to govern themselves.

Every family having affordable access to a home is a greater priority than protecting landlord profits.

 

I would genuinely (no trolling) suggest those are moderate positions to hold. Those that disagree, would not see them as moderate views.

Similarly, there are those in the world that would see firing a selection of semi automatic weapons at a family BBQ as a normal everyday nice reasonable family past time. 

I agree, all eminently reasonable principles. 

But many people both here and (most certainly) in the USA would find them terrifyingly communistic. The irony is that the VAST majority of the population should have no reason to fear them - the small cabal of the disgustingly rich might, however. 

[StefanAVFC]

The issue with centrism is that everyone thinks their views are centrist. 
 

look at this far right arsehole

 

[Follyfoot]

1 hour ago, El Zen said:

I consider myself moderately radical, if that helps. 

Is this a new term for gingernut?

[Panto_Villan]

I'd certainly consider myself politically moderate. I've voted for all the major political parties in this country at one election or another, so I think I'm pretty centrist in UK terms.

Centrism is certainly a difficult place to be in a time when politics has become so tribal and populist across the world. Mostly because it usually involves actually looking at policies and manifestos, and I feel like politicians hardly bother with that any more.

That said in the UK I think there's more recognition that tacking to the center can actually win you an election than there is in the US - admittedly nobody seemed to get the memo at the last UK election, but I'm hoping that's just a blip. I think I'd go insane in the US, frankly. 

Edited June 17, 2023 by Panto_Villan

[MaVilla]

i consider myself a far left far rightist with a dash of centrist.

[Seat68]

I would consider myself moderate. Yes, 

4 minutes ago, Panto_Villan said:

I'd certainly consider myself politically moderate. I've voted for all the major political parties in this country at one election or another, so I think I'm pretty centrist in UK terms.

Centrism is certainly a difficult place to be in a time when politics has become so tribal and populist across the world. Mostly because it usually involves actually looking at policies and manifestos, and I feel like politicians hardly bother with that any more.

That said in the UK I think there's more recognition that tacking to the center can actually win you an election than there is in the US - admittedly nobody seemed to get the memo at the last UK election, but I'm hoping that's just a blip. I think I'd go insane in the US, frankly. 

Would you say that your posts on VillaTalk are an honest reflection of your centrism?

[OutByEaster?]

I think there's an awful lot of leeway in the definitions of moderate and centrist - and I think they're very different things.

I'd say that what's described as centrism in the UK is usually a brand of corporatism - a sort of politics that tries not to do too much that might get in the banks way.

Moderate seems to be one of those words that initially sounds very sensible and actually means absolutely nothing at all.

@Marka Ragnos how would you define the two things?

 

 

 

[KentVillan]

24 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

The issue with centrism is that everyone thinks their views are centrist. 
 

look at this far right arsehole

 

This is a strawman though, because "Sargon of Akkad" is a well known alt-right extremist troll, and the vast majority of people don't regard him as a centrist.

Whereas I think if you talk in relative terms, most observers of all stripes would agree that e.g. Starmer is more centrist than Corbyn, Sunak more centrist than Truss, etc. and whether you agree with them or not, people can see what is meant.

It's like a lot of things, it's not a very precise term, and it's misused a lot... but that doesn't mean it's completely meaningless or just a way for any old loon to portray themselves as moderate / sensible?

[Panto_Villan]

30 minutes ago, Seat68 said:

I would consider myself moderate. Yes, 

Would you say that your posts on VillaTalk are an honest reflection of your centrism?

Yeah, I would - but it's an incomplete version of it.  Would it surprise you to hear my ideal government is something along the lines of New Labour? I assume you have me down as some kind of rabid Tory?

Basically because so many of the posters in Off-Topic clearly have pretty left-leaning views, I end up arguing the right-wing view most of the time - every time someone with right-wing views posts something I disagree with, there's already a dozen people telling him he's wrong, so there's no need for me to get involved. Whereas if someone posts something that looks to me like mindless left-wing tribalism, I generally feel like I need to correct it. I imagine I'd come across like a communist if most of the posters here were right-wing and wanted to talk about cutting immigration and lowering taxes etc.

But I guess that's the point the OP is making, really. You don't win many friends by being a centrist (and/or argumentative).

Edited June 17, 2023 by Panto_Villan

[The Fun Factory]

I am about to have an exotic spresm

[KentVillan]

16 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said:

I am about to have an exotic spresm

This, besides being funny, also highlights the issue with the attacks on centrism.

Usually people dislike specific self-branded centrists and then use this to dismiss the concept in its entirety. But you could easily argue Mandela evolved into a centrist, if you look at the actual context he was operating in, and I imagine most here would regard him as one of the most important figures of the 20th century.

[Demitri_C]

Im definitely more central  i cant stand Conservatives and i also think labour are piss poor.

I won't vote for either of these parties as both have lost their message. Ive voted for both in the past and they are both out of touch with modeen day pEople

id say a majority of this site is more labour than Conservative from what ive seen

[Chindie]

What's moderate?

I'm not a centrist by any means (and even that's a question of perspective, the Overton window shifting) but I don't believe I could be called radical either. But varying levels of right wingers would view me somewhere between threat to society and Satan.

The position is also changeable on different things, even in different 'fields' of political matter you might be moderate on one thing and not in another.

Edited June 17, 2023 by Chindie

[bickster]

Its easier to be on the outside than in the middle

The more extreme your views at either end of the spectrum the more easily defined your beliefs are.

Those at the extremes like things simple, yes the other extreme is the devil but those in the centre are the enemy because being able to see both sides and look for the middle ground without recourse to dogmatic doctrine confuses them

They understand the other extreme far more than they understand the centre ground, which is why you often find centrists being labelled as appeasers / collaborators (of the other extreme)

Being reasonable is threatening so the extremes will always attack the centre far harder than they'll attack the other extreme.

 

 

[KentVillan]

14 minutes ago, bickster said:

Its easier to be on the outside than in the middle

The more extreme your views at either end of the spectrum the more easily defined your beliefs are.

Those at the extremes like things simple, yes the other extreme is the devil but those in the centre are the enemy because being able to see both sides and look for the middle ground without recourse to dogmatic doctrine confuses them

They understand the other extreme far more than they understand the centre ground, which is why you often find centrists being labelled as appeasers / collaborators (of the other extreme)

Being reasonable is threatening so the extremes will always attack the centre far harder than they'll attack the other extreme.

100%

And I think there's this teenage music mentality that creeps in, where people equate centrist politics with bland middle-of-the-road music ... but politics isn't like the arts. It's not about being unique and interesting, it's about achieving positive change.