Jhon Durán

[VillaChris]

12 hours ago, Kiwivillan said:

It actually is. Heard podcast the other day referencing West Ham spending 2 fortunes on 2 flops last few years. See Manure unable to buy scoring striker last few years. Nunez is a flop for the money. Arsenal don't have volume goal contributions striker anywhere near Watkins. Could go on but there's non Villa podcasts that reference this and the fact Premier League has moved away from striker centric teams

Just get a decent european striker in on loan who's maybe in and out of a CL/europa league team. We're managed by a world class manager and one point off the top of arguably the best league in world football so people can't really make the point that anyone decent won't want to join us like in previous seasons.

[VillaChris]

2 hours ago, Villaphan04 said:

I'd be pretty surprised if we signed another striker in Jan and how many PL teams have backup strikers who are better than Duran? Not many I'd say

Bournemouth had Justin Kluivert on the bench today, he's better than Duran.

Beto scored a couple for Everton recently and previously hit double figures in Serie A.

Richarlison not been great for Spurs at all but he's on a nice scoring run currently, dosen't make their team when Maddison is fit again.

West Ham had Ings on the bench. Turned out a waste of money for them but ultimately his goals to game ratio was good last season but made sense to cash in to claw back some FFP.

Newcastle don't start Wilson and Isak that often so one of them is usually on the bench.
 

Welbeck is a decent enough sub striker for Brighton, great header the other night.

Kaladzjic has scored a couple for Wolves off the bench, would've started way more for them but for the ACL on his debut.

So yes there are plenty of backup strikers in the league better than Jhon Duran. 

Duran has potential but this debate feels exactly the same as when everyone was bigging up Kienan Davis and why bother signing anyone better to put some pressure on  Ollie or at least give us a decent option off the bench in games we aren't winning.

Edited December 23, 2023 by VillaChris

[Kiwivillan]

26 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

Just get a decent european striker in on loan who's maybe in and out of a CL/europa league team. We're managed by a world class manager and one point off the top of arguably the best league in world football so people can't really make the point that anyone decent won't want to join us like in previous seasons.

Why don't other teams do that. The scoring rates of "strikers" in the PL is garbage. Majority of leading scorers are not "strikers"

[HKP90]

19 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

Bournemouth had Justin Kluivert on the bench today, he's better than Duran.

Beto scored a couple for Everton recently and previously hit double figures in Serie A.

Richarlison not been great for Spurs at all but he's on a nice scoring run currently, dosen't make their team when Maddison is fit again.

West Ham had Ings on the bench. Turned out a waste of money for them but ultimately his goals to game ratio was good last season but made sense to cash in to claw back some FFP.

Newcastle don't start Wilson and Isak that often so one of them is usually on the bench.
 

Welbeck is a decent enough sub striker for Brighton, great header the other night.

Kaladzjic has scored a couple for Wolves off the bench, would've started way more for them but for the ACL on his debut.

So yes there are plenty of backup strikers in the league better than Jhon Duran. 

Duran has potential but this debate feels exactly the same as when everyone was bigging up Kienan Davis and why bother signing anyone better to put some pressure on  Ollie or at least give us a decent option off the bench in games we aren't winning.

I think one of the main reasons we are all a bit reticent to get a second striker who can compete with Ollie, is that when we did that last time with Ings, Ollie's form dropped off a cliff. 

Tricky really, as it's prudent to have at least two decent options per position, but Ollie needs to know that he's the main man.

[VillaChris]

5 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said:

Why don't other teams do that. The scoring rates of "strikers" in the PL is garbage. Majority of leading scorers are not "strikers"

I'm not demanding anyone to replace Ollie, just a striker who can come on in a game we're struggling a bit with 15-20 minutes (we will probably have more games like last night at VP from now on) and have an effective cameo.

Duran's one v Palace was great but ultimately it's the only prem game he's made an impact like that in nearly a year he's been here.

It would be good to get a forward in who can do that 4-5 times in the run in.

Best example would be the impact Traore made at Leicester and v Forest which won us crucial points in the run in last season.

[VillaChris]

1 minute ago, HKP90 said:

I think one of the main reasons we are all a bit reticent to get a second striker who can compete with Ollie, is that when we did that last time with Ings, Ollie's form dropped off a cliff. 

Tricky really, as it's prudent to have at least two decent options per position, but Ollie needs to know that he's the main man.

Think it was just who was managing them.

Ollie usually tends to start seasons slowly and then gets going from October.

Ings scoring those two goals at Brighton when Ollie was ill was crucial early result in Emery's tenure here. If Ollie picked up a bug and didn't make Man. United then I don't actually think Duran would start, think Zaniolo would be tried out at CF instead.

 

[Kiwivillan]

19 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

Duran's one v Palace was great but ultimately it's the only prem game he's made an impact like that in nearly a year he's been here.

Well seeing as Duran looks like a card magnet every time he comes on I'm losing patience with him as an option for sure

[Talldarkandransome]

43 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said:

Well seeing as Duran looks like a card magnet every time he comes on I'm losing patience with him as an option for sure

Can't argue with that, he's obviously talented but he does look like he'll get sent off every game.. he was lucky on Friday not to get sent off but the ref and VAR didn't have a clue

[Adam2003]

2 hours ago, VillaChris said:

Best example would be the impact Traore made at Leicester and v Forest which won us crucial points in the run in last season

Agree, we will be sorted when Traore is fit!

[burchy]

Needs to go on loan and a more reliable replacement brought in IMHO.

He’s a bit of a card magnet when he comes on, needs to curb that a bit. I get having aggression (Benteke) but it needs to be channeled in the right way. 

[Adman]

10 hours ago, Adam2003 said:

Very like Douglas Luiz a few years back. Came up knowing how to scrap and needs to temper it in the senior game. He’ll learn 

Not sure I see the luiz comparison tbh

[villa4europe]

44 minutes ago, burchy said:

Needs to go on loan and a more reliable replacement brought in IMHO.

He’s a bit of a card magnet when he comes on, needs to curb that a bit. I get having aggression (Benteke) but it needs to be channeled in the right way. 

Which is why I don't think he should be sent out on loan... 

He's better under the dons watchful eye

And I still it's potentially a lot to send a 20 year old Colombian kid to say Preston for a year, we've got to look after him 

[Tom13]

Can anyone translate what his Instagram story says today?

[Risso]

He's got to learn to play regularly, and he's never going to get that at Villa at the moment. He's a liability rather than an asset when he comes on, and he needs a big amount of game time to knock off his many rough edges. I can't remember many youngsters who ultimately make it by only playing 5 minutes here and there.

[david-avfc]

12 hours ago, VillaChris said:

Bournemouth had Justin Kluivert on the bench today, he's better than Duran.

Beto scored a couple for Everton recently and previously hit double figures in Serie A.

Richarlison not been great for Spurs at all but he's on a nice scoring run currently, dosen't make their team when Maddison is fit again.

West Ham had Ings on the bench. Turned out a waste of money for them but ultimately his goals to game ratio was good last season but made sense to cash in to claw back some FFP.

Newcastle don't start Wilson and Isak that often so one of them is usually on the bench.
 

Welbeck is a decent enough sub striker for Brighton, great header the other night.

Kaladzjic has scored a couple for Wolves off the bench, would've started way more for them but for the ACL on his debut.

So yes there are plenty of backup strikers in the league better than Jhon Duran. 

Duran has potential but this debate feels exactly the same as when everyone was bigging up Kienan Davis and why bother signing anyone better to put some pressure on  Ollie or at least give us a decent option off the bench in games we aren't winning.

Just throwing a load of names about there, without proving anything. I mean Wellbeck? You must be having a laugh, he’s 33 and his best goal return in any of the last 10 seasons is 6 goals.

The others aren’t exactly convincing either, apart from Isak/Wilson (who pretty much play equally) and Richarlison (who cost £60m) none of the others have scored more PL goals than Duran this season anyway. 

If anything your post has only confirmed to me that if that’s the apparent “good backups” in the league then Duran is perfectly fine.

[VillaChris]

1 hour ago, villa4europe said:

Which is why I don't think he should be sent out on loan... 

He's better under the dons watchful eye

And I still it's potentially a lot to send a 20 year old Colombian kid to say Preston for a year, we've got to look after him 

Was thinking more of Granada and Almeria.

Lower end Spanish clubs who'll probably get relegated but he'd have half a season playing regularly in a culture he's more used to (even if we have plenty of Spanish speakers in the dressing room these days) and he'll face some good opponents.

No point doing that if we don't get anyone in though otherwise it feels too light again in final third.

Probably wouldn't happen until late January anyway as you can see him starting the Boro cup game so up to him to make an impact in that one.

[sne]

How about Vitoria?  5th in the Portuguese league, their top scoring attacker has 5 in 14 and their 2 attackers behind him has combined for 1 goal in the league. Most of their goals seem to come from midfielders and wide players in their 4-3-3.

[Spoony]

15 hours ago, Adam2003 said:

Bookmarked, see you in 100 pages

I hope so

[tinker]

3 hours ago, Risso said:

He's got to learn to play regularly, and he's never going to get that at Villa at the moment. He's a liability rather than an asset when he comes on, and he needs a big amount of game time to knock off his many rough edges. I can't remember many youngsters who ultimately make it by only playing 5 minutes here and there.

This, needs to play games week in week out. FWIW I think he will be a major player, just needs one season playing and he will be a top top player, he has everything he needs to be apart from game time.

[Villaphan04]

15 hours ago, VillaChris said:

Bournemouth had Justin Kluivert on the bench today, he's better than Duran.

Beto scored a couple for Everton recently and previously hit double figures in Serie A.

Richarlison not been great for Spurs at all but he's on a nice scoring run currently, dosen't make their team when Maddison is fit again.

West Ham had Ings on the bench. Turned out a waste of money for them but ultimately his goals to game ratio was good last season but made sense to cash in to claw back some FFP.

Newcastle don't start Wilson and Isak that often so one of them is usually on the bench.
 

Welbeck is a decent enough sub striker for Brighton, great header the other night.

Kaladzjic has scored a couple for Wolves off the bench, would've started way more for them but for the ACL on his debut.

So yes there are plenty of backup strikers in the league better than Jhon Duran. 

Duran has potential but this debate feels exactly the same as when everyone was bigging up Kienan Davis and why bother signing anyone better to put some pressure on  Ollie or at least give us a decent option off the bench in games we aren't winning.

Kuivert isn't really an out and out striker though, he's more similar to Zaniolo. Beto has almost 4x the minutes Duran has and still less goals (I know Serie A / background but someone like Scamacca still only managed 3 PL goals). Richarlison, yeah I'd expect that since he cost 60m and is Spurs best out and out striker.  

I think the issue is we aren't going to get a good "back-up" striker while Watkins is always going to be 1st choice. And TBH I'd take Durán over all of those who you mentioned except Richarlison (Not including Isak as he would start over Wilson, but Wilson would be too expensive to be on our bench)

Edited December 24, 2023 by Villaphan04