tomav84 Posted February 18 VT Supporter Share Posted February 18 2 minutes ago, Davkaus said: Ultimately this is very silly and we're getting dozens of pages out of something we really don't know the facts of, at all. But yeah, these allegations would have gained absolutely zero traction if the story was "some mediocre performers were told to move on, following all relevant laws and processes, oh, and nobody was called a cocksucker by senior management". the suggestions of us being in an FFP hole and disregard to FA rules have been largely overlooked and are also particularly worrying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted February 18 VT Supporter Share Posted February 18 2 minutes ago, QldVilla said: Alleged, let me know when they are actually factual as the media appears to have to have given the accusations so far a big miss. yes, we're talking about allegations, no one is saying they're factual. but there's a lot of smoke here (based on several reputable people with connections to the club indicating there's truth to them) that means that it's worth discussing 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 3 minutes ago, Davkaus said: Ultimately this is very silly and we're getting dozens of pages out of something we really don't know the facts of, at all. But yeah, these allegations would have gained absolutely zero traction if the story was "some mediocre performers were told to move on, following all relevant laws and processes, oh, and nobody was called a cocksucker by senior management". That's the thing with businesses in general though isn't it, nobody who losses their job considers themselves mediocre performers being moved on, they will consider themselves harshly and unfairly treated And as I said before who at the club at what kind of level would actually know if the right processes were followed or not? Unless it's someone fairly high up in the HR department who wrote that letter (and again the language of it suggests that it's not) I don't see how they would know any of this other than gossip The stuff about Hatton employing his pals without following the right process, the person who knows that to be fact and fully understand what Hatton did and how and is in a position to prove it is not the trainee in accounts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 19 hours ago, thunderball said: I agree, and that’s great if you have infinite funds. What you need is value for money, and don’t mistake revenue for profit. Two examples, the figures are broad for simplicity: 1. Look at our revenue per supporter, it’s terrible. I would suggest it’s easier to try and double our revenue on existing supporters than building more seats. Get this right first. 2. 8,000 new seats at a cost of £100m = £12,500 per seat. Avg. season ticket price £650/ seat per year. Repayment before profit is 20 years. This does not include interest, nor loss of revenue while building takes place. Its crude but it shows it’s not a tap that suddenly pours out profit. I would suggest larger, modern facilities with better catering and lavish corporate will extract more £ per supporter/visitor. Villa could/should be the biggest regional stadium that attracts all the secondary entertainment too. That’s what Spurs and Arsenal have done, and Highbury/White Hart Lane had as much sentimental value to them as VillaPark to us. I think pouring £100m into 8000 new seats when the ground is outdated for the modern footballing economics is a complete folly? Especially when they might move in 5 years. I think you have a point....Nostalgia, can hold you back, sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QldVilla Posted February 18 VT Supporter Share Posted February 18 19 minutes ago, tomav84 said: yes, we're talking about allegations, no one is saying they're factual. but there's a lot of smoke here (based on several reputable people with connections to the club indicating there's truth to them) that means that it's worth discussing There nothing wrong with discussing them, but some have jumped to believing them without providing any substance other than an anonymous letter. I’d rather judge it when all the information is made available, if it ever comes to light. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 (edited) 28 minutes ago, tomav84 said: the suggestions of us being in an FFP hole I keep having to ask, how would he be responsible for us allegedly being in an " FFP hole "... a 3 year rolling cycle, of which he has not even been here a full year yet, nor would he have been responsible for player trading etc and which would have played a part in this? If anything, he was brought in to try and help us fix those types of issues income wise? Edited February 18 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 38 minutes ago, blandy said: He didn’t. Regardless of Heck or anyone else, those appointments were authorised by the clubs CEO and board. Emery has, as we understand it, no authority to negotiate contracts or appoint staff. He advises who he wants, the club go gets. There’s a potential difficulty when the CEO who does have such authority… The CEO, Heck, will live and die by his decisions and actions. The impression so far is that his people skills are not his strongpoint, to say the least. His communication skills, too, appear to be lacking. His familiarity with English football culture is almost nil, ditto with English employment law. But none of that necessarily means he’s done anything wrong. He hasn’t, though got off to an auspicious start, overall. You do know that HR departments handle the end of peoples employment. Heck is just laying out the restructuring, this isn't a TV show. He'll have got rid of the majority of the people at the top of the Commercial department and justifiably. Then he would need to replace them, often getting people you know who have a proven track record in. It's then down to them to decide on the people in their teams who to keep and who to let go. All of this is completely normal and standard for a private company in a competitive industry which has under performed. He's judged on commercial revenue growth. How some fans feel because he's not been all nice and done things to please them is irrelevant. His job is to grow our commercial income. That is his job. He has landed us a lucrative Adidas sponsorship in his first big commercial deal. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 19 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: I keep having to ask, how would he be responsible for us allegedly being in an " FFP hole "... a 3 year rolling cycle, of which he has not even been here a full year yet, nor would he have been responsible for player trading etc and which would have played a part in this? If anything, he was brought in to try and help us fix those types of issues income wise? To some people Heck is responsible for all bad things that happen though. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 23 minutes ago, CVByrne said: To some people Heck is responsible for all bad things that happen though. It was him who told Emi to come out for that cross yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted February 18 VT Supporter Share Posted February 18 45 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: I keep having to ask, how would he be responsible for us allegedly being in an " FFP hole "... a 3 year rolling cycle, of which he has not even been here a full year yet, nor would he have been responsible for player trading etc and which would have played a part in this? If anything, he was brought in to try and help us fix those types of issues income wise? True but the letter suggested he didn't care about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted February 18 VT Supporter Share Posted February 18 48 minutes ago, QldVilla said: There nothing wrong with discussing them, but some have jumped to believing them without providing any substance other than an anonymous letter. I’d rather judge it when all the information is made available, if it ever comes to light. As I said before, there's been more than one confirmation from reputable people who know current club staff that have confirmed it to be accurate. You may choose not to believe them...that's your prerogative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teale's 'tache Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 6 minutes ago, tomav84 said: As I said before, there's been more than one confirmation from reputable people who know current club staff that have confirmed it to be accurate. You may choose not to believe them...that's your prerogative. Isn't this literally the definition of hearsay? Which is not admissable in court because it isn't reliable. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thabucks Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 Who are these current staff that these supposedly reputable people have spoken to ? Big deal that self publicising Ty Bracey knows some people within the corridors of VP that back up the allegations. Nothing to show the person(s) he’s spoken to are not part of the problem and feel aggrieved. Fact is Heck was in London yesterday which says more than anything IMO. Any credible malpractice allegations he’d be suspended pending formal external investigations. Also not one media outlet has run with it and it’s pretty **** big news. The longer the club stay silent the more obvious to me it’s a load of BS by some disgruntled underperforming staff who rather than formally raise this chose Twitter anonymously to spout what appears to be unsustainable lies to smear Heck & Hatton. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QldVilla Posted February 18 VT Supporter Share Posted February 18 26 minutes ago, tomav84 said: As I said before, there's been more than one confirmation from reputable people who know current club staff that have confirmed it to be accurate. You may choose not to believe them...that's your prerogative. Well I don’t know who these reputable people are? How are they reputable? Hard to believe something when you’re not in the loop of those in the know? More chance of winning lotto than guessing who these people are and whether they are reputable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 (edited) 1 hour ago, tomav84 said: True but the letter suggested he didn't care about it Does the person hired by the owners to be in charge of generating and increasing revenue, " not caring " about revenue and loss, seem realistic or logical to you? Edited February 18 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted February 18 VT Supporter Share Posted February 18 Just now, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: Does the person hired by the owners to be in charge of generating and increasing revenue, not caring about revenue and loss, seem realistic or logical to you? the question isn't about him not caring about revenue or loss. it's a question around not caring about FA regulations. 2 different things. regarding FA regulations, there's legitimate proof to this, evidenced by the fact that the supporters have literally reported villa to the FA for not following due process with regards to the crest. for the record, i'm not blindly believing this letter, i'm not saying the pitchforks need to come out or anything now, but just that the speculation/allegations do not seem to be entirely unfounded and that there should be some form of investigation etc conducted to see if there's any truth to them 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 (edited) 3 hours ago, Captain_Townsend said: I am sure the hypothetical Jill in the accounts department will be relieved to know she is seen in the same light as a £25m player, on £100,000 a week that didn't work out and can be just bombed out. This thread is actually getting quite depressing. Heck could announce we are becoming an NFL franchise tomorrow and some would still defend him. By the same token he could come out and announce a massive shirt sponsorship deal with an elite level organisation who once did a deal with NS or WE and some people would say that Heck deserves minimal credit because it was probably NSWE who made the deal and Heck just needed to sign it. Edited February 18 by allani 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano & Dalian's Umbrella Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 (edited) 1 hour ago, thabucks said: Who are these current staff that these supposedly reputable people have spoken to ? Big deal that self publicising Ty Bracey knows some people within the corridors of VP that back up the allegations. Nothing to show the person(s) he’s spoken to are not part of the problem and feel aggrieved. Fact is Heck was in London yesterday which says more than anything IMO. Any credible malpractice allegations he’d be suspended pending formal external investigations. Also not one media outlet has run with it and it’s pretty **** big news. The longer the club stay silent the more obvious to me it’s a load of BS by some disgruntled underperforming staff who rather than formally raise this chose Twitter anonymously to spout what appears to be unsustainable lies to smear Heck & Hatton. I'm hoping things have changed from when I worked in football nearly 25 years ago now but I'm seriously not exaggerating when I say that to picture how they used to deal with someone raising a concern, you should imagine one of those episodes of the X-files where Scully is threatened, all Mulder's evidence mysteriously goes missing and everything is pinned on him and he is made out to be the bad guy. So I'm not drawing any conclusions based on the silence. Edited February 18 by Deano & Dalian's Umbrella 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 25 minutes ago, tomav84 said: the question isn't about him not caring about revenue or loss. it's a question around not caring about FA regulations. 2 different things. regarding FA regulations, there's legitimate proof to this, evidenced by the fact that the supporters have literally reported villa to the FA for not following due process with regards to the crest. for the record, i'm not blindly believing this letter, i'm not saying the pitchforks need to come out or anything now, but just that the speculation/allegations do not seem to be entirely unfounded and that there should be some form of investigation etc conducted to see if there's any truth to them Actually until the FA find us guilty of not following due process then this isn't evidence / legitimate proof. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 (edited) 10 hours ago, QldVilla said: Well in business you normally assess the strength and weaknesses of your staff and identify who has the skills and who doesn’t. You then bring in those who can deliver the outcomes the business requires. The club needs to be good on and off the pitch, rather than being sentimental. Yeah, but bearing in mind the various issues seen so far, is this guy the right guy? That's the question that needs answering. We'll see. Not a good start. 10 hours ago, QldVilla said: This isn’t the local Council, it’s professional sport. What on earth does this mean? 4 hours ago, thunderball said: Exactly. Judge Heck on his economic performance. I'll judge him on everything at Villa off the pitch, because he's the CEO. It's been an absolute shit show this season IMO. Communication with fans being non-existent/dishonest is not the way to work. Whacking up ticket prices 50-150% isn't some genius move only a clever-clogs business man thinks of. If other areas of the club don't improve I'm sure we can find someone in the world who could sign off on that, and not **** up a badge consultation and upset various fan groups. Unai doing an incredible job doesn't let others off. Edited February 18 by Tomaszk 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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