Talldarkandransome Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 1 hour ago, markavfc40 said: I'd take a cup win all day long over qualification for Champions League. My eldest daughter is 26 this year and has had a season ticket since she was 5 and has never seen us win anything. There are thousands of supporters like her. 28 years since we last won a trophy so we haven't won a trophy this century. SHA have won a trophy more recently than us and I have some of them often remind me of that fact. Champions league qualification doesn't guarantee future success. Far from it. A trophy in the cabinet can never be taken away though and will be something we'll talk about until our last breaths. I'm greedy, I want both. Champs League qualification will be ahead of schedule I think, so we might get battered every game. But we might not. The trophy will give me more pleasure this season though, I'll get more banter out of 4th than pleasure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 I watched Dortmund last night, having not given a monkeys about UCL matches in a loooong time. The rules are the rules, as long as there is the chance of a little insurance policy to get us into UCL then I am paying attention. Each to their own though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 2 hours ago, LondonLax said: It’s worth considering that the nations which get the two extra Champions League places this year will then have a disadvantage when competing for who gets gets the two extra spots next year as their coefficient will be divided by an extra team in Europe. And the main factor that that extra team will (in all likelihood) be worse than the others that would have made it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 1 hour ago, Pongo Waring said: Villa can reach the Semi's of the UCL next season. This Dortmund team isn't great all and they did it. Steady on, let's focus on getting to the conference league semi final first! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke313 Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 Seems like Arsene Wenger convinced a lot of people that winning the "4th place trophy" is more important than winning actual trophies. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 In terms of points. There's no difference between the competitions now? 2 point for a win, 1 point draw and 1 point bonus qualifying for next round? Winning a final gets you 2 points for a win and another point? Or just the 2 points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 5 minutes ago, duke313 said: Seems like Arsene Wenger convinced a lot of people that winning the "4th place trophy" is more important than winning actual trophies. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 6 minutes ago, duke313 said: Seems like Arsene Wenger convinced a lot of people that winning the "4th place trophy" is more important than winning actual trophies. It is sadly more important in terms of money but as Danny Blanchflower once said the game should be about the glory. And it would be glorious to see Villa lift a trophy on a hot Athens night in late May. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 (edited) 14 minutes ago, duke313 said: Seems like Arsene Wenger convinced a lot of people that winning the "4th place trophy" is more important than winning actual trophies. I think what's being discussed in this thread has two right answers. The importance of the money the champions league brings is real. It let's us sign an extra player we otherwise couldn't, or hold on to a player we'd otherwise have to sell. Let alone factoring in the players we might lose who want to go and play Champions League. But the memories and enjoyment brought by winning a competition and getting some silverware are massive in their own right. It has simply been too long. Weighing up which is more important will be different for everyone. Some will look longer term, and believe the CL qualification brings the possibility of bigger and more sustained success, but no guarantees. Some will prefer the guarantee of success, and with that the possibility of further/ greater success at a sightly lower probability. For me, I'm the latter. Obviously, I want both. But winning the UECL, guaranteeing entry into the Europa League (Emery's playground), and the fact it leaves Emery something more to achieve with us for a longer time (and hence more likely he stays with us) is just winning if I was forced to pick a preference. I'm not though, and I'm sure we can do both. Edited April 17 by MrBlack 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVTuco Posted April 17 VT Supporter Share Posted April 17 1 hour ago, markavfc40 said: I'd take a cup win all day long over qualification for Champions League. My eldest daughter is 26 this year and has had a season ticket since she was 5 and has never seen us win anything. There are thousands of supporters like her. 28 years since we last won a trophy so we haven't won a trophy this century. SHA have won a trophy more recently than us and I have some of them often remind me of that fact. Champions league qualification doesn't guarantee future success. Far from it. A trophy in the cabinet can never be taken away though and will be something we'll talk about until our last breaths. Agree with this. No question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaAlex Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 13 minutes ago, Jareth said: After the highs of winning this and the Peace Cup id definitely choose a trophy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 16 minutes ago, duke313 said: Seems like Arsene Wenger convinced a lot of people that winning the "4th place trophy" is more important than winning actual trophies. No, the money generated is more important to the long term success of the club. Winning one trophy is always special but hopefully the money generated will aid us be more competitive so we can win multiple trophies in the future, but the longer the money divide in football continues the further away we fall. So winning one trophy is fabulous but I think we need the money to remain competitive and not lose our key players and maybe even our manager. Nothing to do with Wenger but more to do reality of being competitive and not losing key personnel because other clubs offer them CL and more money. Currently, financially because of FFP/PSR/UEFA rules we are going into a gun fight with a pea shooter in regards to elite end football. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post duke313 Posted April 17 Popular Post Share Posted April 17 1 minute ago, nick76 said: No, the money generated is more important to the long term success of the club. Winning one trophy is always special but hopefully the money generated will aid us be more competitive so we can win multiple trophies in the future, but the longer the money divide in football continues the further away we fall. So winning one trophy is fabulous but I think we need the money to remain competitive and not lose our key players and maybe even our manager. Nothing to do with Wenger but more to do reality of being competitive and not losing key personnel because other clubs offer them CL and more money. Currently, financially because of FFP/PSR/UEFA rules we are going into a gun fight with a pea shooter in regards to elite end football. What long term success have Spurs had? Hosting a Beyonce concert? A Patriots game? I'd say the majority of their fans would trade all that in and CL football to win a few trophies. 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Mic09 Posted April 17 Popular Post Share Posted April 17 6 minutes ago, nick76 said: No, the money generated is more important to the long term success of the club. Winning one trophy is always special but hopefully the money generated will aid us be more competitive so we can win multiple trophies in the future, but the longer the money divide in football continues the further away we fall. So winning one trophy is fabulous but I think we need the money to remain competitive and not lose our key players and maybe even our manager. So you would rather have the money generated in order to win trophies rather than... winning trophies? 4 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 (edited) 11 minutes ago, duke313 said: What long term success have Spurs had? Hosting a Beyonce concert? A Patriots game? I'd say the majority of their fans would trade all that in and CL football to win a few trophies. Look at the side we beat on the weekend - long term CL side, loads of income… and they’ve got maybe 4 FA Cup wins in the last 20ish years to show for it? Edit: and that’s a genuinely big side, competing for things. The CL provides a bit more money and the chance to see Villa play a “big side”. That’s it. Edited April 17 by bobzy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayEm Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 (edited) I think one reason some people really want CL, even over the Conference League trophy, is just a sense that absolutely nothing is guaranteed in football, and we've had bright horizons before that have faded away when we've not quite managed to make the next step up. I love this club right now -- I love Emi, I love Dougie, I love Ollie, I love the whole squad and most of all I love Unai. I don't want this fairytale era to end, and the best way to ensure it doesn't just yet seems, to me, to be getting into the Champions League now rather than later. It's absolutely fine to want a trophy more -- to each their own, and I come down on that side of things some days -- but I don't think those fan who would prioritise Champions League football are necessarily any shallower or missing something about football. Edited April 17 by jayEm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke313 Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 4 minutes ago, bobzy said: Look at the side we beat on the weekend - long term CL side, loads of income… and they’ve got maybe 4 FA Cup wins in the last 20ish years to show for it? Edit: and that’s a genuinely big side, competing for things. The CL provides a bit more money and the chance to see Villa play a “big side”. That’s it. There is a literally a thread on the Spurs forum where some of their fans don't even want CL football, as they gain nothing from it. Qualify for CL, get eliminated, nothing to show for it, rinse and repeat, and then their owners pocket the extra revenue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post rubberman Posted April 17 Popular Post Share Posted April 17 Winning a european trophy would be amazing. Getting 4th in the PL would be amazing. Both would/will be fan-bleeding-tastic. What a season we are having to even be able to have this debate. 4 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkLillis Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 (edited) I see it like this… Do we want a trophy to shut the Bluenoses up? I’d wager that the majority of us do. They won’t shut up they will just tell us it’s the European pub league. Of course we know it’s not just like we knew the League Cup isn’t a Micky Mouse Cup back in 2011. Trophies were what it’s all about once and they still have to be the aim but football is different now. The top level is about money and I want Villa to operate at the top level. This for me is like the marshmallow test where they leave a kid in a room with a marshmallow and tell him not to eat it because if he waits he can have two. For me I’ll take CL and 8 massive matches next year along with the opportunity to continue operating at the level we have this season over an admittedly wonderful one off experience in Athens. Edited April 17 by MarkLillis 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 8 minutes ago, MarkLillis said: I see it like this… Do we want a trophy to shut the Bluenoses up? I’d wager that the majority of us do. Nah, I don't care about them one bit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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