Pau Torres

[Wainy316]

He'll come good.  I'm just worried about us carrying him until he does.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

19 minutes ago, Wainy316 said:

He'll come good.  I'm just worried about us carrying him until he does.

This is where i'm at.

Mentioned yesterday that i'm not sure how much of a " bedding in " period we can afford if it continues to cost us goals.

Obviously a very good footballer but I have similar worries to others.

I personally think he'd make a great DM/Sweeper.

In fairness to @Zatman he expressed these reservations way out.

Hopefully, we can get him in the gym and get him more accustomed to the PL side of the game, if he can combine physicality with his passing and game reading he can be some player.

Basically, if we could splice him and Mings together, we have an elite defender.

Again, due to our  current status as a club, it's hard for us to get the complete package type players, we have to take some risks until we get there.

I'm sure Unai is aware of there differences between PL and La Liga, so he must have deep faith in the ability of Torres to break through the mould and make it.

One person noted that one borderline positive, was that he seemed to be stubborn in his persistence to continue with the play style even after the clanger, so must be confident in his own ability.

Edited September 4, 2023 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[Captain_Townsend]

I wish we weren't so quick to go looking for scapegoats. 

[alreadyexists]

Nah, he’ll come good, just getting up to speed against a very good and well trained Liverpool side. 

[VillanousOne]

I think Emery needs to look at our playing out of the back and high line tactics.

It took Mings a fair bit of time to lead the organisation of that and even then every team we've played who play an aggressive high press has caused us problems.

If we don't press ourselves and close down quickly then we just get our arse handed to us, for some reason we didn't against Liverpool - despite doing this the last time we played them.

This is as much about Torres being green as it is opposition coaches knowing exactly how to exploit our weaknesses.

Cash and Digne have zero defensive footballing brain when it comes to dealing with any press or fast counters - for Pau to have a chance at bedding into this league we have to look at our shape.

[PaulC]

To me its not the tactics, its the players just didn't perform at the level that is expected. I thought we got rid of this malaise under Emery but it's happened twice in four games now. This is the old Villa whst we were like under Smith and Gerrard. Concede a goal and fall to pieces.

[Risso]

47 minutes ago, Captain_Townsend said:

I wish we weren't so quick to go looking for scapegoats. 

I wish that people wouldn't be so quick to completely misuse the word scapegoat.

[VillanousOne]

6 minutes ago, PaulC said:

To me its not the tactics, its the players just didn't perform at the level that is expected. I thought we got rid of this malaise under Emery but it's happened twice in four games now. This is the old Villa whst we were like under Smith and Gerrard. Concede a goal and fall to pieces.

Cash, Digne have never dealt well with a high press.

Kamara and Doug aren't brilliant either. Konsa is better but capable of making mistakes under pressure (see Newcastle). 

Pau has come from a league where you get more time and space, people forget Carlos has only played 4 Prem games.

That back four will continue to get ripped apart by any of the Top 6 clubs unless they learn quickly or we play differently.

If you can't successfully play out from the back when you have players running at you, stop trying...

[duke313]

25 minutes ago, VillanousOne said:

I think Emery needs to look at our playing out of the back and high line tactics.

It took Mings a fair bit of time to lead the organisation of that and even then every team we've played who play an aggressive high press has caused us problems.

If we don't press ourselves and close down quickly then we just get our arse handed to us, for some reason we didn't against Liverpool - despite doing this the last time we played them.

This is as much about Torres being green as it is opposition coaches knowing exactly how to exploit our weaknesses.

Cash and Digne have zero defensive footballing brain when it comes to dealing with any press or fast counters - for Pau to have a chance at bedding into this league we have to look at our shape.

How is Torres green? He played this exact way under Emery at Villarreal. Unless you mean green as in new to the league?

[AshVilla]

Needs to toughen up a bit against Palace if that Mateta comes on he can be a bit of handful.

[Risso]

8 minutes ago, AshVilla said:

Needs to toughen up a bit against Palace if that Mateta comes on he can be a bit of handful.

Agreed. I think Torres will be OK when there's not much pace or phyicality to handle, as was the case with Everton and to a lesser extent Burnley (where he got done badly). Palace aren't a great team, but do have pace and power up front, so I think he'll struggle. If I was Emery my back four would be Cash-Konsa-Carlos-Digne for the immediate future.

[birdman]

Pau is clearly comfortable on the ball but you can't take time and space for granted in the Premer League. Fortunately most teams arent as good as Liverpool as exposing a (badly executed) high line and the midfield definitely do the defenders any favours with their lack of pressing, but it was certainly a wake a up call. Also ideally he'll learn how to be a bit of a bully like Mings. He needs to toughen up and be more aggressive when needed. Early days though and Unai will probably smooth out the teething problems. 

[VillanousOne]

1 hour ago, duke313 said:

How is Torres green? He played this exact way under Emery at Villarreal. Unless you mean green as in new to the league?

that's indeed what i meant

[TRO]

On 06/08/2023 at 14:09, Mazrim said:

The quick judgement over this guy is a bit of a joke to be honest. He's going to be class for us.

I am not trying to be argumentative, but you have done just that.

What do you mean/ he is going to be class?.....I am not sure what that is meant to mean.....class defender, class passer, class footballer?......Messi and Ronaldo are/was class players, but not at defending they wasn't.

I was over the moon, when we signed such a revered player.....but the general consensus is,the first pre-requisite of a centre back is to defend.

His undoubted skills of playing out from the back, are there for all to see.....but his main job in his position(imo) is to stop goals going in and help defend the area...otherwise, you may as well have a midfielder playing there.

I accept, the notion that players have to settle in, and the disruption in the back 4 has been well documented....but right now, that back four is  extremely rocky.

I too, am tempted to say, He will be really good for us......but it would be based on pure gut feel and not much else.

[RichW]

Still very early days with Torres. When we signed him the main concern was whether he could cope with being targeted especially physically in the tough away games and just off Newcastle and Liverpool alone we've not seen anything to ease those fears. Was also poor for the goal Burnley scored last week. This could be why he was linked with a lot of the top clubs but none of them decided to try and buy him.

Hopefully in a few months we will be looking back laughing at what we were saying, unfortunately the injury to Mings has stopped him being eased in to the line-up like Emery would have wanted. 

[Marka Ragnos]

On 06/08/2023 at 09:36, sne said:

I'm delighted with this signing and once everything is settled later in the season I think he will play alongside Mings at CB even thou Konsa looks good and dare I say a bit stronger this pre season than he was last year.

Pau needs a few months to get bedded in. He's very skillful. I'm rightly sceptical about oversimplifying comments suggesting as settled "law" that the PL is somehow too "physical" for a Spanish player. The reality in comparing the leagues in terms of overall physicality is much more complicated, and there are different kinds of intensity, according to the little research data we have. A lot of the reputational stuff is based on silly stereotypes, but of course, that doesn't mean some of it isn't true. I don't know. Pau needs time to learn the PL, too, and have his defense and midfield settled. It's been musical chairs for weeks now due to injuries. 

Edited September 4, 2023 by Marka Ragnos

[PaulC]

11 hours ago, VillanousOne said:

Cash, Digne have never dealt well with a high press.

Kamara and Doug aren't brilliant either. Konsa is better but capable of making mistakes under pressure (see Newcastle). 

Pau has come from a league where you get more time and space, people forget Carlos has only played 4 Prem games.

That back four will continue to get ripped apart by any of the Top 6 clubs unless they learn quickly or we play differently.

If you can't successfully play out from the back when you have players running at you, stop trying...

Doesn't matter what the tactics are if  you are only getting 5/10 performances from most of the outfield players you won't win. I don't even think the press was that high.

[Anything11]

our structural baseline has dipped from the strong end to last season due to injuries

torres has played terribly at times however it isn't helped by the fact that in two of our biggest games thus far the whole team has shrunk and no one is playing with real confidence. not knowing wether to stick or twist leads to terrible play

[KentVillan]

Ballplaying CBs often look terrible when they first make a move like this. I’m really not worried.

That Liverpool attack is world class, and very, very quick. How often will he be facing that kind of onslaught?

[villa4europe]

21 hours ago, Captain_Townsend said:

I wish we weren't so quick to go looking for scapegoats. 

Agree

But it's OK to criticise him for Sunday, he was really poor