Pau Torres

[Adam2003]

I absolutely love Mings, hope he plays out his career here, see amazing things in his game that aren’t in Pau’s and think comparison between them is reductive…

…but if people are even having the debate when Mings has been here a number of years and Pau still hasn’t played ten PL games settling into a new league and country, that should tell most people the level he is playing at and that describing it in any way as ‘poor’ is a little silly.

[Stevo985]

2 hours ago, CVByrne said:

The idea is controlling games more, he is a brilliant passer of the ball and carries it forward to open up space. The aim is so we have a set of skilled progressive ball passers in the team, I think right now with Pau, Luiz, Kamara & McGinn we are keeping possession well and we are probing to find the pass into one of our two 10s which immediatly crates a dangerous central attack. The idea is if we control more games and we play the defensive high line we need to do less "defending". I think in games where we expect to have less control and thus defend more the plan is for 3 CBs. If think we've found the balance with Kamara playing in the RCB space and Luiz/McGinn centrally to give the back 3 even when we play 2 CBs. 

But Pau in team = more goals and more control. If we score more than the opposition that's the aim.

This.

It's 2023, this is how good teams play football. Being good in possession IS defensive. You can't score if you don't have the ball.

Why does Pep get mocked for spending a fortune on defenders like Stones because they drop clangers now and then, yet wins every trophy under the sun? Because people still dont' appreciate what having defenders who are that good on the ball brings to a team

[MrBlack]

53 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

This.

It's 2023, this is how good teams play football. Being good in possession IS defensive. You can't score if you don't have the ball.

Why does Pep get mocked for spending a fortune on defenders like Stones because they drop clangers now and then, yet wins every trophy under the sun? Because people still dont' appreciate what having defenders who are that good on the ball brings to a team

You can't concede if you have it either... generally speaking.

Torres is shaping up to be the exceptional defender Emery was telling us all about when we signed him. 

It's the first time he's left the club he was at, let alone the country he was playing in. He got thrown in at the deep end when it was expected he'd have time to get accustomed. 

Considering that, and the other injuries we have across the team, its kind of a miracle we are playing as well as we are.  Pau is a huge part of that, and deserves extra credit for his situation. 

We concede more than last season, but we're also free scoring, and regularly more than the opposition. I suspect with Mings we concede less and score less so possibly end up winning some games we lose, but would also draw or lose games we've won.

[ZL-]

For anyone who can't see how key Pau is to our playstyle this says it all:

Mings passing had improved but was typically less accurate long balls into the channels that dragged Watkins towards the corner flag. Pau's punches into the 10s is so effective and teams have struggled to defend against it all season.

Edited October 24, 2023 by ZL-

[Spoony]

2 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

This.

It's 2023, this is how good teams play football. Being good in possession IS defensive. You can't score if you don't have the ball.

Why does Pep get mocked for spending a fortune on defenders like Stones because they drop clangers now and then, yet wins every trophy under the sun? Because people still dont' appreciate what having defenders who are that good on the ball brings to a team

Good post. I think the same about our high line. Everyone gets their knickers in a twist when it goes wrong but the vast majority of the time it goes right and allows us to really pressure the opponent and we catch many many teams repeatedly offside. 

[Delphinho123]

3 hours ago, Adam2003 said:

I absolutely love Mings, hope he plays out his career here, see amazing things in his game that aren’t in Pau’s and think comparison between them is reductive…

…but if people are even having the debate when Mings has been here a number of years and Pau still hasn’t played ten PL games settling into a new league and country, that should tell most people the level he is playing at and that describing it in any way as ‘poor’ is a little silly.

But some of his defending has been poor though. 

[Tom13]

On 23/10/2023 at 08:55, Delphinho123 said:

I saw someone put together a video compilation of his passing and he’s literally passing it side to side under no pressure and everybody was jizzing themselves over it.

So what? Have you honestly not seen enough yourself to see that he's unbelievable on the ball?

[Tom13]

5 hours ago, Delphinho123 said:

Not sure I follow. I believe we’d probably have a point or two more.

Torres has done ok. Played a couple of nice balls but has been poor defensively. 

'Played a couple of nice balls' I believe you're on a windup here.

[DCJonah]

He obviously helps at times but I still have some concerns. 

2-1 up and he allows Antonio, who was awful, to easily go past him and get a dangerous cross in which could have been the equaliser. 

He also plays an awful pass just before our 3rd goal. Straight to their player in the middle of the park, which if he'd controlled it would have been dangerous. 

I'm sure he'll get better and better but he still worries me at times. But just like the way we've played under Emery, I'm sure I'll get used to his game and the positives he brings. 

[turvontour]

19 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

He obviously helps at times but I still have some concerns. 

2-1 up and he allows Antonio, who was awful, to easily go past him and get a dangerous cross in which could have been the equaliser. 

He also plays an awful pass just before our 3rd goal. Straight to their player in the middle of the park, which if he'd controlled it would have been dangerous. 

I'm sure he'll get better and better but he still worries me at times. But just like the way we've played under Emery, I'm sure I'll get used to his game and the positives he brings. 

I suppose that's why he was £30million and not £60million.

[Tom13]

25 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

He obviously helps at times but I still have some concerns. 

2-1 up and he allows Antonio, who was awful, to easily go past him and get a dangerous cross in which could have been the equaliser. 

He also plays an awful pass just before our 3rd goal. Straight to their player in the middle of the park, which if he'd controlled it would have been dangerous. 

I'm sure he'll get better and better but he still worries me at times. But just like the way we've played under Emery, I'm sure I'll get used to his game and the positives he brings. 

I think Pau's quality but there's been a couple of occasions now where he dangles a lazy leg and someone's gone past him easily, Antonio being one, Neto another. Surely being a pro defender he knows he should be standing a player up rather than making it that easy for them. Even if you're not tackling them you're preventing/delaying them getting to the dangerous area.

[Stevo985]

1 hour ago, Spoony said:

Good post. I think the same about our high line. Everyone gets their knickers in a twist when it goes wrong but the vast majority of the time it goes right and allows us to really pressure the opponent and we catch many many teams repeatedly offside. 

Same with how Zonal Marking has been for over 10 years.

When it goes wrong everyone jumps on it, despite the advantages it gives you all the other times

[Adam2003]

1 hour ago, Delphinho123 said:

But some of his defending has been poor though. 

You’re right and I saw Michael Jordan miss a couple of free throws once and Messi miss an open goal

[Mazrim]

He's not perfect, he's still adjusting to the league. But he's going to be a top player for us. I'm a big fan.

His range of passing and composure is essential to how we want to play. I'll take a bit of rough for the promise of a whole lotta smooth (cue Kenneth).

[TRO]

6 hours ago, Adam2003 said:

I absolutely love Mings, hope he plays out his career here, see amazing things in his game that aren’t in Pau’s and think comparison between them is reductive…

…but if people are even having the debate when Mings has been here a number of years and Pau still hasn’t played ten PL games settling into a new league and country, that should tell most people the level he is playing at and that describing it in any way as ‘poor’ is a little silly.

Mings and Torres have different attributes, despite both being left footers and centre Backs.

Torres is still acclimatising to the league, and doing very nicely.....Ty still has a huge future with us.

Ezri is different again.....as is Carlos.....but that diversity is key, we don't want them all the same.

Edited October 24, 2023 by TRO

[tinker]

3 hours ago, Spoony said:

Good post. I think the same about our high line. Everyone gets their knickers in a twist when it goes wrong but the vast majority of the time it goes right and allows us to really pressure the opponent and we catch many many teams repeatedly offside. 

See this comment by our opposition fans, "villas highline is easy to exploit" "just knock balls over the top" "we can get behind them" all its shows is their ignorance as to the way Emery wants us to play involving our highline.

We have all had to learn this lesson and stay patient when our past gut feeling has been "clear your lines" " get rid of it" .

Sooner or later teams will catch on, I watched a bit of Fulham v Spurs last night and Fulham seemed to be passing around a fair bit at the back, they never had their support from the midfield we have or the clinical finishing and creativity up front and it fell apart..

[DaveAV1]

4 hours ago, Delphinho123 said:

But some of his defending has been poor though. 

Coming into a new country and the PL is a steep learning curve. He’s doing well atvehst he’s always done well and will continue to improve on things thst he has to improve on that takes time. He’s in the right place with the right manager to help him improve what he needs to improve as well as developing his strengths too. 

Edited October 24, 2023 by DaveAV1

[Zatman]

1 hour ago, tinker said:

See this comment by our opposition fans, "villas highline is easy to exploit" "just knock balls over the top" "we can get behind them" all its shows is their ignorance as to the way Emery wants us to play involving our highline.

We have all had to learn this lesson and stay patient when our past gut feeling has been "clear your lines" " get rid of it" .

Sooner or later teams will catch on, I watched a bit of Fulham v Spurs last night and Fulham seemed to be passing around a fair bit at the back, they never had their support from the midfield we have or the clinical finishing and creativity up front and it fell apart..

Didnt Spurs try this last season and I might be wrong but they might have broke the record for most offsides in a game or maybe was one of the players

[briny_ear]

7 hours ago, DCJonah said:

He obviously helps at times but I still have some concerns. 

2-1 up and he allows Antonio, who was awful, to easily go past him and get a dangerous cross in which could have been the equaliser. 

He also plays an awful pass just before our 3rd goal. Straight to their player in the middle of the park, which if he'd controlled it would have been dangerous. 

I'm sure he'll get better and better but he still worries me at times. But just like the way we've played under Emery, I'm sure I'll get used to his game and the positives he brings. 

I guess some Villa fans just worry a lot. I do understand, I do it myself - then I look at the table and remind myself we are 5th, 11 home wins in a row, 2nd best record in 2023, etc., etc.

It’s a legacy issue. The past weighs heavy on us, we have seen so many false dawns, so many charlatans who wasted the club’s money. 

But it feels like this has changed. As far as we can tell, Torres was chosen by Emery as one of his targets. He is exactly the sort of player Emery wants in the defence and he knows how to play the Emery way.

Really, I think we should all relax and enjoy all these high scoring wins and not be constantly seeking out negative points to dwell on.

[MWARLEY2]

I got upset on sunday at one point and was swearing at the tele when he got the runaround at one point.  So i realised i was being a dickhead and then decided to have a logical think about why i was like that...and i think its this. 

Firstly for the last 4 seasons our starting centrebacks have been Mings and Konsa for 90 percent of the time. So we have been used to having 2 centre backs with great recovery ability  and athleticism and pace. And also with Mings an ultra dominant centre half at heading corners and crosses clear  . 

Torres is the complete opposite. Not got that natural athleticism balance and pace of the other two.  Players can beat him very easily . But as a passer of the ball he is easily the best of our centre backs.  Konsa has learned about how to pass so much in the laat 12 months but he is just prodding it or playing it to Luiz .  Rather than before where he would just pass it sidewards to Mings 90 percent of the time. 

Torres is a quarterback of a player . He can hit it 50 yards on a six pence. Its no coincidence that Diaby has been bought and then turned into a floating second striker. Him and McGinn seem to be the outball for Torres when we want a quick transition.  They take the ball on the half turn and then drive before finding Watkins if possible . 

We are simply not used to seeing this after 4 years of quick strong centre backs . Our ability to play through around and over defences has never been better. We now have answers for most situations  . We have taken a small hit on solidity to increase our threat further up  .