Unai Emery

[DJBOB]

And to the point - you think Arteta, Klopp, or Pep will ever play a 532 no matter who’s missing? Klopp played two academy players in crucial spots in a title challenger so I don’t buy this nonsense there were SO injured we have to play like Sheffield. 
 
Unai got it wrong. I believe in him to turn it around but it was colossally wrong. 

[markavfc40]

I think it is easy in hindsight to say he got it wrong today but being honest I felt when I heard the line up before the game that it was a little negative. I think for the first half though Emery was arguably proved right. Whilst they had more possession they created next to nothing whilst we had 3 or 4 promising openngs. The general feeling in the ground at half time seemed to be so far so good and that we'd done okay.

Clearly the second half didn't plan out as Emery would have hoped. I'd imagine the plan was to keep it tight until around the hour plus mark then make 3 or 4 positive changes and utilise Diaby, Moreno, Zaniolo, Rogers (and possibly even Duran) and go for the win. 2 quick goals, from our own mistakes rather than due to the system and McGinn, who otherwise had a good game, losing his head for a split second, put paid to all that though.

We can debate why we didn't take the game to Spurs from the off but I'd imagine the game in Europe less than 3 days earlier plays a part and it would have always been in his mind to utilise all his subs to offset that in terms of freshness of legs.

Goals change games don't they though and two quick ones and the sending off soon after killed today's game for us. Regardless of formation you make errors like we did, both in terms of the goals and the sending off, then you'll lose. I'd imagine up until the point of them scoring the game was playing out pretty much how Emery would have hoped. 

On reflection I'm therefore not putting too much on him for today.

Edited March 10 by markavfc40

[DJBOB]

2 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

I think it is easy in hindsight to say he got it wrong today but being honest I felt when I heard the line up before the game that it was a little negative. I think for the first half though Emery was arguably proved right. Whilst they had more possession they created next to nothing whilst we had 3 or 4 promising openngs. The general feeling in the ground at half time seemed to be so far so good and that we'd done okay.

Clearly the second half didn't plan out as Emery would have hoped. I'd imagine the plan was to keep it tight until around the hour plus mark then make 3 or 4 positive changes and utilise Diaby, Moreno, Zaniolo, Rogers (and possibly even Duran) and go for the win. 2 quick goals, from our own mistakes rather than due to the system and McGinn, who otherwise had a good games, losing his head for a split second, put paid to all that though.

We can debate why we didn't take the game to Spurs from the off but I'd imagine the game in Europe less than 3 days earlier plays a part and it would have always been in his mind to utilise all his subs to offset that in terms of freshness of legs.

Goals change games don't they though and two quick ones and the sending off soon after killed today's game for us. Regardless of formation you make errors like we did, both in terms of the goals and the sending off, then you'll lose. I'd imagine up until the point of them scoring the game was playing out pretty much how Emery would have hoped. 

On reflection I'm therefore not putting too much on him for today.

Sorry Mark, I just don’t buy this fatigue question and Unai himself dismissed it. 
 
We played a dreary Bournemouth draw 3 days before City and then came at them and played them off the park. 
 
The strategy was to let them come to us so it was no surprise that when we had the ball, we had no clue what to do with it. 

[ozvillafan]

Unai got this tactically wrong.

Playing 5 at the back when all season we have played a high line boggles the mind. You now have 1 more opportunity for spurs to beat that offside trap with 1 player in the defensive line not stepping out/keeping the line.

Doing so at home gave spuds exactly what they wanted: Our extra man was in the defensive line so they could press as they always do knowing there was 1 less attacker for the counter/long ball. Ange is not a tactical genius and his sides always play the same way.

That meant we effectively had Digne and Cash sitting deep, and no easy way to play out.

You can argue that it was working in the first half - but I would argue that a scoreless draw was the best result those tactics could produce. Zero attempts on target in the first 45 speaks to that.

[DJBOB]

One of the reasons I’ve backed Unai (in addition to his stellar record) is his belief in this system, style of play, and his combination of pragmatism. 
 
The high lines, playing it out of the back, somewhat risky passes across the middle, the little islands he would put these players on to stretch the pitch. Even when they weren’t at their best, the ideas were always there to see. 
 
It was all part of an identity that saw us control matches instead of reacting to the opponent. 
 
So, for me, this is the worse I’ve felt under Unai as it was a capitulation to all the ideas he’s built during his time here. To revert to this defensive 532 low block must be some sort of Villa manager curse. 
 
I’m just hoping it was a one off and not a regression in an effort to be more “pragmatic.”

Edited March 10 by DJBOB

[Risso]

21 minutes ago, ozvillafan said:

Unai got this tactically wrong.

Playing 5 at the back when all season we have played a high line boggles the mind. You now have 1 more opportunity for spurs to beat that offside trap with 1 player in the defensive line not stepping out/keeping the line.

Doing so at home gave spuds exactly what they wanted: Our extra man was in the defensive line so they could press as they always do knowing there was 1 less attacker for the counter/long ball. Ange is not a tactical genius and his sides always play the same way.

That meant we effectively had Digne and Cash sitting deep, and no easy way to play out.

You can argue that it was working in the first half - but I would argue that a scoreless draw was the best result those tactics could produce. Zero attempts on target in the first 45 speaks to that.

Yep, he shit the bed totally today.

[ozvilla28]

Come on credit we're credit is due he got taken to the cleaners by Ange fullstop. Yeah that system worked ok first half,  but why on earth be conservative and not play our natural game and put then on the backfoot straight away. They aren't city or arsenal we did to them right from the whistle payed spursto much respect. On top of that at home to.

What's going on with these sloppy goals conceded hasn't been rectified the first 2 we're a shambles this will come back and haunt us.

Edited March 10 by ozvilla28

[useless]

Can guarantee if we were playing Man City, LIverpool, or Arsenal next with the same players available, Emery would start exactly the same team, without the defensive contributions of Ramsey and particularly Kamara he doesn't have much choice, not against the better teams in the league anyway. The only real other option would be to sacrifice one of the defenders, say Cash, and start Iro in midfield for extra defensive steel.

If Ramsey had have been available today, we would have started something more like our usual formation, has he does a good job defensively, and good job up and down that left hand side in general, Diaby or Zaniola can't do that job, so we didn't really have any other choice but to use Cash

We were never going to play with a midfield three of Luiz, Tielemans, and McGinn, and three attackers like Diaby, Bailey, and Watkins, no other manager in the league would line up like that against Spurs, I doubt many managers would line up like that against any team never mind a strong top four challenger.

Also even if Emery did get it wrong today, what of it, it's not Roy of Rovers, some games he won't get it right like any other manager in the league, we're fourth in the form guide across fifty plus league games since he was appointed, that's remarkable not just because how poorly we were doing when he was appointed, but would have been remarkable even if we had have been doing better

To get us into seventh and Europe last season after start we had was a brilliant achievement, and to have us in with a chance of winning a European competition and qualifying for Champions League is remarkable, if we achieve both it will arguably be our best season since we won the European Cup

[Dante_Lockhart]

11 hours ago, Risso said:

Yep, he shit the bed totally today.

Agreed. I love Unai but he's not immune to critisism. He will make mistakes, he is human afterall. I think he's his own worst critic too so I expect he's been stewing over it since and will make improvements next time.

 

[gilbertoAVFC]

Think possibly got it wrong yesterday but I saw the logic of keeping it tight for 60 and going for it in last 30 with Diaby for Lenglet/Cash. I think that was the plan.

Problem obviously was conceding in that period before that theoretical sub.

Emery perhaps over-thought this one in terms of game(s) management and ended up paying, but again I (think) I saw what he was trying to do.

Either way, under Smith/Gerrard we almost always played one-way. It's not a terrible thing to bring in an element of tactical pragmatism/flexibility in the interests of perhaps keeping players fresher for certain phrases of games/the schedule as a whole.

Some managers would've canned either Ajax or Spurs in favour of one or the other. At least we are giving both our absolute best even with so many injuries.

Edited March 11 by gilbertoAVFC

[Zatman]

My issue is recently and not sure on Unai or somebody else but the players seem to lack concentration after half time and its becoming too frequent

Spurs, Forest and Luton got great joy after half time

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

The inevitable " we saw from his time at Arsenal " Bollox has started doing the rounds.

[S-Platt]

1 minute ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

The inevitable " we saw from his time at Arsenal " Bollox has started doing the rounds.

Idiots will be idiots.  Anyone with sense will see Unai has done an amazing job since day one.

We are still a work in progress and we will have ups and downs.

[avfc1982am]

Yesterday was an absolute mare all round but anyone questioning the manager needs to give their head a serious wobble. 

[imavillan]

18 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

The inevitable " we saw from his time at Arsenal " Bollox has started doing the rounds.

i assume you mean this.... 

 

 

[Risso]

12 hours ago, S-Platt said:

Idiots will be idiots.  Anyone with sense will see Unai has done an amazing job since day one.

We are still a work in progress and we will have ups and downs.

 

Sunday was a major down though. It was a gutless display from the manager and all the players. I'm still hugely pissed off with it. The set up, the actual game, Konsa, McGinn, and wiping out our goal difference advantage, listening to Emery chuntering on about "teams who are more contenders to be in the top 7 than us". All of it. It had a very strong feel of the O'Neill years about it. Spurs will definitely overtake us now, and I'm pretty certain Man U will too. Sunday was our 'Stoke' moment. Bottled it, completely.

Edited March 12 by Risso

[Vive_La_Villa]

14 hours ago, imavillan said:

i assume you mean this.... 

 

 

This is bullshit. He made the change due to injury’s and fatigue. Simple as.   
 

We just haven’t got the squad to compete for top 4 and a European run. Now with McGinn out I worry for the next 3. Hopefully we can just end the season really strong once he is back.

Edited March 12 by Vive_La_Villa

[NeilS]

12 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Saw this as well, aside from this there are a couple of " fans " who pipe up with it every time we lose or have a bad patch.

One bloke said " Yes... The pattern does seem to be emerging now ".

I had to tell him that the " pattern " is that we were 16th when he came.in, 7th last year and are now competing for top 4.

I really hope we don't become Arsenal TV types with more success

Before the season began, I was hoping for a top 6 position in the PL and a good run deep into, (possibly winning) the Europa Conference League. We are currently on course for my pre-season expectation, all while suffering three season ending injuries to key player, along with multiple other injuries throughout the season, which have really started to hamper us since Christmas time.

The Spurs match was disappointing, but Spurs have the advantage on us at the moment due to having most of their squad bar Richarlison and Sessegnon fit and ready to play. I am pretty sure the most matches played by one of their players is Vicario the GK who has played roughly 30 matches all season, whereas I reckon McGinn, Douglas Luiz and Ollie Watkins must be nearing their 40th match of the season already add that to the team only returning late at night on Thursday and playing at lunch time on the Sunday. It was going to need a monumental effort to keep up with a hard pressing Spurs team.

Let's not chase Unai off if we fall short this season, he deserves more time to build the squad which will allow us to compete on multiple fronts. Let's not forget that it was roughly only 18 months ago we were managed by a Scouse charlatan who was taking us back to the Championship. Stick with the team, they will need us to stay with them when the times are tough and they have given their all this season so far.

[DJBOB]

1 hour ago, Teale's 'tache said:

.

On the other hand, we were decimated by injuries, tired and we seemed to be more concerned with not losing, a draw would have been fine for us, I don't think it was the intention of Unai for us to have that mentality, but that's how it seemed to play out in the end, confused minds can create confusing performances.

 

 

There's a lot in that and I know Unai asked for a lot but as soon as we set out the way we did, I knew it was rather inevitable what would happen. It seeps into the players mentality to just "hang on" and try to get a point.

For me - I'd have rather got smashed playing the way we know we play rather than get smashed playing something even the players didn't fully believe in.

I get that they're tired and fatigued but the last thing I would want to do if I was exhausted is somehow play a completely different system and style (cautious, defensive) instead of the one I've played all year.

So for as fatigued as we are, Unai didn't help the players out with his choices.

And I can only hope that it was just a one time thing. Just thinking back - the reversion to the 532 has always ended in disaster. Lambert switching to the 532 was waving the white flag despite the one good performance (Liverpool away with the Weimann backheel). I don't remember in the championship years since Bruce doesn't care about tactics but the same thing then happened under Deano. Went with his 5 back to try and accommodate all his inform CB's (Mings, Hause, and Konsa at the time) and despite getting a win at United away - it all fell apart after that. Gerrard may not have switched to a 532 but he definitely defaulted to a "keep it tight, hit it long" strategy once Beale left and he forgoed playing it out the back.

I don't agree with @Risso's conclusion but Spurs match pissed me off more than getting hammered by Newcastle and Liverpool to start the season, our kind of half-ass displays Sheffield at home and any number of cup games and even getting beat again by Newcastle and United at home.

So I just sincerely hope it was a gamble by Unai and we're back to normal service despite all our injuries and suspensions.

[Teale's 'tache]

7 minutes ago, DJBOB said:

There's a lot in that and I know Unai asked for a lot but as soon as we set out the way we did, I knew it was rather inevitable what would happen. It seeps into the players mentality to just "hang on" and try to get a point.

For me - I'd have rather got smashed playing the way we know we play rather than get smashed playing something even the players didn't fully believe in.

I get that they're tired and fatigued but the last thing I would want to do if I was exhausted is somehow play a completely different system and style (cautious, defensive) instead of the one I've played all year.

So for as fatigued as we are, Unai didn't help the players out with his choices.

And I can only hope that it was just a one time thing. Just thinking back - the reversion to the 532 has always ended in disaster. Lambert switching to the 532 was waving the white flag despite the one good performance (Liverpool away with the Weimann backheel). I don't remember in the championship years since Bruce doesn't care about tactics but the same thing then happened under Deano. Went with his 5 back to try and accommodate all his inform CB's (Mings, Hause, and Konsa at the time) and despite getting a win at United away - it all fell apart after that. Gerrard may not have switched to a 532 but he definitely defaulted to a "keep it tight, hit it long" strategy once Beale left and he forgoed playing it out the back.

I don't agree with @Risso's conclusion but Spurs match pissed me off more than getting hammered by Newcastle and Liverpool to start the season, our kind of half-ass displays Sheffield at home and any number of cup games and even getting beat again by Newcastle and United at home.

So I just sincerely hope it was a gamble by Unai and we're back to normal service despite all our injuries and suspensions.

I feel for Unai, he's rolled with the punches and had to think on his feet since before a ball was kicked this season pretty much.

Plan A, the stuff we worked on in pre-season, most of that was out of the window with the Mings/Buendia/Ramsey injuries. Plan B served us well for a good while, as long as we had the players to play it, but without Kamara plan B is going to need to be adjusted or we are going to need a Plan C, I think that is where we are now and for the next few league games at least trying to find a solution that doesn't involve McGinn either. It's easy to say go out swinging, but we need to see the bigger picture, there's a good chance we do not have the energy levels/personnel to do that to a fresh Spurs team right now, which could possibly have ended in a worse scoreline. I prefer to be attacking, but it can't be for the sake of it, a good manager knows when pragmatism is required as well.

Maybe Unai has overthought it, maybe he did 'get it wrong' but at the moment he's trying to cook a recipe while missing several ingredients, he's going to get it wrong sometimes. 

I just hope he can find us yet another way and end what has been an incredible season on a high.