wishywashy Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 (edited) 8 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: Some of the " detail " seems like opinion from this person, unless he is an executive with insight into these things lol. Example, I don't get how adding a 10 million bonus for selling more shirts, based on projected increase on sales is " butchering the deal " unless we were offered more up front, and decided to take that option instead, which wouldn't make any sense? And what if Karen Brady didn't like him? Would he be wrong to say that? On Castore, are people fans of Castore now? Didn't everyone want us out of the deal, and expect that we would most likely have to pay our way out? Shouldn't he be right in trying to see if there was a way we could get out of the deal for free? I'm confused as to how these are "smoking guns " Some of these things don't even make sense. There's a bit on FFP? What's that got to do with him whatsoever? I think there's merit to the letter (and people like Bardell who are known to have close ties to the club one way or another have agreed with its contents). This is just some clout seeking account. Edited February 16 by wishywashy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 1 minute ago, wishywashy said: Some of these things don't even make sense. There's a bit on FFP? What's that got to do with him whatsoever? I think there's merit to the letter (and people like Bardell who are known to have close ties to the club one way or another have agreed with its contents). This is just some clout seeking account. Yeah i saw that as well, reference to " being in a 50 million FFP hole hence rumours of Ramsey sale in summer ", which make absolutely no sense. How would he have anything to do with that, whilst not even bring here a full year yet. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 1 hour ago, DakotaVilla said: I’m not emotive. I have information that you don’t. I understand your non-informed stance. In that case, I bow to your better information. I simply don't know, enough about this. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wishywashy Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 (edited) 2 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: Yeah i saw that as well, reference to " being in a 50 million FFP hole hence rumours of Ramsey sale in summer ", which make absolutely no sense. How would he have anything to do with that, whilst not even bring here a full year yet. I don't think this account has realised that the footballing and business departments split under different 'Presidents' in the summer. Doesn't bode very well for its legitimacy. Edited February 16 by wishywashy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 2 minutes ago, wishywashy said: I don't think this account has realised that the footballing and business departments split under different 'Presidents' in the summer. Doesn't bode very well for its legitimacy. Is that the account that tweeted today? That one doesn't come across as legitimate at all, sounds like they're just trying to jump on it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DakotaVilla Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 On 28/12/2023 at 23:00, DakotaVilla said: Just bumping this up. When do you think he will get sacked? I’ll go for summer 2025. God knows how much damage he will have done to the clubs relationship with the fans by then. Earlier than I thought but my earlier comment in the thread did say that he would limp on until the summer of this season. I had obviously heard the noise about heck at this point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 16 VT Supporter Share Posted February 16 1 hour ago, CVByrne said: Thanks for those who pointed me to the letter. I feel it's mostly disgruntled employee's who dislike the changes taking place at the club. Page one is talking about people being let go or "fired on the spot" or whatever. I personally wouldn't believe that people are being denied their legal pay and redundancy if they are let go. I do however expect and am glad to see people being moved on from the Club as we have not performed in commerical areas off the pitch so existing people to be let go and new people brought in. This is what I expected from Hecks appointment, under performance isn't tolerated, get in good people to take us forward. We don't tolerate under performance on the pitch or in the dugout. If the concerns we legitimate they would be taken down a legal route. As it's a letter to the FAB I would say it's people unhappy by the changes happening at the club. So you believe the good bits and don’t believe the bad bits. What a surprise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talldarkandransome Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 Just so I know.... No-one has a clue what's going on 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 2 hours ago, Deano & Dalian's Umbrella said: After I wrote my post I actually thought of you specifically and thought here is an example of someone who is a nice guy like most people on this forum but isn't siding with the workers and was going to edit my post to add that I wasn't necessarily saying that people who were siding with the management weren't nice people but then my phone went and I forgot. I have come across, some pretty shitty management.....and some pretty shitty workers, in my time. I am not sitting on the fence, because I am dithering....I am a person, who feels confident in making a decision, I did it in my work. However, to make decisions, or take sides, without the relevant information, is reckless imo. I am never comfortable with anyone, having false accusations, aimed at them, and until we know for sure......I am on that fence. I don't feel obliged, to take sides, with what little proof, I have, if the letter is bonafide. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 (edited) 27 minutes ago, MikeMcKenna said: Deja Vu? When Chris Heck was at Red Bulls he had a similar reception and was gone after about a year. I don’t care what he did at Philadelphia, he has form in pissing off fans and I think he is bad for Villa: https://www.onceametro.com/2012/3/19/2848227/chris-heck-onomics Chris Heck-onomics By Matt Coyne Mar 19, 2012, 3:00pm EDT Generally, in business you don't want to alienate a large swath of your customers -- especially the most loyal ones -- right off the bat. And you certainly you don't want to do it so you end up the face of that alienation. In the case of President of Business Operations Chris Heck, he ended up doing just that after Heck raised season ticket prices across Red Bull arena everywhere but in the South Ward, while dividing up many of the sections, leaving a rather convoluted seating chart for 2012. Suffice it to say Heck and Red Bulls fans didn't quite start off on the right foot. The most earnest Heck haters will tell you what he's doing is absolutely economically illiterate. When you average roughly 20,000 in a stadium that seats more than 25,000 why would you, potentially, price out fans? The supply clearly outweighs the demand. That means prices should drop, not go up. Economics 101. What's worse is the customer service aspect of it, they'll tell you. For a long suffering fan base of a team low on the New York sports totem pole, why would you seemingly go out of your way to raise ticket prices on the guys who are willing to buy said tickets? You know, the guys who are there because they want to be there? Bring him up in certain sub-circles of Red Bulls fans and he's practically persona non grata. Some fans boycotted season tickets, opting for partial season plans or single game tickets. "Heck no" has become something of a rallying cry among these fans. To his credit, Heck has gone on a bit of a PR tour, knowing full well the fans' opinion of him. In December he talked to Goal.com. He had January and February mailbags where he fielded questions -- even letting some negative ones slip through -- from fans and in January he appeared on the Seeing Red! podcast. During his February mailbag he had one answer in particular that stood out. Q: Several times this year there have been games that were announced as being "sold out". Yet due to the large number of no shows the stadium looks substantially less than full. This seems to be a constant thread when it comes to the sideline seats that get the most time on the TV cameras. Has there ever been any thought given about filling those seats? Perhaps moving the supporters sections to those seats, similar to what DC United has done may be the answer. Ed Kanitra – Hightstown A: I agree that that the no-show rate was a big challenge for us last season and we have been working on finding a solution. In the meantime, there are a couple of variables to consider that will have a direct impact in this area: a) many of the seats you point out are owned by new season ticket holders, b) with the higher value of the ticket, we expect a better attendance rate and c) a large amount of those seats were sold to ticket brokers in the past, which is not the case in 2012. If he raises ticket prices massively for next season (after we've had 2 years of huge rises already) then i think he's going to be in for a shock when our waiting list disappears and not all individual tickets get sold. I love going to watch Villa, and go on a match by match basis, but the cost of the ticket now is right at the top end of what i'm willing to pay - £63 for Spurs! And that's in a shit stand with no facilities where i can't even buy a drink and pie. Edited February 16 by ender4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferguson1 Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 Regardless of what’s truth or lie or something in between, it feels like it’s turning out to be a really bad appointment. The silence from the club speaks volumes as well. Why not send out a communication strenuously denying the rumours? Put the matter to bed! No smoke and all that…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 (edited) 4 minutes ago, TRO said: I have come across, some pretty shitty management.....and some pretty shitty workers, in my time. I am not sitting on the fence, because I am dithering....I am a person, who feels confident in making a decision, I did it in my work. However, to make decisions, or take sides, without the relevant information, is reckless imo. I am never comfortable with anyone, having false accusations, aimed at them, and until we know for sure......I am on that fence. I don't feel obliged, to take sides, with what little proof, I have, if the letter is bonafide. And it's a fair viewpoint to take. I personally think there's too much smoke to be no fire, but there's still no proof. People posting in here saying 'trust me' etc - I completely get why people don't want to trust people on a forum who they've likely never met. Shouldn't have a strong opinion without the full facts of what's gone on, and at the moment there aren't any/are very few. If there are well connected people on here who know more than the average person - fair play, but most of us are still a little in the dark, although expect that could change soon. Edited February 16 by Tom13 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 (edited) 29 minutes ago, MikeMcKenna said: Deja Vu? When Chris Heck was at Red Bulls he had a similar reception and was gone after about a year. I don’t care what he did at Philadelphia, he has form in pissing off fans and I think he is bad for Villa: https://www.onceametro.com/2012/3/19/2848227/chris-heck-onomics Chris Heck-onomics By Matt Coyne Mar 19, 2012, 3:00pm EDT Generally, in business you don't want to alienate a large swath of your customers -- especially the most loyal ones -- right off the bat. And you certainly you don't want to do it so you end up the face of that alienation. In the case of President of Business Operations Chris Heck, he ended up doing just that after Heck raised season ticket prices across Red Bull arena everywhere but in the South Ward, while dividing up many of the sections, leaving a rather convoluted seating chart for 2012. Suffice it to say Heck and Red Bulls fans didn't quite start off on the right foot. The most earnest Heck haters will tell you what he's doing is absolutely economically illiterate. When you average roughly 20,000 in a stadium that seats more than 25,000 why would you, potentially, price out fans? The supply clearly outweighs the demand. That means prices should drop, not go up. Economics 101. What's worse is the customer service aspect of it, they'll tell you. For a long suffering fan base of a team low on the New York sports totem pole, why would you seemingly go out of your way to raise ticket prices on the guys who are willing to buy said tickets? You know, the guys who are there because they want to be there? Bring him up in certain sub-circles of Red Bulls fans and he's practically persona non grata. Some fans boycotted season tickets, opting for partial season plans or single game tickets. "Heck no" has become something of a rallying cry among these fans. To his credit, Heck has gone on a bit of a PR tour, knowing full well the fans' opinion of him. In December he talked to Goal.com. He had January and February mailbags where he fielded questions -- even letting some negative ones slip through -- from fans and in January he appeared on the Seeing Red! podcast. During his February mailbag he had one answer in particular that stood out. Q: Several times this year there have been games that were announced as being "sold out". Yet due to the large number of no shows the stadium looks substantially less than full. This seems to be a constant thread when it comes to the sideline seats that get the most time on the TV cameras. Has there ever been any thought given about filling those seats? Perhaps moving the supporters sections to those seats, similar to what DC United has done may be the answer. Ed Kanitra – Hightstown A: I agree that that the no-show rate was a big challenge for us last season and we have been working on finding a solution. In the meantime, there are a couple of variables to consider that will have a direct impact in this area: a) many of the seats you point out are owned by new season ticket holders, b) with the higher value of the ticket, we expect a better attendance rate and c) a large amount of those seats were sold to ticket brokers in the past, which is not the case in 2012. Emphasis (in the answer) mine. It's true that no-shows were a big deal last season. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to look around Red Bull Arena during any of the declared sell outs and see that the stadium still had more than a few empty seats. But Heck seems like he's got something up his sleeves here. Making the ticket something of value and forcing people who buy not to skip out by, essentially, forcing them to throw good money away is one of those sounds-so-crazy-it-just-might-work scenarios, like something out of Freakonomics. It's as if we're all part of some kind of behavioral economics case study. Will people value a product differently based on how it's priced? Funny story, there's research to suggest it can (surely there's more, but my time reading economics papers is mostly over). Anyway, even if Heck isn't reading scholarly journals in his spare time and feels the team is giving away tickets below value, at least he's considering the supporters groups feedback on how the South Ward is run. So things could be worse. Part of me wonders if his success/failure in previous roles aligns with the current fortunes of the clubs he's at. He came to us when we were on a high and doing well. So any change is gong to be seen as a bad thing because why fix what seemingly isn't broken. The fact we were useless at commercial deals didn't really bother the average fan, but the new North Stand and the Badge clearly do. You look at his revision at Philadelphia, which is seen as good, that was to a team that were very much in a sustained period of nothingness. Change is going to not only be accepted, but welcomed in such a place. If Heck had come to us post Xia, and ripped up the place, we'd all be saying "this needed to happen, we've been rotten to the core for a long time". Who's to say that some of that core still remained today, and needed ejecting? I'm not a fan of his, but still waiting for something more concrete. Edited February 16 by MrBlack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talldarkandransome Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 2 hours ago, Deano & Dalian's Umbrella said: After I wrote my post I actually thought of you specifically and thought here is an example of someone who is a nice guy like most people on this forum but isn't siding with the workers and was going to edit my post to add that I wasn't necessarily saying that people who were siding with the management weren't nice people but then my phone went and I forgot. Are you suggesting @TRO is a nice guy, he only likes tall people 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 52 minutes ago, PieFacE said: For those that hadn't noticed. There's more detail in the thread of this tweet from the original poster. I didn't know it was there until I clicked on it. Thanks, i hadn't noticed that. This one was interesting: Quote Went to Castore to try to rip up the deal, realised he couldn't, and we've had to pay 4.75m to get out of the deal. would refer to Castore are "these really bad people" to Villa staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 40 minutes ago, Captain_Townsend said: I cannot find the post but someone pointed to politics/identification as being a clue as to how a poster might react to the letter. I think it is more simple than that and comes down to forum dynamics. I am very much a glass half full person when it comes to Emery, the squad and the rest of this season yet I have been critical of Heck. I find it interesting that one or two who have been defending Heck over the past few months have been quite negative about the football and our prospects for the rest of the season so the issue actually cuts across one's personality/politics etc and seems to be more of a spin out of the dynamic within the threads themselves! I believe you're referring to my post, which wasn't meant to be considered with any degree of seriousness 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Townsend Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 Just now, maqroll said: I believe you're referring to my post, which wasn't meant to be considered with any degree of seriousness No problem, I found it interesting as I noticed one or two who have given up on season 23/24 recently have been on the other side of this argument! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 8 hours ago, villa89 said: There won't be anything more substantive than the information we have already, and we don't need anything more than that. If anyone chooses to believe this is some made up story or one person with an axe to grind then they are just fooling themselves. It's clear and obvious Heck has been a disastrous appointment. So if I choose to believe the thing that's not what you choose to believe (which is obvious), I'm fooling myself. Okay. Well that's good because I don't believe either of these things because there's no evidence for them. It's literally some photo of a printed letter. Heck himself could have typed it out for shits and giggles for all I know. If I've learned anything from my time on the internet, it's to not believe anything I read another person say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Made In Aston Posted February 16 Popular Post Share Posted February 16 No matter what happens with heck, we can't deny his tenure has been bad so far. He has alienated the fan base with a corporate money grab strategy and lack of consultation. Backtracked on north stand and badge, before later seeking to implement something worse that looks to have been done as an afterthought in 5 minutes (again without fan consultation). Now we are hearing about rumours of him mistreating staff and creating a toxic environment. It doesn't paint a great picture, even if some of the rumours are not true. There only good thing he has done is the Adidas deal, but I don't think that was a difficult negotiation, given our owner's ties with the company, upwards trajectory on the pitch and recent popularity in the media. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 13 minutes ago, Made In Aston said: There only good thing he has done is the Adidas deal, but I don't think that was a difficult negotiation, given our owner's ties with the company, upwards trajectory on the pitch and recent popularity in the media. Yes it's tricky to assess that deal - partly because we don't know the detail and partly because we don't know if the deal he got was just what any CCO would have got for Villa at this point or whether he actually did get us a deal far above what we would have got with say Purslow or some other CCO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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