rodders0223 Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 This thread has been mental since his first game. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 12 hours ago, Delphinho123 said: Ok. Nothing special tbh. People praising simple passes and ignoring the risky ones that will be punished. Mings played much better and received less praise. The fact were 5th and 2pts off 1st with a new CB pairing is a thing of wonder. Generally speaking poor results can follow with new CB pairing early on but here we are. I guess some people are just permanent nit-picking, glass half empty types. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphinho123 Posted October 23, 2023 Author Share Posted October 23, 2023 11 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said: The fact were 5th and 2pts off 1st with a new CB pairing is a thing of wonder. Generally speaking poor results can follow with new CB pairing early on but here we are. I guess some people are just permanent nit-picking, glass half empty types. We’d be in the same position, possibly with a point or two more with Mings. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Stevo985 Posted October 23, 2023 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted October 23, 2023 1 minute ago, Delphinho123 said: We’d be in the same position, possibly with a point or two more with Mings. You're probably right, because as you say Mings is a very good player and leader. But given we're, as you've admitted, in the same position, it's probably testament to Pau doing a pretty good job too. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 10 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said: We’d be in the same position, possibly with a point or two more with Mings. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphinho123 Posted October 23, 2023 Author Share Posted October 23, 2023 16 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: You're probably right, because as you say Mings is a very good player and leader. But given we're, as you've admitted, in the same position, it's probably testament to Pau doing a pretty good job too. I’d say that’s a fair assessment. I just find it odd he gets so much praise for the simple stuff that Mings could do (and a helluva lot more). I saw someone put together a video compilation of his passing and he’s literally passing it side to side under no pressure and everybody was jizzing themselves over it. He’s nothing special for me, not yet anyway. I actually think Konsa, Digne and Cash have been very, very good this season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted October 23, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted October 23, 2023 22 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said: I’d say that’s a fair assessment. I just find it odd he gets so much praise for the simple stuff that Mings could do (and a helluva lot more). I saw someone put together a video compilation of his passing and he’s literally passing it side to side under no pressure and everybody was jizzing themselves over it. He’s nothing special for me, not yet anyway. I actually think Konsa, Digne and Cash have been very, very good this season. There's some things Mings can do that Pau never could. There's some things Pau does that Mings never could. They're very different Centrebacks. Pau is in a different league to Mings when it comes to passing the ball 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post villanmac Posted October 23, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted October 23, 2023 People who don't rate Pau Torres passing have pressed X too many times on Fifa. Those passes might look like a piece of piss on the TV but from the CB position where you don't have the vantage of seeing the full pitch and you have the full 10 in front of you its insanely difficult to see and make the pass quick enough. From CB is so hard to gauge the space the midfielder/attacking has and the pass has to be so quick and accurate if its being played in the middle of the pitch. As a skill, it's a totally different level to playing passes over the top or chipped over to the full backs and obviously does so much more damage as players get the ball into feet in more central areas which turns the opposition. We are free scoring now because either Luiz or Kamara can start further up the pitch and don't have to drop back into our half to receive from the CBs start us off. That is one thing you can appreciate though from the Upper Trinity or Doug and the first thing that hits you this season watching us play, it was v Everton the first game when you could see the difference it makes to the shape off the ball and how we can have these players start 10 yards further up the field and its why we can have the likes of Zaniolo/Diaby stay so close to Watkins. I half put it down to Everton being shite that day then but its been the same ever since. 18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reivax_Villa Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 Honestly, I am still trying to get my head around a CB that excels in passing more than defending. During 1v1 situation on the break he gets twisted pretty easily which means he requires cover.. Because he is so elegant and gifted as a ball playing defender its one of those situations that if we win he gets the plaundits for a masterclass performance. I am not convinced by his defensive abilities.. Rarely do I see him win aerial battles or get the better of a player in 1v1 situations.. I am optimistic that he will find his feet in terms of the defensive side of the game. Offensively he offers something that no other Defender has in a Villa shirt.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheltenham_villa Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 2 hours ago, Delphinho123 said: We’d be in the same position, possibly with a point or two more with Mings. Maybe, im not convinced ive seen Konsa play as well with Mings next to him. Konsa has commented similar that Mings being unavailable he led to him taking more responsibility. I just wish we had Mings and Pau available. Certainly we have games where it would have been great to pick, or play Pau at left back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DakotaVilla Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 He’s nowhere near as bad defensively as some point out but is absolutely a key reason why we are scoring so many more goals this season. Him and Konsa are a joy to watch when they step out and are only going to continue to get better. Digne has played well but Moreno will release another level to Pau when he is back. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody1000 Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 2 hours ago, Delphinho123 said: We’d be in the same position, possibly with a point or two more with Mings. So we would’ve drawn against Newcastle and/or Liverpool? Or you saying that we win the Wolves game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphinho123 Posted October 23, 2023 Author Share Posted October 23, 2023 3 minutes ago, Woody1000 said: So we would’ve drawn against Newcastle and/or Liverpool? Or you saying that we win the Wolves game? Not sure. I think Torres cost us against Liverpool and we were badly affected by Mings injury up at Newcastle. Wolves. Tough one. Does Mings do better against Neto for the goal? Possibly, but Neto is a very good player. Torres has done ok. He's adapting to a new league and he's clearly comfortable on the ball. That said, I still don't think he's a patch on Mings. Not yet anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post andym Posted October 23, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted October 23, 2023 2 hours ago, villanmac said: People who don't rate Pau Torres passing have pressed X too many times on Fifa. Those passes might look like a piece of piss on the TV but from the CB position where you don't have the vantage of seeing the full pitch and you have the full 10 in front of you its insanely difficult to see and make the pass quick enough. From CB is so hard to gauge the space the midfielder/attacking has and the pass has to be so quick and accurate if its being played in the middle of the pitch. As a skill, it's a totally different level to playing passes over the top or chipped over to the full backs and obviously does so much more damage as players get the ball into feet in more central areas which turns the opposition. We are free scoring now because either Luiz or Kamara can start further up the pitch and don't have to drop back into our half to receive from the CBs start us off. That is one thing you can appreciate though from the Upper Trinity or Doug and the first thing that hits you this season watching us play, it was v Everton the first game when you could see the difference it makes to the shape off the ball and how we can have these players start 10 yards further up the field and its why we can have the likes of Zaniolo/Diaby stay so close to Watkins. I half put it down to Everton being shite that day then but its been the same ever since. Our first goal is a great example. His initial body shape and ball position are saying 'this is going across the pitch', either the simple ball to Kamara or Konsa or the big switch out to Cash. The two West Ham players in line with the ref (Ward Prowse and Souchek i think?) have played for this by shifting left. Which is just enough room for Pau to quickly switch the ball to his right foot and fire the ball forwards to Diaby who is about to drop into the space to the right of Ward Prowse - and we are up the field with the ball in the net 30 seconds later. A still image doesn't quite show the subtleness of his movement to basically bait the West Ham players into moving to give him the gap for the pass. The equivalent of a striker giving the keeper the eyes. He does this a lot, and i agree i don't think its any coincidence that we look really dangerous this season going forwards with him in the team. Diego Carlos is also very good at threading balls into those pockets of space, but Torres basically runs our build up play. There's plenty of examples of chances and goals where on the face of it, he's just played an easy pass out to Digne or whoever several phases earlier. But then you look again and see the positioning he took, the timing of the pass, drawing the opposition and creating the space for another player to receive the ball in and get running at the opposition. 14 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 His passing is levels above any defender we’ve had at this club in a long time. And given how we play, it’s vital to getting players like Diaby on the ball in space. Defensively he’s decent enough, not world class, but when the team plays well he does his job 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishVilla10 Posted October 24, 2023 Share Posted October 24, 2023 14 hours ago, Delphinho123 said: Not sure. I think Torres cost us against Liverpool and we were badly affected by Mings injury up at Newcastle. Wolves. Tough one. Does Mings do better against Neto for the goal? Possibly, but Neto is a very good player. Torres has done ok. He's adapting to a new league and he's clearly comfortable on the ball. That said, I still don't think he's a patch on Mings. Not yet anyway. Giving Trent all the time in the world and allowing Salah, diaz and nunez to run at us cost us against Liverpool. Mings defensively is more sound for now, but with the ball at their feet it isn’t close. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted October 24, 2023 Share Posted October 24, 2023 18 hours ago, Delphinho123 said: We’d be in the same position, possibly with a point or two more with Mings. I love this - how elegantly you undermine the entire argument against Torres by admitting we would be little or no better off with Mings in his place! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphinho123 Posted October 24, 2023 Author Share Posted October 24, 2023 4 hours ago, briny_ear said: I love this - how elegantly you undermine the entire argument against Torres by admitting we would be little or no better off with Mings in his place! Not sure I follow. I believe we’d probably have a point or two more. Torres has done ok. Played a couple of nice balls but has been poor defensively. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted October 24, 2023 Share Posted October 24, 2023 20 hours ago, Reivax_Villa said: Honestly, I am still trying to get my head around a CB that excels in passing more than defending. During 1v1 situation on the break he gets twisted pretty easily which means he requires cover.. Because he is so elegant and gifted as a ball playing defender its one of those situations that if we win he gets the plaundits for a masterclass performance. I am not convinced by his defensive abilities.. Rarely do I see him win aerial battles or get the better of a player in 1v1 situations.. I am optimistic that he will find his feet in terms of the defensive side of the game. Offensively he offers something that no other Defender has in a Villa shirt.. The idea is controlling games more, he is a brilliant passer of the ball and carries it forward to open up space. The aim is so we have a set of skilled progressive ball passers in the team, I think right now with Pau, Luiz, Kamara & McGinn we are keeping possession well and we are probing to find the pass into one of our two 10s which immediatly crates a dangerous central attack. The idea is if we control more games and we play the defensive high line we need to do less "defending". I think in games where we expect to have less control and thus defend more the plan is for 3 CBs. If think we've found the balance with Kamara playing in the RCB space and Luiz/McGinn centrally to give the back 3 even when we play 2 CBs. But Pau in team = more goals and more control. If we score more than the opposition that's the aim. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted October 24, 2023 Share Posted October 24, 2023 If you exclude Tielemans (who has 9.41 progressive passers per 90 this season but hasn't started a game yet). Our top 3 are McGinn and Luiz on 5.9 and 5.83 and then Pau on 4.48. While on Progressive Carries he's there on same level as McGinn 1.33 to 1.26. So he's one of the 2 sixes but in the 3rd line. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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